2012 GPF Pair's Free Program LP | Page 6 | Golden Skate

2012 GPF Pair's Free Program LP

suzukifan27

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
I would like to ask those who especially loves pair skating - does the quality of a throw depend on a man's technique, the way he throws a lady? I'm asking because it's strange for me to see Tanya messing throws - she used to be a strong-strong skater... But I'm not a huge fan of pair skatin g, so I don't know technical details of pairs elements.

She has never been 100% solid with throws. When she was with her last partner, Tanya frequently made mistakes on throws including step-outs, touch-downs, etc.
 

mousepotato

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
I remember Trankov himself falling after throwing Mukhortova in 2010 (either the Olympics or Worlds).

That was at the 2010 Worlds, at the Olympics he fell on a 3T, just like today.

What the hell happened!
I am thrilled for B&L but I don't understand the scores for K&S and V&T. :confused:

I agree!

:eek:

V/T's fall on the throw was really scary! I'm so glad that nobody was hurt. She could have stepped on him, and he saved her from falling by grabbing her leg I guess. But that being said, their score is a real joke. How could they get 130+ with that skate? I think P/T was robbed. Both Russian team had sub-par skate. V/T did great other than the falls, but those are solid major falls. B/L were messy throughout although they did almost everything. Can't understand the score any more.

K/S were robbed big time! After watching their program I believe more and more that it is very important which team(s) the federation promote. K/S's program is superior in choreography, that last lift alone is to die for, and they executed it cleanly and nicely. Definitely the best among the three Russian pair today.

I agree with this and I'm also happy no one was hurt.

Savchenko/Szolkowy just won NRW Trophy. Their FS score was 133.97 points with mistakes on both sbs jumps. I know you can't compars scores across events, but I wouldn't count them out to repeat.

S/S only missed the GPF because she was sick at the TEB, it's too bad one gold can't get you in by default, they would have easily won here. (Although on a side note I hate their new fs costumes!)

I would like to ask those who especially loves pair skating - does the quality of a throw depend on a man's technique, the way he throws a lady? I'm asking because it's strange for me to see Tanya messing throws - she used to be a strong-strong skater... But I'm not a huge fan of pair skating, so I don't know technical details of pairs elements.

Yes, the man is one part of the criteria the judges are supposed to look at, but hey don't. Tong has the stupidest throw technique and they always get good marks if Pang lands it.

This being said, it was just one competition and anything can happen at Nationals, Euros/4CC and Worlds.
 

adamanna

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
She has never been 100% solid with throws. When she was with her last partner, Tanya frequently made mistakes on throws including step-outs, touch-downs, etc.

hmmmm, I remember her as a solid skater, it was always Morozov who frustrated me when they did SBS jumps. I guess my memory could fail me, I think I'd go through protocols... The thing is that I looked some various performances of Muhortova-Trankov, and I she fell from the throws as well. And one of the performances was commentated by TAT, and she said that Masha fell because of him, he did the throwing in a wrong way.
Anyway, even if my impression is wrong and Trankov does not have technical issues with his throws - he definitely has a head problem. This way they will never get any gold at Worlds or Olympics. He reminds me of Jeremy Abbott((

Yes, the man is one part of the criteria the judges are supposed to look at, but hey don't. Tong has the stupidest throw technique and they always get good marks if Pang lands it.

This being said, it was just one competition and anything can happen at Nationals, Euros/4CC and Worlds.

It's not just one competition, and not just one season even. it's a trend I'm afraid
Anyway, I'm hoping for the best for this team, because I want Volosozhar to win:rolleye:
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
She has never been 100% solid with throws. When she was with her last partner, Tanya frequently made mistakes on throws including step-outs, touch-downs, etc.
No, she has not been 100%, but she was very solid. Additionally, most of her mistakes in throws were coming from the partner - often she was thrown with too much power. (Stas was quite a powerful guy ;)).


Anyway, I'm hoping for the best for this team, because I want Volosozhar to win:rolleye:

I dont care about Trankov, but I also want her to win!! She is an exquisite pair skater.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
No, she has not been 100%, but she was very solid. Additionally, most of her mistakes in throws were coming from the partner - often she was thrown with too much power. (Stas was quite a powerful guy;)).
I know Stas wasn't all that elegant, but because he was so strong, their lifts were amazing. Obviously there are things that Tatiana does better now that she's skating with Trankov, but not everything.

I dont care about Trankov, but I also want her to win!! She is an exquisite pair skater.
I don't particularly care for either of her partners, though I somewhat prefer Stas because he wasn't whiny and didn't have tacky taste in music and programs. Anyway, she is very deserving of some good results, but I wish the programs were better... I say they should give her a medal on her own :p
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
I know Stas wasn't all that elegant, but because he was so strong, their lifts were amazing. Obviously there are things that Tatiana does better now that she's skating with Trankov, but not everything.


I don't particularly care for either of her partners, though I somewhat prefer Stas because he wasn't whiny and didn't have tacky taste in music and programs. Anyway, she is very deserving of some good results, but I wish the programs were better... I say they should give her a medal on her own :p

Oh, I agree that none of their programs do justice to her skills and presence. I kept repeating that they deserve much better programs. An original concept that is not tacky. A program that shows Tanya more and somehow 'silences' Trankov's sometimes annoying expression (which together with mustache in the SP made me feel not watching that program at all). I think a 'calm', lyrical program could work for them.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Oh, I agree that none of their programs do justice to her skills and presence. I kept repeating that they deserve much better programs. An original concept that is not tacky. A program that shows Tanya more and somehow 'silences' Trankov's sometimes annoying expression (which together with mustache in the SP made me feel not watching that program at all). I think a 'calm', lyrical program could work for them.
Absolutely! I know Trankov has spoken about the "lyrical snot" he had to skate with Mukhortova, but personally I thought Vasiliev was right in having them do that; it's a far better fit for his style than the melodramatic/vulgar stuff he's doing now. Nobody Home was especially good because he did get to do some drama but it wasn't over the top.

I thought Tatiana was really good in the Pearl Harbor program she and Stas did their last two seasons, but I don't think something like that would suit Trankov.
 

3T3T

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Country
Ireland
I just don't get the marking in this competition at all. I would have K/S winning the free, it was the best they have performed in a long time and by far the best performance of the night. The SBS jumps were much better than what they have shown this season. Yet they end the free, nearly 10pts down on B/L and V/T. Just crazy, I think the writing is on the wall for them, but I really hope I am wrong. Russian nationals will be interesting.

I enjoyed B/L, apart from the SBS jumps (as usual) they performed really well and it built to a good end. V/T were very lucky to win this, I liked the performance until the mistakes starting happening but they were way overmarked. It's clear the judges love them but they are not going to get away with this level of performance for ever. I think inflation is starting to wear of for him this year, the same could happen to V/T

I would have MT/M ahead of D/R. P/T put out their best perfomance of the season but it just strikes me as the olympic programme recycled. I hope all this competiting will not do long term damage to his knee.
 

StellaCampo

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
I just don't get the marking in this competition at all. I would have K/S winning the free, it was the best they have performed in a long time and by far the best performance of the night. The SBS jumps were much better than what they have shown this season. Yet they end the free, nearly 10pts down on B/L and V/T. Just crazy, I think the writing is on the wall for them, but I really hope I am wrong. Russian nationals will be interesting.

It's so strange. I was, as a lot of you were, watching it live on an on-line Russian channel and right after the first (I think) throw jump the connection went, which was not restored until the last element(s). Judging from K/S's emotional embrace and audience reaction I thought it must have gone really well...until the score came up. I didn't know what had happened. There were no deductions for falls, really puzzled. I see from the protocol that their jump content was weak and the lifts, which I didn't see, weren't level 4. I don't know what it is. They seem to have this ability to grab your heart but somehow technically always fail to deliver. Since their qualities are not measurable and their shortcomings are, they are doomed.

I now want to cheer for D/R. Their approach is more rational, quantifiable and measurable. I think that's the only way to beat this scoring system. Even Interpretation can be handled this way - match the rise and fall of the music, particular notes, etc, ie the musical score, with the highlights in elements and transitions. You can, no SHOULD, do it on paper.

For some time I have had this funny feeling that the protocol has this uncanny similarity to a segmental profit & loss account. You need the mind of an accountant who can do balance sheet control and profit maximisation, knowing the limiting factors in the human resources (ie skaters) etc, etc.

Just don't think about beauty, poetry, fantasia, of figure skating.
 
Last edited:

rvi5

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
As I mentioned in another thread, the ISU could be trying to protect the integrity of Figure Skating as a sport. Some aspects of entertainment are not related to sport, but rather performing art. Performing art often can not be easily measured in quantifiable numbers, because it is typically very subjective. On a ballet discussion board, someone once posed the question whether ballet was a sport. Most members agreed it was not, but was instead fine art. One member further suggested the definition of sports included the lack of subjective judging. Although there are ballet competitions, it is very subjective.

Certainly beauty, poetry, and fantasia can be a part of figure skating. However, the entertainment needs to be built on top of a "solid" skating foundation (view the entertainment as added fluff). Skaters should not depend on the entertainment to win competitions over skating skills. This may be what happened to W/P in ice dance. After last season, they said they had been searching for another audience friendly program. However, it would appear the judges felt they neglected the skating content. Some skaters can perform a solid skating program, but lacking in emotional entertainment. Others can produce a very entertaining program which lacks satisfactory skating. However the best skaters can do both (unfortunately, they may be a minority)
 
Last edited:

Ilvskating

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
ITA! Something that can showcase her classy lines, and theirs to give Trankov some credit. I never though Trankov as a great skater before he paired up with V, and I always love V. However she can't do sexy. I would think even she were showgirls outfit she would still look like a lady. Trankov always comes across as arrogant, angry/bad tempered spoiled brat. When I watch their LP, after the big fall of that throw, it looked like if V didn't motherly coaxed/encouraged him, he wouldn't continue.


Oh, I agree that none of their programs do justice to her skills and presence. I kept repeating that they deserve much better programs. An original concept that is not tacky. A program that shows Tanya more and somehow 'silences' Trankov's sometimes annoying expression (which together with mustache in the SP made me feel not watching that program at all). I think a 'calm', lyrical program could work for them.
 

yqs100

On the Ice
Joined
May 21, 2009
The athletes can take a rest in 2014 sochi,,, and ISU please reward the gold to V/T directly,,,,

save TIME, MONEY and ENERGY,,,, and everyone will be happy...


Then 2014 world champions lets have a real battle.....
 

tdnuva

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I wish the other couples wouldn't go to Sochi 2014 and each of the Russians were medaled, in any kind of order the Russian Fedration wanted.

Is this meant to be ironic? Seeing no emoticon in this post I am not sure. And probably certain people really would want that.

What I never understood and probably never will is how someone can be glad about a victory when it was cause of no competition or flawed judging. To me that would be no joy... so - is it all about money? There are so few skaters who really earn a mentionable amount of money, I honestly can't see V&T becoming a member of that group.
 
Top