2012 GPF Pairs Short Program SP | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2012 GPF Pairs Short Program SP

icedinn

wishing ksenia/kirill happiness 4ever
On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Congrats to B/L! I've always been a fan. but they still need to hold it together in the long program. K/S can still rise up.
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
B/L should have got more -1 on the triple toe, they didn't fall but everything else about it was a mess. But V/T also should not have got a 10.00 in execution, that program was great but certainly not perfect.

I'm happy the other teams performed well except K/S who after five trips to the GPF have only finished 5th-three times and only one bronze medal. This bad performance really doesn't surprise me; they always perform bad here. They looked slow and nervous and it showed. But don't forget the last Olympic season M/T beat K/S at the GPF and it had no bearing on the rest of the season.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
I just watched B/L and don't actually understand the negative reaction here. Yes the SBS jump was awful, big surprise. Their twist was great and not crashy at all for once, their throw was great and not shaky at all for once, and they skated the first half of their footwork sequence with something resembling passion/listening to the music (though that had faded by the end). I am not surprised at all by their score considering what they scored for what I would call much worse efforts this season.
 

StellaCampo

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
I think this is unfair. Their SBS jumps used to be REALLY UNTHINKABLY bad, and are now better. Their better is still REALLY bad, but if you watch their LP from the 2010 Olys it is quite obvious they have improved a lot. It puzzles me why they struggle so much with them- I wonder if one of them has trouble counting with the music or what is going on.
ETA: I DO think they should recieve negative GOE on the jumps and don't think they should get credit in the form of positive GOE for improving or trying. But I don't think it is fair to say they are not trying or that they never attempted SBS jumps when obviously they are and have.

I think tolosai is a bit unfair to FlattFan. The issue he's raising is NOT whether B/L is TRYING or NOT TRYING. The issue is what they do may not be a real SBS jump even if they may be trying.

I was watching Raisport live and Franca Bianconi (B/H's coach) was saying (if I remember correctly) they (B/L) are so wide apart but that's how they chose to do it. I will double check what Franca actually said when a video is uploaded. So FlattFan may not be alone.

PS. I now watched the video (thanks to Mao88) and Bianconi did say B/L "strategically choose to do it this way so as not to create problems for themselves but this shouldn't attract (positive) value in terms of GOE".
 
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sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I just watched B/L and don't actually understand the negative reaction here. Yes the SBS jump was awful, big surprise. Their twist was great and not crashy at all for once, their throw was great and not shaky at all for once, and they skated the first half of their footwork sequence with something resembling passion/listening to the music (though that had faded by the end). I am not surprised at all by their score considering what they scored for what I would call much worse efforts this season.

I don't think B/L have crashy twist, In fact it was always one of their biggest GOE getters their lifts and their twists
I will give them credit that B/L triple twists are very nice and better than K/S potato sack twists
 

3T3T

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Country
Ireland
On the whole a well skated event and I agree with the placements if not the marks. Dissapointed for K/S but they are rightfully in last place, hopefully they put out a good LP and maybe move up. A good performance from V/T are deservedly in the lead, they have been a bit up and down for me this year, I don't want a COR performance in the LP. One of the best skates I have seen from B/L but do not think it deserves a 70+, I like them as a couple but their SBS jumps are really an issue for me, everything else is great.

Has Tong landed a triple jump this year? He is really struggling on the jumps. Good from the Canadians, I prefer MT/M, I like their style.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
On the whole a well skated event and I agree with the placements if not the marks. Dissapointed for K/S but they are rightfully in last place, hopefully they put out a good LP and maybe move up. A good performance from V/T are deservedly in the lead, they have been a bit up and down for me this year, I don't want a COR performance in the LP. One of the best skates I have seen from B/L but do not think it deserves a 70+, I like them as a couple but their SBS jumps are really an issue for me, everything else is great.

Has Tong landed a triple jump this year? He is really struggling on the jumps. Good from the Canadians, I prefer MT/M, I like their style.

No Tong has a scheduled surgery for his knees but the Chinese Fed asked him to postpone the surgery
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
I think tolosai is a bit unfair to FlattFan. The issue he's raising is NOT whether B/L is TRYING or NOT TRYING. The issue is what they do may not be a real SBS jump even if they may be trying.

I was watching Raisport live and Franca Bianconi (B/H's coach) was saying (if I remember correctly) they (B/L) are so wide apart but that's how they chose to do it. I will double check what Franca actually said when a video is uploaded. So FlattFan may not be alone.

PS. I now watched the video (thanks to Mao88) and Bianconi did say B/L "strategically choose to do it this way so as not to create problems for themselves but this shouldn't attract (positive) value in terms of GOE".

I was actually replying to two comments though that wasn't clear. One was by you, where you said

"It's really unfair on other pairs who try to achieve the objective of SBS pair jumps ie closeness and synchro
and in the process may fail now and again."


I think B/L are an example of a pair who tries to achieve this (or at least the synchro) and does indeed fail now and again (or again and again). I don't think the comment you made could be reasonably interpreted as meaning anything but that B/L don't try to achieve closeness/synchro but if I somehow misunderstood, sorry.

Flattfan said "they never attempted a SBS jump their whole life"

I did specifically address the larger point (their SBS jumps themselves) and said that they should get negative GOE (I wouldn't go so far as to say they should get 0). I don't think, though, that I was unfair or misconstrued anything.
 

StellaCampo

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
I was actually replying to two comments though that wasn't clear. One was by you, where you said

"It's really unfair on other pairs who try to achieve the objective of SBS pair jumps ie closeness and synchro
and in the process may fail now and again."


I think B/L are an example of a pair who tries to achieve this (or at least the synchro) and does indeed fail now and again (or again and again). I don't think the comment you made could be reasonably interpreted as meaning anything but that B/L don't try to achieve closeness/synchro but if I somehow misunderstood, sorry.

Flattfan said "they never attempted a SBS jump their whole life"

I did specifically address the larger point (their SBS jumps themselves) and said that they should get negative GOE (I wouldn't go so far as to say they should get 0). I don't think, though, that I was unfair or misconstrued anything.

Thanks for your clarification, tolosai.
My point: Other pairs try, but B/L either can't or don't try. B/L shouldn't get positive GOE.
FlattFan: What they do is not SBS jump. The element should have no BV, no GOE.
Your point: B/L do try but often fail.
Bianconi: B/L strategically choose to jump far apart. No positive GOE.

PS! Apology to tolosai for my use of the word "unfair". I could have phrased my comment without it. But I appreciate both your and FlattFan's comments on this issue.
 
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FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I was actually replying to two comments though that wasn't clear. One was by you, where you said

"It's really unfair on other pairs who try to achieve the objective of SBS pair jumps ie closeness and synchro
and in the process may fail now and again."


I think B/L are an example of a pair who tries to achieve this (or at least the synchro) and does indeed fail now and again (or again and again). I don't think the comment you made could be reasonably interpreted as meaning anything but that B/L don't try to achieve closeness/synchro but if I somehow misunderstood, sorry.

Flattfan said "they never attempted a SBS jump their whole life"

I did specifically address the larger point (their SBS jumps themselves) and said that they should get negative GOE (I wouldn't go so far as to say they should get 0). I don't think, though, that I was unfair or misconstrued anything.

I'm not offended by it at all.
Here's the issue that most single skaters faced, if their spins travel by so and so, their spins get 0 points. Case and point: Rachael Flatt at SA 2009.
In the same vein, they should give 0 for SBS jump that are so far apart.

I believe B/L don't even bother with the SBS jump. Their coach probably tell them to just jump when they feel comfortable, never mind the partner. That is the only way they can land their jump. That is why their SBS jump should always be 0. They are not doing that element. Trying doesn't mean they did it.
 

oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I thought the top 2 were top notch and really enjoyable. Love B/L's twist and lifts and they were more expressive and powerful than ever. This SP really suits them. And of course, Tatiana and Maxim are fantastic and wonderfully smooth.

I hope Duhamel and Radford can move up to bronze.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Thanks for your clarification, tolosai.
My point: Other pairs try, but B/L either can't or don't try. B/L shouldn't get positive GOE.
FlattFan: What they do is not SBS jump. The element should have no BV, no GOE.
Your point: B/L do try but often fail.
Bianconi: B/L strategically choose to jump far apart. No positive GOE.

PS! Apology to tolosai for my use of the word "unfair". I could have phrased my comment without it. But I appreciate both your and FlattFan's comments on this issue.

I think you really made everyone's comments clear, thank you.

Like Flattfan I am not offended at all by any of this :) Just trying to make my point clear and share my opinion!
 

age20

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
could anybody kind enough to explain to me how come the PCS of V/T could be higher than Patrick?
I know it's uncomparable considering different disiplines, however I assume the standard for PCS, for example skating skills, should be more or less the same.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Finally watched all the programs. V/T truly remind me of a prostitute and her pimp in the way they execute this program. That is honestly the vibe I get from their characterizations and facial expressions. I know this may be a borderline inappropriate thing to post but I really mean it. It is seriously skeezy and in my opinion keeps getting worse. I would not give them high PCS for this.

For an example see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7BaaTlmuEs#t=6m04s
 
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Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Finally watched all the programs. V/T truly remind me of a prostitute and her pimp in the way they execute this program. That is honestly the vibe I get from their characterizations and facial expressions. I know this may be a borderline inappropriate thing to post but I really mean it. It is seriously skeezy and in my opinion keeps getting worse. I would not give them high PCS for this.

For an example see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7BaaTlmuEs#t=6m04s

I totally agree. Also the way he touched her at the 1:05 in the same clip you posted.. Feels gross. Im tired of their talent being wasted over an over again with crappy programs. Tatiana has always been my favourite pair skater, she is so delicate and lyrical, but it is never emphasized in their programs. I guess Im more on S/S wagon this season. Please, just change the costumes!!!
 
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