2014 Olympics: Asada vs. Kim | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2014 Olympics: Asada vs. Kim

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MiRé

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Nov 12, 2012
Yes, Yuna is doing 3lz-3t, so in the SP that makes for a very ambitious program with the 3f. But in the FS, apart from the 3lz-3t, the rest of her planned jumps and combinations aren't big ones - she repeats 3s instead of 3f, and her other combos are 3s-2t and 2a-2t-2lo. I know not doing 3lo is likely the reason she is not doing a 2a-3t or 3-1/2lo-3s sequence, but she still isn't doing them. Other ladies may not being doing a 3lz-3t but are still trying for 7 triples in the FS, putting tougher combos in the 2nd half, repeating 2 of the harder triples or doing two combos with 3t on the end. To me, Yuna's 3lz-3t is what makes her different from everyone else. Take away her 3lz-3t and her program content is as watered down as many posters complain Mao, Ashley, Carolina's are. Yuna has one really good, hard combination which is giving her an edge for now, along with her PCS, but as we're seeing with the men, that could change. Yuna's jump layouts are comparable to someone like Patrick's, while Gracie and some of the Russian girls is more like Hanyu or Javi. Thing is, we might see more ladies try harder content knowing Yuna's back, and if that happens, PCS will likely increase if they are successful with hard content, and Yuna may not be the clear frontrunner anymore.

Regarding Liza's PCS, I think they are the way they are now because she is not the clear Russian number 1, Russia has a wealth of talented ladies to choose from so right now they don't need to be promoting Tuk as the main hope for Sochi because others could still do better. If Leonova, Sotnikova, and the Polinas continue to struggle, Julia is still dealing with injuries, then it may be more clear Liza is Russia number 1, and if that is the case, there will be more attention and as long as she skates well, her PCS will likely be better. Liza's TES is keeping her afloat for now, but where she isn't so strong in spins, and ice coverage is somewhat limited and body type not ideal compared to others, Fed might be holding off on backing her completely to see if someone else can't do better in time for Sochi. But if she can start skating clean SPs and keep up the 7 triple FS, and others continue to struggle, I think her scores will improve.

You may be right, but given the fact that none of the top ladies even attempt 3LZ+3T, actually they really can't land clearly without UR or Edge violation, Yuna is pretty safe. Liza is a different case, but where the line draws is from their skating abilities and artistry. As you've mentioned, her PCS is low, and sorry to say, but I don't think she'll improve by the time Sochi comes. I think artistry comes "naturally" rather than being taught.

Yuna's FS is (i think) the most ambitious one compared to other women in the GPF. Yuna's program ties every jump and she executes them well. You have to consider GOE as part of this "battle" amongst skaters because it really can make a difference, and Yuna, as you know from Vancouver, receives high GOE.


Also, Yuna's interview explains she may be changing her jumps, so it's too early to conclude her repertoire is not ambitious. But we'll see :p
Asked whether she might consider adding a triple loop to her repertoire, Kim said only, "If there is room for improvement, I will change some jumps."
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Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Goodness! Does the existence of this thread test your patience with the human race as sorely as the other one does? ;)
Well, let's analyze this important issue as the reasonable people that we are. The other thread has baseless criticism of COP which is equally annoying as "Yuna vs Mao"... But this thread also has olympic games, outrageous statements, and a poster that asks another poster what jump layout has Mao if he considers Yuna's layout "not that ambitious" even though that another poster said in the same post that Mao's layout is "really weak", so it makes me wonder if this is reading incomprehension or worse. Of course, I also won't even try to ask, why exactly Mao's layout is "really weak", because it would imply asking what would be considered "really strong"... I don't think I'll like the answer.

So, this thread is basically 3 times worse for my patience than another.

Loosen up; it'll do you some good.
No.

Useless, sure. But really, discussing anything figure skating can be considered "useless". This thread is for speculation about skating veterans, newbies, and up-and-comers who may qualify for the Olympic season next year. It's fun to compare a skater's strengths and weaknesses as well as what they can improve on and guessing what they might add or take out in programs.
Well, I guess if they actually did that, it could be fun or even useful, but instead I doubt they even try to comprehend each other.

Anyway, if you though this thread was useless, then why bother coming in here and posting at all? :disapp:
Because I have too much ego, of course.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Eh. Maybe Shizuka Arakawa can come back and give everyone a run for their money. I hear she does a mean 3Lz-3L now. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXasiY2TwBQ&t=0m34s

In all seriousness though, I'd have to agree with prettykeys. While a good rivalry makes the sport more enjoyable to watch, the Mao-Yuna rivalry has been super-charged with political/national aspects for so long ...

Anyway,
**Mao? Always a contender in my book! Both footwork sequences in this year's programs are just so fun to watch. I hope she keeps them up for next year!
**I think Ashley Wagner is definitely a contender. John Nicks had helped her so much with confidence and pacing herself. I hope she manages to get a 3/3 under her belt or at least upgrade the 2A/2T to a 2A/3T.
**Carolina is another major factor. She's shown that, in the past, she's been able to produce 3/3, 3/3/2, and even 3/3/3 (in practice). If she's recovered from last year's injury well enough and trains properly, I think she can get those back.
** With all this talk about the Russian ladies and puberty, it's really all just a guessing game. They've shown that they're willing to try 3/3s and Julia has some insane positions for spins that will surely garner her +levels and +GOE.
**There are also some up-and-comers as well. Gracie Gold, Katelyn Osmond have produced good programs this year. Gracie had been known to attempt 3/3 and 3/3/3s in practice, so don't count her out!
**Or maybe one of the "veterans", like Mirai Nagasu can pull a 2010-AkikoSuzuki and surprise the heck out of everyone like she did on the GP circuit in the 2009-2010 season.
 
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gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
If Liza wins Russian nationals or even wins a world medal which is extremely dobtful her pcs is not going to go from 53 to 63 and would need to be like 66 to go to Mao Carolina or Yuna level. The fact is that no one needs a 3f3t or anything like that. If Yuna can keep doing 3lz 3t and have it be consistent then maybe it will be needed. It's far more likely that yuna stops doing 3/3 than all of a sudden Mao or Carolina start doing them.
 

creme cup

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
I'm kind of waiting for a new star to pop up. The event is more than a year away, so there is always the chance.
Talking of Yuna and Mao, assuming they both do clean programs, Yuna will be the winner again.
Mao will have to improve her toe jumps(Lutz, Flip) OR bring back 3A to beat Yuna in TES.
But we never know what will happen. As I said, the event is more than a year away!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Just for the sake of conversation, let's just look at the BV as planned by some of the skaters. You can see my work below.

Won't make any comments, just let you read and discuss.


***
Mao Asada:
3Lo 5.10
2A-3T 7.50
3F 5.30
3Z 6.00
FCCSP4 3.50
3S - 4.2
3L-2L-2L- 9.57x
CCoSp4 3.50
3F+2Lo 7.81x
FCSp4 3.20
StSq4 3.90
ChSq1 2.00
Total: 61.58
Actual BV at GPF: 55.78

Yuna Kim:
3Z-3T 10.10
3F 5.3
FCCoSP4 3.5
3S 4.2
StSq4 3.90
3Zx 6.60
2A-2T-2Lx 7.15
3S-2Tx 6.05
LSp4 2.70
ChSq1 2.00
2Ax 3.63
CCoSp4 3.50
Total: 58.63
Actual at NRW: 51.88

Akiko Suzuki
3F-2T-2L 8.40
2A-3T 7.40
3Z 6.00
FCsp4 3.20
StSq4 3.90
CCoSp4 3.50
3Fx 5.83
3L-2Tx 7.04
3S 4.62
3Lx 5.61
ChSq1 2.00
FCoSp4 3.50
Total: 61.00
Actual at GPF: 51.97

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
3Z-3T 10.10
3Z - 6.00
3F - 5.30
LSp4 - 2.70
StSq3 - 3.30
2A-3Tx - 8.14
3S-2T-2L - 8.03
FSSP4- 3.00
3Lox 5.61
ChSq 2.00
2Ax 3.63
CCosp 4 3.5
Total: 61.31
Actual: 60.31

Ashley Wagner
3F-2T-2T 7.90
2A-2T 4.60
3S 4.2
FSsp4 3.0
LSp4 2.70
3Lx 5.61
3Zx 6.60
3L+2A SEQx - 7.39
StSq3 - 3.30
3Fx 5.83
ChSq1 2.00
CCoSp4 3.50
Total: 56.63
Actual at GPF: 51.80
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Yes maos jump content is very very weak in the scale of what is possible and done by others sometimes but the 66 pcs speaks for itself as well as the spin and step scores Mao gets.

Like Liza and her 53 pcs means she would have to do like 2 quads to be competitive or triple Axels or something.

Liza's PCS is so poor that she must do 2 triple axels next season imo
 

bebevia

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
I expected so much from Mirai after seeing her at the last Olympics; pressures get the best of her performance and CHANCE for improvement. The same when I saw Liza last year; might be some chance to get there, if she greatly improves her PCS (I still see a potential, but it's been a long wait) and her speed. Julia... if she gains artistry without losing her jumps, will be a HARD contender; but unlikely so fast enough for Sochi. I love all three, still expect a lot.

However, now that a few mentioned 3A and quads, I'm fascinated to say that I'm all for cheering Liza doing quads.

LIZA FOR QUADS--! Who's with me?
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I expected so much from Mirai after seeing her at the last Olympics; pressures get the best of her performance and CHANCE for improvement. The same when I saw Liza last year; might be some chance to get there, if she greatly improves her PCS (I still see a potential, but it's been a long wait) and her speed. Julia... if she gains artistry without losing her jumps, will be a HARD contender; but unlikely so fast enough for Sochi. I love all three, still expect a lot.

However, now that a few mentioned 3A and quads, I'm fascinated to say that I'm all for cheering Liza doing quads.

LIZA FOR QUADS--! Who's with me?

doing quad is out of the question
but 3A could be an option for her next season to get a bigger score compensating from her low PCS, her 2A are still huge and gets big distance
 

creme cup

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Just for the sake of conversation, let's just look at the BV as planned by some of the skaters. You can see my work below.

Won't make any comments, just let you read and discuss.

Actually I heard(don't remember the source) that Yuna's Layback spin is planned for level3. Obviously she's not doing Biellmann this season.
And we have to take edge calls into consideration.
 

trains

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
I'm kind of waiting for a new star to pop up. The event is more than a year away, so there is always the chance.
Talking of Yuna and Mao, assuming they both do clean programs, Yuna will be the winner again.
Mao will have to improve her toe jumps(Lutz, Flip) OR bring back 3A to beat Yuna in TES.
But we never know what will happen. As I said, the event is more than a year away!

What about Kaitlyn Osmond of Canada? She is 16 and this year has won Nebelhorn, Skate Canada, and just had an amazing skate at the qualifying competition for Canadian nationals called the Challenge. She scored 198.70 which would have won worlds last year or the GPF this year. Her technical score was 66.75
Here is her scoresheet:
http://results.skatecanada.ca/2012-2013/2013CHALL/2013CHALLSrWomenFreesegJudgesDetails.pdf
and here is her short program scoresheet:
http://results.skatecanada.ca/2012-2013/2013CHALL/2013CHALLSrWomenShortsegJudgesDetails.pdf
 
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sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
What about Kaitlyn Osmond of Canada? She is 16 and this year has won Nebelhorn, Skate Canada, and just had an amazing skate at the qualifying competition for Canadian nationals called the Challenge. She scored 198.70 which would have won worlds last year or the GPF this year. Her technical score was 66.75
Here is her scoresheet:
http://results.skatecanada.ca/2012-2013/2013CHALL/2013CHALLSrWomenFreesegJudgesDetails.pdf

thats with inflation the highest she will place is top 5 if she does well
her pcs wont be that high Yuna, Mao, Carolina and Ashley will score higher and beat her in PCS
 

bebevia

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
doing quad is out of the question
but 3A could be an option for her next season to get a bigger score compensating from her low PCS, her 2A are still huge and gets big distance
Actually, even 3A is nonsense. I'm hoping she manages 3/3 good. But cheering for one is allowed.
 

camion

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
I wouldn't rule out Elizaveta. She's getting used to her growth spurt, but she's exciting to watch when she's on. I wouldn't rule out any of the Russian ladies for that matter. They are all talented, but haven't quite been able to break through as a lot of people thought they would. Even though Liza & Julia had spurts of grand prix success. They're not as polished in the presentation side of things, but they got the jumps. Plus, home-court advantage. I also really like Zijun and want a keep an eye out for her progress up to the Olympics.
 

babayaga

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
oh good. I'm not alone in feeling that way!

Make it three of us. I read that Japanese and Korean media already started Yuna vs Mao debates and it makes me sick. I would support Yuna vs Osmond rivalry discussion with all my heart :)
 

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Make it three of us. I read that Japanese and Korean media already started Yuna vs Mao debates and it makes me sick. I would support Yuna vs Osmond rivalry discussion with all my heart :)

Actually, Korean Media doesn't account Mao in consideration. Korean media states that Yuna's rivalry is in fact herself ;)
 
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