Very helpful.
But her outside edge was one of the best in the world, even if she wasn't able to land it many times. I think she never received an "e" for a lutz (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not sure) but she got just one edge call for her 3F in her 2010 Euros FS, but it was really not a bad lip, and she never made mistakes in it after that competition so I think it was just an accident...The lutz was never a stable, reliable jump for Kostner, so it is no surprise that she no longer does it. She used to use the entire length of the rink to set up the jump, and then she'd miss at least one out of three attempts.
Kostner never flutzed, but her lutz was never reliable.
Kostner never flutzed, but her lutz was never reliable.
But IIRC, Malinina had a leg wrap.
I do have a question. If Lutz is so important, and they want to encourage more ladies do them. How much base value should they raise to make it more attractive option given the depreciation of GOE scales?
That's a big "if" -- which is the premise behind this whole thread but not necessarily a valid one. Who says the lutz is so important that the rules should be designed to make it a deciding factor?
And, given the fact that it's very difficult for most women to do triple lutzes with correct takeoffs, should a triple flutz (clear attempt to take off from the outside edge, and clear failure to do so) be worth more or less than an intended triple flip?
Should the rules encourage or discourage skaters from attempting it at all if they can't do it right?
If we want to reward correct lutzes and not incorrect attempts, maybe add "clear outside edge takeoff" to the bullet points for positive GOE for that specific jump. But only for women? (What about pairs doing side-by-side 2Lz or 3Lz, then?)
That's a big "if" -- which is the premise behind this whole thread but not necessarily a valid one. Who says the lutz is so important that the rules should be designed to make it a deciding factor?
And, given the fact that it's very difficult for most women to do triple lutzes with correct takeoffs, should a triple flutz (clear attempt to take off from the outside edge, and clear failure to do so) be worth more or less than an intended triple flip?
Should the rules encourage or discourage skaters from attempting it at all if they can't do it right?
If we want to reward correct lutzes and not incorrect attempts, maybe add "clear outside edge takeoff" to the bullet points for positive GOE for that specific jump. But only for women? (What about pairs doing side-by-side 2Lz or 3Lz, then?)
Side by side double lutz is required in the junior pairs short program in some years.
On a side topic, I wasn't around when the COP were conceived, but I have always wondered from what 'exactly' did they assign different values for different jumps? Other than considering current scale of difficulty which I understand in relative values, but I never understood why Lutz is 6, why not 10, 100, or if 3A is so rare, why only 8.5, not 10, 100 etc. Or who decide Flip and Loop is only worth 0.2 difference? Is it from scarcity, technicality, speed, power, energy? What, Who decide and how? (this might be a different thread.)
Also does the current system allow new moves/types of jumps being invented like the first lutz, flip, salchow etc.
Finally, here is a list of all possible jumps by takeoff edge. Note that "natural" rotation refers to a jump that rotates in the same direction (e.g., counterclockwise) as the entrance edge, while "counter" rotation refers to the entrance edge being in the opposite sense to the jump rotation.
BO edge, natural rotation, no toe: loop, half loop, falling leaf
BO edge, counter rotation, no toe: toeless lutz (rare)
BI edge, natural rotation, no toe: salchow
BI edge, counter rotation, no toe: walley
BO edge, natural rotation, toe: toe loop, ballet jump
BO edge, counter rotation, toe: lutz
BI edge, natural rotation, toe: flip, split, stag
BI edge, counter rotation, toe: toe walley
FO edge, natural rotation, no toe: waltz, axel, one-foot axel
FO edge, counter rotation, no toe: ? (nobody does this)
FI edge, natural rotation, no toe: inside axel
FI edge, counter rotation, no toe: ? (nobody does this)
Maybe instead of a triple lutz, a double lutz/triple toe or double lutz/triple loop should be a required combo for junior ladies. I know it sounds easy, but it isn't. The skater would have to maintain enough speed after the double to pull off the triple. Also, they'd be forced to do the correct edge on the takeoff. In the free, they can do the triple lutz.
The only couple doing that is Duhmel and Radford, and as far as I can see they are not flutzers...but your suggestion should apply to hte others as well.
All very true.
The question is, is this really a problem, as the premise of this thread presupposes?