Russian Team for 2013 Euros and Worlds | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Russian Team for 2013 Euros and Worlds

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Leonova will frequently do more triples than Mao asada but she will fall once or twice and doesn't have assess pcs.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Leonova will frequently do more triples than Mao asada but she will fall once or twice and doesn't have assess pcs.

She got held up hugely in PCS at Nats and still wasn't named to the Euros team so I'm not sure about that. Seems like the judges are trying to hold her up, but when she skates that badly, there's only so much they can do that's reasonable...Mao has faced similar treatment in the past those two years she didn't make the GPF and the past 2 years when she was 6th at Worlds, she's just skating better now and has better programs so holding her up is not as difficult because she is at least landing/rotating a lot of her jumps, even if there are still a lot of mistakes. Alena OTOH is bombing.

I hope if the older Russian girls continue to skate so poorly that the Fed will name some younger, lesser known chick to the Olympics instead. Pogorilaya for example is old enough for senior ISU championships next season and has been skating really well this season even though she's virtually unknown and new to the international scene. I know she doesn't have the experience and reputation of a Leonova or Sotnikova, but if she's landing the big jumps when it matters and those two aren't, well, it seems like a logical choice to send her, or some other age eligible lesser known Russian girl with consistent jumps, instead. Leonova is a great skater when she skates well, sure, same goes for Sotnikova, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be very frequently as of late. Hopefully things change soon.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
But that was when asada did not give up on so Many jumps and failed at them. Now Mao has given up 3a and never attempts a 3/3 and can't do a triple lutz and has some of the worst rotating of triples in skating. Down to two triples sometimes. Maybe if leonova gave up on so many jumps like Mao she would be better and try to get better pcs because of no falling and better choreography or something. But unlike Mao she needs jumps and the harder jumps which are giving her trouble. Mao had the pcs by bing 2 time world champ and olympic silver medalist that she could totally give up on jumps and be like kostner or ando and have free skates with no 3/3 or no lutz or both. Leonova just doesn't have that pcs. Not even at Russian nationals. But she also unlike Mao and kostner couldn't even attempt to give up on the harder jumps because of skaters like shshnokova and radionova and tuktamisheva
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
But that was when asada did not give up on so Many jumps and failed at them. Now Mao has given up 3a and never attempts a 3/3 and can't do a triple lutz and has some of the worst rotating of triples in skating. Down to two triples sometimes. Maybe if leonova gave up on so many jumps like Mao she would be better and try to get better pcs because of no falling and better choreography or something. But unlike Mao she needs jumps and the harder jumps which are giving her trouble. Mao had the pcs by bing 2 time world champ and olympic silver medalist that she could totally give up on jumps and be like kostner or ando and have free skates with no 3/3 or no lutz or both. Leonova just doesn't have that pcs. Not even at Russian nationals. But she also unlike Mao and kostner couldn't even attempt to give up on the harder jumps because of skaters like shshnokova and radionova and tuktamisheva

Maybe she can get the PCS though if she can start being consistent. She has the same coach as Ando and Ando wasn't originally a skater known for her artistry, but she tried hard content and was consistent, won lots of medals, which built her PCS up, then once her PCS were so high, she could afford to stop trying 3-3s and 3f and still do well just by consistently landing 3lz, 3lo, 3s, 3t, 2a in her programs. I'm sure Alena could do the same, but she'd at least need to show consistency with some of her jumps to get that kind of treatment, and as of late she isn't doing that.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Ando also was a world champion. Sure it would make sense for leonova to stop doing 3/3's but now she has no opportunity to do that! The Russian federation is very mistakenly sending girls who do hard jumps but have terrible pcs like tuktamisheva. Tuk will be lucky to get 55 in pcs when she needs near 70 in pcs to do well. Leonova at least has much better pcs and that is what the ladies event is about.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Ando also was a world champion. Sure it would make sense for leonova to stop doing 3/3's but now she has no opportunity to do that! The Russian federation is very mistakenly sending girls who do hard jumps but have terrible pcs like tuktamisheva. Tuk will be lucky to get 55 in pcs when she needs near 70 in pcs to do well. Leonova at least has much better pcs and that is what the ladies event is about.

I wasn't a fan of Liza before (still not a huge fan) but I think the days of her getting low PCS are numbered. Her improvement in presentation is noticeable and I think she is fully capable of finishing in the top 6 or so. A relatively clean Adelina or Alena would certainly get Russia 3 spots for next year. I really think they have to send Leonova to Worlds because she is the 3rd best option for that last spot.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Ando also was a world champion. Sure it would make sense for leonova to stop doing 3/3's but now she has no opportunity to do that! The Russian federation is very mistakenly sending girls who do hard jumps but have terrible pcs like tuktamisheva. Tuk will be lucky to get 55 in pcs when she needs near 70 in pcs to do well. Leonova at least has much better pcs and that is what the ladies event is about.

Tuk's PCS will improve though if she continues to jump that well. Her PCS aren't horrible, they just can't compete with the best. Her TES is sometimes enough to make up for it though. Alena was very much the same way a few years ago. I wouldn't worry too much yet, Russia will have 3 strong girls to send to the Olympics regardless of if Leonova, Sotnikova, etc. continue to skate poorly because there are just a rediculous number of talented female skaters in Russia now and I'm sure more will continue to emerge.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Mao got 66 in pcs at the gpf and tuktamisheva got 53! In worlds 2012 kostner got 65 pcs. Kostner won Tes and Mao was .2 away from winning Tes because of goe on spins and steps. Even sending tuktamisheva is a huge risk because she needs to be flawless on all her jumps. She can't make one mistake. They need to send leonova because Her pcs can be near 60! If Liza doesn't get over 60 Tes than there is nothing positive about sending her. Her tes to pcs ratios have been 63/53 this season and 65/55 last season at GPfs. If Mao Yuna and kostner all get near 70 in pcs and 60s in Tes than liza getting 50's/50's is just a huge disaster. The pcs is the most important and Liza is not going to get it until post 2014 probably. Her Tes needs to be around 70 and that requires a level of being flawless that is rare for her. They need to send a pcs skater like leonova because pcs is near rock solid and concrete every time! If Liza gets 53 than gosviani is not getting over 50 or near 50 probably. Sotnikovas Tes is not Likely to break 50 or even 45 because of her severe and crippling nerve problems that occur frequently. Leonova is needed or makarova.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Practice is practice. He didn't do much in competition. If he goes to worlds he also starts off with horrible pcs so all his jumps need to be there. Like gachinski's were at 2011 worlds. No mistake is possible because the pcs is not there at all. Most Russians going to worlds in singles will have horrible pcs so no jump mistakes are affordable.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Before getting Kostner's pcs who is ten years older and has the best ss, choreo, presentation etc ,skaters would start from somewhere lower, there is no point keeping Adelina and Liza in domestic competitions only, I don't see how their pcs will rise this way.

Wow thank for Kovtun video!
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
They should send Liza and Adelina but sending gosviani instead of leonova is dumb. Leonova could beat Liza and Adelina but there is no way gosviani could. Her pcs will be horrible and atrocious- tuktamishevas is and sotnikovas jumps are s big question all the time but leonova has higher pcs than any other! Leonova being home is a huge mistake because of pcs.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
They should send Liza and Adelina but sending gosviani instead of leonova is dumb. Leonova could beat Liza and Adelina but there is no way gosviani could. Her pcs will be horrible and atrocious- tuktamishevas is and sotnikovas jumps are s big question all the time but leonova has higher pcs than any other! Leonova being home is a huge mistake because of pcs.

I think sending Gosviani is meant to be a wake up call to Leonova.. either skate better, or be left off the team. If Gosviani bombs at Euros I bet Leonova will be at Worlds.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Practice is practice. He didn't do much in competition. If he goes to worlds he also starts off with horrible pcs so all his jumps need to be there. Like gachinski's were at 2011 worlds. No mistake is possible because the pcs is not there at all. Most Russians going to worlds in singles will have horrible pcs so no jump mistakes are affordable.

agreed, but Gosviyani is not a guarantee she will go to Euros, she could bomb in Poland and not meet the min TES requirements
Gosviyani is an inconsistent skater, she has lost to juniors like Sakhanovich, Medvedeva, Sotskova etc. even in the Russian Cup Series

I am also almost certain Gosviyani will not be at Worlds unless they want a repeat of Polina K. scenario placing 24th at Worlds !
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Well, if Gosviani doesn't get the TES, they've got Leonova. As for her - Leonova's - PCS... Are they good enough to make up for all the mistakes she's been making? PCS isn't the be all and end all - not even now... Talking about what she "could" do and "can" do is of no use if she doesn't actually do it, you know?
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I do think pcs is the be all and end all. Mao won an event doing 4 triples over the sp and lp.

Leonova is just sure to get better than 53! She almost reached 60 last season.
 
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haribobo

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Holding back skaters who have rightfully earned opportunities at Nationals due to gmyers' logic is the worst idea I've ever heard. I hope Gosviani does awesome at Euros and makes that argument look totally baseless.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Usually it would be different but it's not the Russian fed cares about nationals order! Lol. This Might lead to worlds and Russia had a good shot at three spots for Sochi.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
I do think pcs is the be all and end all. Mao won an event doing 4 triples over the sp and lp.

Leonova is just sure to get better than 53! She almost reached 60 last season.

If you're coming from a point of bitterness and disenchantment from what has been going on, I can perfectly understand that. I think that a lot has been done - and will continue to be done - with questionable PCS. However, I don't think Leonova is quite in that league of Favoured Ones, that the judges will hold her up no matter what. True, her silver medal from last year' sWorld no doubt gives her some "cred" with the judges - but if she goes on the way she has, I don't know how long that will be true.

It's not "just" that her jumps have been bad - it's even more the fact that, overall, there's something lacking. While she is not a favourite of mine (this does not mean that I DISlike her or anything - I like her well enough; she's just not a favourite), there is no denying that when she's "on" she skates with an exhuberance and enthusiasm that can be catching. That, however, I feel is what has really been missing this season. The puzzler is - why? Not knowing anything about her, or her situation, I cannot of course even venture to guess - all I can say is that she looks as if she EXPECTS to fail - and when she goes out on the ice, it looks like she is trying to do damage control, rather than skating her heart out - the way she can.

Or at least it was so during the GP season - I haven't seen her RN skates, but going by comments it does not seem to have changed. Of course, if anyone has seen a change in her demeanour that indicates that she may be on the way back, I should be glad to hear of it. :) As I said, while she is not a favourite, it is sad to see someone not skating to their potential.

ETA For clarification - I wrote "year" when it should, of course, have been "season".
 
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