2014 Olympics: Asada vs. Kim | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2014 Olympics: Asada vs. Kim

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icedinn

wishing ksenia/kirill happiness 4ever
On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
That would be fun to see again.
Is yu na planning to go to sochi?
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
If Liza wins Russian nationals or even wins a world medal which is extremely dobtful her pcs is not going to go from 53 to 63 and would need to be like 66 to go to Mao Carolina or Yuna level. The fact is that no one needs a 3f3t or anything like that. If Yuna can keep doing 3lz 3t and have it be consistent then maybe it will be needed. It's far more likely that yuna stops doing 3/3 than all of a sudden Mao or Carolina start doing them.

Look at Ashley Wagner's PCS from a season or two back compared to now, it's about a 10 point increase and all that has really changed is she's skating more consistently now and is US number 1. She has improved, yes, the jumps are cleaner now than before, her confidence helps the performance, etc, but really, her PCS increase is really due to her status as number 1 US lady. If Liza can show she's the best Russian, her PCS scores will improve too as long as she continues to land the jumps. Start order also matters. Liza skated after Gao got 51 for PCS, so her 53 basically shows that the judges thought she was 2 points in PCS better than Gao. When Gao skated 7 out of 10 at SA, her PCS was almost 57, so in that situation, Liza being 2 points higher would be a 59. This is also why I think Osmond got the score she did at SC. She skated well in the SP so then she got to skate after great skaters with high PCS like Suzuki so the judges just gave her comparable PCS because by the time she skated, they had already become comfortable giving those marks out, and where she skated pretty well, there was no need to dock her way down for PCS. This is also why Gao, despite skating good FS at each of her competitions this season, got much lower scores, particularly PCS, at TEB and GPF. Saving big marks for the last few skaters isn't that uncommon, so if you happen to be one of the last skaters to skate, chances are your PCS will be more generous than if you are having to set the bar, or are following skaters who aren't that strong or didn't skate that well.

I don't think Liza can get PCS of 63+ internationally this season, no, but she can get up to around 60 if she can just skate a good SP and have a good draw for the FS. I know that sounds bad and makes PCS seem like a joke score, but it really is noticeable and true if you pay attention to things. Mirai's PCS were lower than Liza the GP season before she was 4th at the Olympics, and her SP PCS at Olympics wasn't great either because she skated so early, but then she made the final flight, skated last, and skated well, and her PCS went to 60. Yes she had improved, but had Mirai been in the penultimate group for the FS, I bet her score would have been quite a bit lower.
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Liza is a short girl but she gained weight thus making her slow on the ice
if she could lose weight net season she could build more speed her PCS should increase

IMO she is not going to lose weight, at least not healthily. She has to instead try to maintain this weight and get more flattering costumes for it, and work hard to stabilize her jumps at the weight she is.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Look at Ashley Wagner's PCS from a season or two back compared to now, it's about a 10 point increase and all that has really changed is she's skating more consistently now and is US number 1. She has improved, yes, the jumps are cleaner now than before, her confidence helps the performance, etc, but really, her PCS increase is really due to her status as number 1 US lady. If Liza can show she's the best Russian, her PCS scores will improve too as long as she continues to land the jumps. Start order also matters. Liza skated after Gao got 51 for PCS, so her 53 basically shows that the judges thought she was 2 points in PCS better than Gao. When Gao skated 7 out of 10 at SA, her PCS was almost 57, so in that situation, Liza being 2 points higher would be a 59. This is also why I think Osmond got the score she did at SC. She skated well in the SP so then she got to skate after great skaters with high PCS like Suzuki so the judges just gave her comparable PCS because by the time she skated, they had already become comfortable giving those marks out, and where she skated pretty well, there was no need to dock her way down for PCS. This is also why Gao, despite skating good FS at each of her competitions this season, got much lower scores, particularly PCS, at TEB and GPF. Saving big marks for the last few skaters isn't that uncommon, so if you happen to be one of the last skaters to skate, chances are your PCS will be more generous than if you are having to set the bar, or are following skaters who aren't that strong or didn't skate that well.

I don't think Liza can get PCS of 63+ internationally this season, no, but she can get up to around 60 if she can just skate a good SP and have a good draw for the FS. I know that sounds bad and makes PCS seem like a joke score, but it really is noticeable and true if you pay attention to things. Mirai's PCS were lower than Liza the GP season before she was 4th at the Olympics, and her SP PCS at Olympics wasn't great either because she skated so early, but then she made the final flight, skated last, and skated well, and her PCS went to 60. Yes she had improved, but had Mirai been in the penultimate group for the FS, I bet her score would have been quite a bit lower.

Lol it's true that pcs is not supposed to work this way. Like last year Liza was not even eligible for seniors like euros and worlds and her pcs was better. So now because of the situation where she is eligible she needs to establish herself as number one but the only way to really do that I think is to win euros or place first among all Russians there. She needs to work on not bombin short programs but becoming Russian champ will be difficult. I think it may be radionovas or lipnitskayas this year. Everyone is eligible!!

I don't really remember the scores...I'll have to look for that information. Still I hope for her.

Yeah she barely beat rochette in the fs and was lucky not to place 3rd in that segment because of her popped triple toe
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
I completely forgot about Gracie Gold!

Yuna, heck, she just competed once just a few days ago, and while her toe jumps were more or less intact (though looking a bit Kanakoesque), the spins weren't there, the stamina wasn't there.
Mmm...I've noticed lately that a lot of Maobots are deluding themselves into believing that YuNa's developed a hammertoe of sorts, but, just...no.

Unless you meant to say that both Kanako and YuNa have nice height and rotation on their 3Flips, which I would agree with, and is more than can be said of a certain someone's underrotated 3Flips as of late...she may have escaped < dinges, but they were certainly not fully rotated.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
IMO she is not going to lose weight, at least not healthily. She has to instead try to maintain this weight and get more flattering costumes for it, and work hard to stabilize her jumps at the weight she is.

i do agree whoever does her costumes need to be fired
considering Liza's body type one should never let her wear a poofy costume, it makes her look heavy and bloated especially on TV/screens
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
I completely forgot about Gracie Gold!


Mmm...I've noticed lately that a lot of Maobots are deluding themselves into believing that YuNa's developed a hammertoe of sorts, but, just...no.

Unless you meant to say that both Kanako and YuNa have nice height and rotation on their 3Flips, which I would agree with, and is more than can be said of a certain someone's underrotated 3Flips as of late...she may have escaped < dinges, but they were certainly not fully rotated.

It's by no means a hammer toe but she does lean a bit more than before on some of her jump take offs. I noticed that in her 3Lz combo and 3F in the short(but she did a gorgeous one in the LP). Her jumps are back but are not yet at the same quality as before. Still, by far, the best jumps in the current field. With more practice I believe she will have her jumps at the best quality possible. But you don't have to be a Maobot to notice the slight deterioration on her jumps which is perfectly normal for such a long period of time out of competition.
There is no need of comparison between Mao and Yuna's jumps, it's clear Yuna's are miles away better. Not to mention they always had completely different technique
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
But you don't have to be a Maobot to notice the slight deterioration on her jumps which is perfectly normal for such a long period of time out of competition.
No, but you do have to be a Maobot in order to make a comparison between one of the most egregious hammertoe-rs with one of the best female toe-jumpers currently out there (with only Carolina Kostner having a comparable quality of technique for toe jumps.)

There is no need of comparison between Mao and Yuna's jumps, it's clear Yuna's are miles away better. Not to mention they always had completely different technique
But there is a clear need to compare Kanako and YuNa's 3Flips? :laugh: It's just so...desperate.
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
@ Prettykeys:

I could easily show you screen shots comparing Vancouver Yuna with Dortmund 2012 Yuna and Skate Canada 2012 Kanako and show you exactly what I meant by Dortmund 2012 Yuna looking 'slightly Kanakoesque', but I wouldn't know where to put them to show you, so I'll have to explain using words.

Compared to Olympics, Yuna now really sinks deep into her knees when she takes off (like how Mao used to for her triple axel take-off, and like Kanako's now). In fact, her left knee is even more sunk down than Kanako's.
And another thing that's now similar to Kanako is that while Olympic Yuna used to keep her center of gravity in the middle of her body, now it's her left leg that is holding the weight, just like Kanako does it.
This results in both Dortmund 2012 Yuna and Kanako dropping their left shoulder forward as they prepare to toe pick.
And of course Yuna's toe pick isn't exactly a mule kick, and Kanako's got a really awful mule kick, but (while Yuna did always bend her toe pick knee) during the Olympics, her thigh was fairly parallel to the ice (relatively speaking), and now, her toe picking thigh is at more of an angle to the ice and she compensates for the dropped thigh by bending her knee a bit more, which makes it more mule-kick like than it was before.

So that's what I mean when I wrote that Yuna's jumps were now 'slightly Kanakoesque'.

Despite these technical issues, Yuna still managed to tack on a triple-toe (may have been under-rotated?) so that's still amazing that she managed to even attempt it after a year and 8 months away.

I am fairly certain that her she will get back to her old form within a few months.
 

creme cup

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Now Japanese media are all about Mao bringing back 3A to bring the rivalry on.
Seriously, the media have a lot to do with this overheated rivalry thing.
 

korean_rose

Spectator
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Yeah, and Japan doesn't care about Yuna either. I'd like links to the sources that say so. :confused:

See this (http://www.gasengi.com/main/board.php?bo_table=hanryu&wr_id=199096) where Asada Mai (Mao's elder sister) made comments on Yuna's NRW score. Now, I don't speak Japanese so I don't understand what the girl was saying exactly but judging by the subtitles (which is in Korean) and the following angry Koreans' comments, I can see that she is saying something like "I don't understand the high score when she made mistakes in Jump and fell during the program....Maybe the judges like her?...".

What a stupid thing to say, especially as Mao's sister. I think she, as Mao's sister, should be the last person to make this kind of comments on live TV show since her comments won't help her own sister...eventually. Let me quote a Korean proverb. If you spat while you are lying down it only falls on your face!
 
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gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Lol who is Mai say anything when Mao won a competition with 4 triples over the sp and lp?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
See this (http://www.gasengi.com/main/board.php?bo_table=hanryu&wr_id=199096) where Asada Mai (Mao's elder sister) made comments on Yuna's NRW score. Now, I don't speak Japanese so I don't understand what the girl was saying exactly but judging by the subtitles (which is in Korean) and the following angry Koreans' comments, I can see that she is saying something like "I don't understand the high score when she made mistakes in Jump and fell during the program....Maybe the judges like her?...".

What a stupid thing to say, especially as Mao's sister. I think she, as Mao's sister, should be the last person to make this kind of comments on live TV show since her comments won't help her own sister...eventually. Let me quote a Korean proverb. If you spat while you are lying down it only falls on your face!

How do you know that the video wasn't mistranslated? I'd like someone who speaks Japanese on these boards to watch the video and tell us what she actually said. I wouldn't be surprise if the translated took Mai's words out of context and made it sound more nasty then it actually was.
 

korean_rose

Spectator
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
How do you know that the video wasn't mistranslated? I'd like someone who speaks Japanese on these boards to watch the video and tell us what she actually said. I wouldn't be surprise if the translated took Mai's words out of context and made it sound more nasty then it actually was.

Good Q. I wish they mistranslated what Mao's sister said on live TV...but I doubt it somehow. It even appeared in one of the major Korean broadsheet: http://joongang.joinsmsn.com/article/457/10416457.html?ctg=1400&cloc=joongang|home|newslist1

And here's some more:

http://www.tvreport.co.kr/cindex.php?c=news&m=newsview&idx=300714
http://sports.media.daum.net/general/news/moresports/breaking/view.html?newsid=20130114171813004
http://sbscnbc.sbs.co.kr/read.jsp?pmArticleId=10000523793
http://www.hankyung.com/news/app/newsview.php?aid=201301141951l
http://newsmon.net/2013/01/14/17753
http://www.ilyo.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=88001


And good suggestion: someone should translate what she said on that TV show...
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009

I'm still skeptical. For all we know all those news sites took the translation at face value and didn't ask the hard questions. I don't know, I just can see something like this getting blown out of proposition.
 
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korean_rose

Spectator
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
I'm still skeptical. For all we know all those news sites took the translation at face value and didn't ask the hard questions. I don't know, I just can see something like this getting blown out of proposition.

a Japanese article (http://www.j-cast.com/2013/01/15161311.html) and its google translation (http://translate.google.com/transla...u=http://www.j-cast.com/2013/01/15161311.html) until someone can translate what the girl said exactly on telly (hopefully unbiased).
 

Laughing Man

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
See this (http://www.gasengi.com/main/board.php?bo_table=hanryu&wr_id=199096) where Asada Mai (Mao's elder sister) made comments on Yuna's NRW score. Now, I don't speak Japanese so I don't understand what the girl was saying exactly but judging by the subtitles (which is in Korean) and the following angry Koreans' comments, I can see that she is saying something like "I don't understand the high score when she made mistakes in Jump and fell during the program....Maybe the judges like her?...".

What a stupid thing to say, especially as Mao's sister. I think she, as Mao's sister, should be the last person to make this kind of comments on live TV show since her comments won't help her own sister...eventually. Let me quote a Korean proverb. If you spat while you are lying down it only falls on your face!

Well I'm Jpnse so I'll give you a full translation of the whole conversation the host of that show, guests and Mai were saying.

(After a video of Yuna on the podium at NRW)
Host: Um well...about Yuna-san...why is it that her scores are so good (all the time)?
Mai: Um...honestly, I don't know...why she gets such high scores, I do not know.
(laughter amongst the guests)
Mai: As a skater, I mean I used to compete before, but I don't know...I'd like to be the one asking why? Why is it?
Host: (That's kind of) mysterious...?
Mai: Maybe the judges are fond of her (skating)...
Host: That's what this (scores) are all about?
(laughter amongst the guests again)
Mai: I don't know...I think it's better not to comment on this matter.
Host: Ah!

I translated everything they said as directly as I could, so some of it may sound strange. As I native Jpnse speaker, I could sense some words being left out, though they were definitely meant to be in their words, so I added them in ( )s. Now, first of all, from the flow of the conversation, the host was obviously trying to make Mai say something negative about Yuna. That you can sense also from the other guests and commentators as they seemed to find something funny about all this (which I did not find amusing at all). Most Jpnse tv shows suck so I'm not defending them in any way. However, I will defend Mai, as the only thing she did here is to reply to a question concerning Yuna's scores, saying 'I don't know why'. And when she said 'maybe the judges like her', Mai was talking about Yuna's skating styles. She did not say anything like 'Yuna is being favored by the judges'. And she was the one who did not want to comment on about Yuna's scores, although it seems that the host wanted her to say more. Mai is a wise and considerate person. She has never said anything bad about other skaters in or out of Jpn, before and after she became a sport commentator who specializes mostly in figure skating (because of her background as a former competing skater...no need to have explained that, I guess!). Anyway, I do feel that this program itself was raising questions on Yuna's scores at NRW from the start. But Mai did not want to say much about Yuna so she was the one who stopped the conversation saying she'd rather not comment further. So, Yuna fans go on bashing this show as much as you want if that'll make your frustration go away, but Mai has done nothing wrong. Even these types of talk shows always have scripts on when and who are supposed to say whatever. The video they edited on Yuna winning NRW spotlighting mostly her mistakes was not a nice approach in introducing the news IMO. Still, not everyone knows that figure skating is not only about jumps. This program was not a show for a cable sport channel, but one which would be seen by many who probably only bother to watch figure skating in Olys. When a show has to deal with such viewers, they're going to ask questions which those viewers will be asking as well. How does a skater get the best score of the season (and they don't know it's unofficial, too), while he/she (in this case Yuna) has made obvious mistakes? That's what the viewers would want to know, so of course they'll call Mai or some other figure skating commentator as a guest and ask them the question. It's simply what tv is all about folks; mere show-biz, that's all! Oh, and do note that Mai does not appear in shows which discusses or casts figure skating news just because she's Mao's sister; Mai has been a professional commentator over the years now, so she was just doing her job. She could've said alot more on Yuna's scores just like the host was trying to make her do so, but she just said a few words, admitted she 'doesn't know' revealing how unprofessional she can be as a commentator, but did you ever imagine why she did that? She did that because she most likely felt that even as a commentator, since she is Mao's sister, she would not be the right person to be saying anything negative about the way the judges scored Yuna. She sacrificed a certain amount of her career as a commentator in order to step out of a discussion which concerns her sister's long time rival. So korean_rose honey, save your precious Korean proverbs for things more serious happening in the world. Don't take everything you hear from someone close to Mao, or someone who just happens to be Jpnse in the wrong way you want to. Plus, if what Mai said made you so angry, you should go listen to what some other figure skating commentators were saying about Yuna's scores in NRW; Chika Suguri (Fumie's baby sister) said that Yuna's scores are too high way out louder than this show did. But did the Korean media give a *** about her words?

This was just a case of a news show trying to attract attention by attempting to make Mai say something bad about the judges who scored Yuna. If there's anyone who did wrong, it was the director of this show and not Mai. What the hell is the big deal about what Mai said!? Those who can't see what was going on in this show even after reading my translation must be either suffering persecution complex or hallucinating. Mai did not spit on anyone, she refused to do so and avoided it from happening by appealing to the viewers that she's too stupid to understand why Yuna's scores are high even though she was a competing skater once. Satisfied? :laugh:

FYI, I'm no Yuna basher. I'm no fan, but I respected how well she did in NRW after a long break, and am happy that she's decided to return to competing. The sport is more fun to watch with Yuna in it. Now that she's back more of the other top girls will start challenging combos other than 3-2s or 3T-3Ts. I know that alot of my people would prefer not to think the same, but I believe Yuna is going to be one tough skater to beat at Worlds; although I'm not saying it's not possible.:cool:
 
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