2013 Japanese Nationals Ladies | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2013 Japanese Nationals Ladies

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
There is something fundamentally wrong with ladies skating right now and we saw a glimpse of it during the SP - the winner was someone who landed a Triple Toe + Double Toe combo and the 2nd place finisher merely did a single loop and one Triple, a Flip. Both skaters scored 60+ for such performance. Heck, in 1982, ladies could do better than that, if CoP was implemented back then.

Fastforward to the LP, Mao Asada eventually won the LP with 4 clean triples, not counting the Lutz because it received overall negative GOE and most likely a wrong edge take off. So a lady who merely landed 4 clean Triples not only won but with a score of 130+? Whereas the men went the complete different direction, the ladies are not stagnant, they are regressing and downright depressing to watch. For this sport to grow, the ladies cannot afford to produce champions who can be beaten by women 3 generations before them, even prior to the time of Midori Ito, that's just insane to think about in 2012.

The sad truth is, this Japanese Nationals is merely a reflection of the ill in ladies skating given the same phenomenon is observed elsewhere as well.

I pray that this situation will change soon.
 

sather

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
Oh my god! I love Kanako's LP sooooo much! Of course maybe it's because I'm a fan of Piazolla music but still, I love the arrangement and the choreography. It seems like she did a lot better in the second half of the program compared to the first half. What I like about her is that when it goes well on the ice, it appears on her face right away and it makes me smile. Although the downside is that she shows her nervousness on her face as well but I believe she can work on that :)

Funny thing is if you add their TES from SP and LP, the difference between Mao and Kanako is only 0.01 point. I don't want to imply anything here but it's just interesting.
 
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FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
There is something fundamentally wrong with ladies skating right now and we saw a glimpse of it during the SP - the winner was someone who landed a Triple Toe + Double Toe combo and the 2nd place finisher merely did a single loop and one Triple, a Flip. Both skaters scored 60+ for such performance. Heck, in 1982, ladies could do better than that, if CoP was implemented back then.

Fastforward to the LP, Mao Asada eventually won the LP with 4 clean triples, not counting the Lutz because it received overall negative GOE and most likely a wrong edge take off. So a lady who merely landed 4 clean Triples not only won but with a score of 130+? Whereas the men went the complete different direction, the ladies are not stagnant, they are regressing and downright depressing to watch. For this sport to grow, the ladies cannot afford to produce champions who can be beaten by women 3 generations before them, even prior to the time of Midori Ito, that's just insane to think about in 2012.

The sad truth is, this Japanese Nationals is merely a reflection of the ill in ladies skating given the same phenomenon is observed elsewhere as well.

I pray that this situation will change soon.

By that logic, Sasha Cohen landed maybe 3 clean triples to win some of her medal?
Michelle landed at max 4 clean triples to win her many World titles?
Kristi landed 2 clean triples to win her Olympics?

Get over it.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
There is something fundamentally wrong with ladies skating right now and we saw a glimpse of it during the SP - the winner was someone who landed a Triple Toe + Double Toe combo and the 2nd place finisher merely did a single loop and one Triple, a Flip. Both skaters scored 60+ for such performance. Heck, in 1982, ladies could do better than that, if CoP was implemented back then.

Fastforward to the LP, Mao Asada eventually won the LP with 4 clean triples, not counting the Lutz because it received overall negative GOE and most likely a wrong edge take off. So a lady who merely landed 4 clean Triples not only won but with a score of 130+? Whereas the men went the complete different direction, the ladies are not stagnant, they are regressing and downright depressing to watch. For this sport to grow, the ladies cannot afford to produce champions who can be beaten by women 3 generations before them, even prior to the time of Midori Ito, that's just insane to think about in 2012.

The sad truth is, this Japanese Nationals is merely a reflection of the ill in ladies skating given the same phenomenon is observed elsewhere as well.

I pray that this situation will change soon.

I agree. What is going on isn't good. You list a bunch of 6.0 results as a defense of what is going on in COP. How about a real lutz? How about jumps with positive GOE or jumps that are fully rotated. This is what is possible in COP so edge calls, negative GOE and underrotations don't have to be the case. Just because someone has to win doesn't mean the win is a good thing.
 

Riemann

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
There is something fundamentally wrong with ladies skating right now and we saw a glimpse of it during the SP - the winner was someone who landed a Triple Toe + Double Toe combo and the 2nd place finisher merely did a single loop and one Triple, a Flip. Both skaters scored 60+ for such performance. Heck, in 1982, ladies could do better than that, if CoP was implemented back then.

Fastforward to the LP, Mao Asada eventually won the LP with 4 clean triples, not counting the Lutz because it received overall negative GOE and most likely a wrong edge take off. So a lady who merely landed 4 clean Triples not only won but with a score of 130+? Whereas the men went the complete different direction, the ladies are not stagnant, they are regressing and downright depressing to watch. For this sport to grow, the ladies cannot afford to produce champions who can be beaten by women 3 generations before them, even prior to the time of Midori Ito, that's just insane to think about in 2012.

The sad truth is, this Japanese Nationals is merely a reflection of the ill in ladies skating given the same phenomenon is observed elsewhere as well.

I pray that this situation will change soon.

I agree. The past few years, the men have been progressing in most areas (not only jumps), but the ladies have become a mess when it comes to difficult elements, especially jumps. The artistic aspect of ladies skating has seen better days, too.
 
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mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
There is something fundamentally wrong with ladies skating right now and we saw a glimpse of it during the SP - the winner was someone who landed a Triple Toe + Double Toe combo and the 2nd place finisher merely did a single loop and one Triple, a Flip. Both skaters scored 60+ for such performance. Heck, in 1982, ladies could do better than that, if CoP was implemented back then.

Fastforward to the LP, Mao Asada eventually won the LP with 4 clean triples, not counting the Lutz because it received overall negative GOE and most likely a wrong edge take off. So a lady who merely landed 4 clean Triples not only won but with a score of 130+? Whereas the men went the complete different direction, the ladies are not stagnant, they are regressing and downright depressing to watch. For this sport to grow, the ladies cannot afford to produce champions who can be beaten by women 3 generations before them, even prior to the time of Midori Ito, that's just insane to think about in 2012.

The sad truth is, this Japanese Nationals is merely a reflection of the ill in ladies skating given the same phenomenon is observed elsewhere as well.

I pray that this situation will change soon.

I would recommend you to rewatch the competition again and look at the protocols there you will see that Asada had 6 triple including level 4 on all her spins and steps... so I really don't see what you are trying to say?
 

sather

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 15, 2012
I would recommend you to rewatch the competition again and look at the protocols there you will see that Asada had 6 triple including level 4 on all her spins and steps... so I really don't see what you are trying to say?

It says 'clean triples' and that rules out two-footed flip.
 

mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
It says 'clean triples' and that rules out two-footed flip.

She may have two footed her flip, but the program remains with six triples executed and with level 4 on all her spins and steps and that was an amazing technical accomplishment, especially considering all the transitions, speed, and little preparation she had going into every jump! I can't think of any skater being capable of skating to her programs! that was a exquisite performance from her both technically and artistically!
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
She may have two footed her flip, but the program remains with six triples executed and with level 4 on all her spins and steps and that was an amazing technical accomplishment, especially considering all the transitions, speed, and little preparation she had going into every jump! I can't think of any skater being capable of skating to her programs! that was a exquisite performance from her both technically and artistically!

You misunderstood wallylutz's post and sather clarified it for you. :confused2:

Therefore, while Mao's program was beautiful with six triples attempted, the fact remains that she did only execute 4 clean triples in the LP; less than what she is surely capable of.
 
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altuixde

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Only because the Bronze medalist is not age eligible. In other words, Akiko qualified by default, so much for the gazillion threads this season stating she has been robbed yet she ended up having to be gifted a spot to go to the Worlds.

I don't think that placing lower than Satoko is such a bad thing. Satoko is just that good. I saw her skate when I went to Lake Placid for the 2012 JGP USA.
 

mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
You misunderstood wallylutz's post and sather clarified it for you. It's that simple.

Therefore, while Mao's program was beautiful with six triples attempted, the fact remains that she did only execute 4 clean triples in the LP; less than what she is surely capable of.

I perfectly understood the post, but I think it's ridiculous to make such a big deal out of a two-footed jump and an edge call, instead of looking at what was actually accomplished at the event! it just seems like if the skater isn't cristal clean there will always be complains, how about appreciating what was done, instead of making a big deal out of a two-footed jump!
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
By that logic, Sasha Cohen landed maybe 3 clean triples to win some of her medal?
Michelle landed at max 4 clean triples to win her many World titles?
Kristi landed 2 clean triples to win her Olympics?

Get over it.

A two-footed jump is not a clean triple under either system. A wrong-edge jump is still a triple, but a lower-scoring one. Flutzes and lips were not always given a pass under 6.0. It depended on the judge and what could be seen with naked eye.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Oh my god! I love Kanako's LP sooooo much! Of course maybe it's because I'm a fan of Piazolla music but still, I love the arrangement and the choreography. It seems like she did a lot better in the second half of the program compared to the first half. What I like about her is that when it goes well on the ice, it appears on her face right away and it makes me smile. Although the downside is that she shows her nervousness on her face as well but I believe she can work on that :)

Funny thing is if you add their TES from SP and LP, the difference between Mao and Kanako is only 0.01 point. I don't want to imply anything here but it's just interesting.
I totally agree... Kanako is SO adorable how happy she was to have skated well. Really nice to see after she looked disappointed with her SP performance.

How come you find her and Mao's similar added TES interesting?
 

Leonardo

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I perfectly understood the post, but I think it's ridiculous to make such a big deal out of a two-footed jump and an edge call, instead of looking at what was actually accomplished at the event! it just seems like if the skater isn't cristal clean there will always be complains, how about appreciating what was done, instead of making a big deal out of a two-footed jump!

First of all, congrats to Mao for her good performance!

Seriously. How many times do we have to hear that Mao "only" landed 3, or 4, or 5 clean triples after some great performances like GPF or this one? Some people ignore every other positive aspect of her skating, even when she gets some of the highest base values in competitions. Why does she always receive so much criticism when she's not absolutely perfect? You can bet that even if she is absolutely perfect, many people here will come and say she can't jump, she had ur, was overscored and so on...

When she lands 5 triples and has 2 mistakes, ok, she was not good, but some posters say she landed 2 clean triples and was atrocious. When she lands 5 triples and has 1 mistake, people say she skated like it was 1982, even if most skaters were even worse. When she lands 6 triples, but has 2 <, she only landed 4 triples. When she lands 6 triples, but has two mistakes, she only landed 4 clean triples. ***?? Clean triples is the only thing that matters in figure skating?

Not to mention some sick posters who post criticism and offenses to Mao like, 10 times every day. This is tiresome.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
I perfectly understood the post, but I think it's ridiculous to make such a big deal out of a two-footed jump and an edge call, instead of looking at what was actually accomplished at the event! it just seems like if the skater isn't cristal clean there will always be complains, how about appreciating what was done, instead of making a big deal out of a two-footed jump!

I am merely stating facts. Nothing more, nothing less.

And as I have said before, while her performance here was beautiful, Mao is capable of doing so much more. And I think there are more posts about how happy posters are for Mao relative to amount of "complaints" there are. I hope you can see that.
 

mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
First of all, congrats to Mao for her good performance!

Seriously. How many times do we have to hear that Mao "only" landed 3, or 4, or 5 clean triples after some great performances like GPF or this one? Some people ignore every other positive aspect of her skating, even when she gets some of the highest base values in competitions. Why does she always receive so much criticism when she's not absolutely perfect? You can bet that even if she is absolutely perfect, many people here will come and say she can't jump, she had ur, was overscored and so on...


Not to mention some sick posters who post criticism and offenses to Mao like, 10 times every day. This is tiresome.

perfectly observed, and spot on!
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I don't take too much consideration in the scores. It is nationals inflation, which is standard. Akiko would not get 115+ with her skate today, nor Mao would get 130 for her respective FS. I think in the end, the placements are correct, and that is what matters.

Congrats to the medalists! I feel bad for Akiko, but I hope she makes the most of her opportunity at 4CC and Worlds (one that sadly Oda, as the 4th place finisher in the men, won't get).
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
she is very harshly critized in this forum. I think people expect a lot from Mao.
 
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