Japan's Takahashi to quit after Sochi | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Japan's Takahashi to quit after Sochi

pangtongfan

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Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I think if one of Dai or Hanyu wins Worlds they will the Japanese number 1 backing for next year. If neither does then it is still up in the air.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
My odds to win Worlds at this point would be:

Takahashi- 35%
Hanyu- 30%
Chan- 25%
Fernandez-5% (his odds to medal I think are quite decent, but not to win)
All others combined- 5%

Some might disagree with these, but what I think we can all agree on is the first 3 are quite close, and Fernandez is the only other possible but a real long shot to actually WIN this year. I really really hope it is Takahashi his year though. This will shock people but I would much rather Chan win than Hanyu. The hype around Hanyu lately is nauseating me, and his inflated PCS and even sometimes exagerrated GOEs are becoming an evcen bigger joke than Chans being guaranteed to win every event with 6 falls and all others clean for 2-3 years was. Now that Chans scores have come down to earth somewhat (PCS still overgenerous for some of his sloppier, more error prone skates, but you cant expect the judges to be perfect when it comes to their pets) and he has managed to shut up his loudmouth he used to bring to press conferences, and keep it in his head mostly at last, he isnt all that bad. On another note that other Canadian loudmouth Scott Moir has also kept his trap shut this year, even at the GP final where IMO he would have had legitimate reason to complain unlike many times he did in the past with no legitimate reason to, so maybe the CSA has clammed Chan and Moir up, and if they did bravo to them for that.

Check your fact! When did Chan ever win with 6 falls, or even 5 falls?!:rolleye: The worst time he won a competition was at 2010 SC with 3 falls in SP and one fall in LP (by the way, 3 + 1 = 4). Even in that competition, he lost SP and fell into fourth place. He would have won the overall competition at 2010 COR without violating the zayak rule. But even in that competition, he has had one fall in SP and 3 falls in LP. Again, it was only four falls in total. And he wouldn't have won the LP with 3 falls even without violating zayak rule. He would still be the second behind Verner in LP if his 2A was counted.

Honestly, I do not wish Chan win the world this time. Takahshi or Hanyu would be a good choice.

It is hardly a news about Takahashi quitting competition after Sochi.;)

He says right after Sochi, but I could see him changing his mind and deciding to go to the 2014 Worlds as well. I kind of expected 2014 to be his last season, as he's been around for awhile and has been injured. I'll miss him though!

If he lost Sochi...;)
 
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chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Kozuka is one of those skaters who is just better seen live than on TV...something about the ease, edging and flow of his skating...The first time I ever saw him live was at Skate America this year, and I really get what the hype is about now..

I agree with you about Kozuka. He's one of my favorite skaters; he is just such an elegant skater who just draws you in. Kurt Browning, when he's commentating, always, always praises Kozuka and says he's one of the best skaters out there. Not too shabby, coming from someone like Kurt!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Kozuka is one of those skaters who is just better seen live than on TV...something about the ease, edging and flow of his skating...The first time I ever saw him live was at Skate America this year, and I really get what the hype is about now..

Yes, I second that since I saw him at SkAm too! His footwork in all his programs was so smoooth!
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
We all knew this was coming unfortunately. Once he made comments about almost retiring a couple of years ago I knew. It's feels like it did for me when Buttle and Lambiel left.

I'm sure all my favs will be moving on after this Olympics.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
We all knew this was coming unfortunately. Once he made comments about almost retiring a couple of years ago I knew. It's feels like it did for me when Buttle and Lambiel left.

I agree. It fills me with a sense of loss. I knew from the first time I saw Daisuke that he would end up on my Forever List. There are a lot of good skaters but very few who do that to me.
 

pangtongfan

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Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Check your fact! When did Chan ever win with 6 falls, or even 5 falls?!:rolleye: The worst time he won a competition was at 2010 SC with 3 falls in SP and one fall in LP (by the way, 3 + 1 = 4). Even in that competition, he lost SP and fell into fourth place. He would have won the overall competition at 2010 COR without violating the zayak rule. But even in that competition, he has had one fall in SP and 3 falls in LP. Again, it was only four falls in total.

Considering all his mistakes at COR he had about 7 falls worth of mistakes and still very nearly beat a clean Verner who was one of the top skaters in the World at the time. Had he just had those 4 falls and not the other problems he would have won easily. At Skate Canada he won easily with 4 as you mentioned. Other events his margin of victories speak for themselves. So I would estimate he had 6 falls worth of errors to be safe to win, and needed a 7th to be in danger of losing if one of the other top skaters skated perfectly for about 2 years. Dont agree with me, I dont care, in hindsight alot of people came around to see I was right on that all along like I tend to be right on pretty much everything (the 6 or 7 fall rule isnt that way anymore, thank goodness, but it was reality for the longest time, and will be a large part of his legacy, of the negative sort, after he is gone).
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Considering all his mistakes at COR he had about 7 falls worth of mistakes and still very nearly beat a clean Verner who was one of the top skaters in the World at the time. Had he just had those 4 falls and not the other problems he would have won easily. At Skate Canada he won easily with 4 as you mentioned. Other events his margin of victories speak for themselves. So I would estimate he had 6 falls worth of errors to be safe to win, and needed a 7th to be in danger of losing if one of the other top skaters skated perfectly for about 2 years. Dont agree with me, I dont care, in hindsight alot of people came around to see I was right on that all along like I tend to be right on pretty much everything (the 6 or 7 fall rule isnt that way anymore, thank goodness, but it was reality for the longest time, and will be a large part of his legacy, of the negative sort, after he is gone).

What is "fall worth of mistakes"?:laugh: A fall has 1 point deduction. Is a mistake worth of one point deduction called a fall worth mistake? I could find many many one point worth of mistakes, or even a couple of points more to go with the "falls", in many many skaters, including Takahashi. Are they having double, triple... amount of their actual falls too?!

If you want your idea to be legitimate, double standard should go away.;)
 
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demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
I agree. It fills me with a sense of loss. I knew from the first time I saw Daisuke that he would end up on my Forever List. There are a lot of good skaters but very few who do that to me.

I feel the same way, but I knew this day would come. Dai has been in the forefront of men's figure skating
for such a long time and I will miss him for sure.

Why is Patrick relevant to a thread about Dai's retirement announcement? :confused:
It would be nice to visit a thread without any negativity for a change. Just saying.....
 
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Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Why is Patrick relevant to a thread about Dai's retirement announcement? :confused:

Then you have to see which post has introduced him to here?:p It's actually in the same pattern almost all the time on this forum.:laugh:
 
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pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
What is "fall worth of mistakes"?:laugh: A fall has 1 point deduction. Is a mistake worth of one point deduction called a fall worth mistake? I could find many many one point worth of mistakes, or even a couple of points more to go with the "falls", in many many skaters, including Takahashi. Are they having double, triple... amount of their actual falls too?!

If you want your idea to be legitimate, double standard should go away.;)

A fall on average under the current rules is on average 3.25 points. The very hardest elements are 3 falls lost in GOE and 1 point for the fall, while most are 2.1 lost in GOE and 1 point for the fall. That plus the possible lost GOE and PCS, but that is a seperate category and impossible to calcuate exactly. So 7 falls worth of mistakes is roughly 22 or 23 points. Chan at that Cup of Russia had:

Fall on downgraded quad- 7.1 points
Fall on triple axel- 4 points
Fall on 2nd triple lutz, downgraded to a sequence (two triple lutzes with no combo)- 4.42 points
double axel-triple toe late in program discounted (Zayak rule)- 8.14 points lost
Fall on triple axel in short program- 4 points
Total points lost directly by mistakes (excluding the possible lost GOE and PCS which no doubt in his case at the time was plentiful)- 27.66 points

Wow I actually undervalued. On average it is probably more like between 8 or 9 falls worth of mistakes he had at that event, so maybe I should instead be saying he was guaranteed to win any event for 2 or 3 years with only 7 falls. Basically land 4 of your 11 jumping passes over the 2 programs and you are 100% certain to win even if everyone else skates cleanly. Or stumble out of all 11 but dont quite fall, dont violate any combination or Zayak rules, and you are still 100% certain to win if everyone else skates cleanly. In any case there shouldnt be anymore questions from you now.

As I said that phase thankfully seems to be over, and thank goodness for the sport which was almost being killed entirely by inflation, even greatly offending Canadian skating fans who usually have a rooting interest in the sport but could never get behind Chan or skating in general at the time for that reason, that plus his loud mouth and disrepesct for his peers. Unfortunately for Chan the embarassing phase which was a disgrace to the whole sport will always tarnish his legacy in the sport, alot of which will be one of the most held up skaters of all time, based on those few years alone. Something even his most ardent fans are painfully aware of, hence their defensiveness whenever the topic is mentioned.
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I know that you were asked to explain the theory of falls, but this is really a thread about Dai's impending retirement :cry: :cry: :cry: :(

Still, it is good to know that when you say x falls, you are figuring x*3.25 to x*4.0 points. It's an interesting way to look at the effect of the PCS edge over the pack that different top skaters have and have had in the past.

Still, I want to have a good cry over Dai's impending retirement...
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Although I am very sad that Daisuke will be retiring after Sochi, on the bright side, as someone who thought he would retire after Vancouver or after 2011 Worlds at the latest, I am still very happy that he has decided to skate for at least one more Olympic cycle after winning his Olympic medal and World title in 2010. Remaining at the top of the sport for so many years is difficult, but the fact that Daisuke was able to do so despite suffering a potentially career-ending injury in 2008 is just astounding. I would like him to win a second World title and the Olympic gold with the time he has left, but whatever happens, his place among the greats is already ensured with programs like La Strada, Cyber Swan, In the Garden of Souls, Blues for Klook, Eye, etc. The second world title and OGM will just be the cherries on top of the icing.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Although I am very sad that Daisuke will be retiring after Sochi, on the bright side, as someone who thought he would retire after Vancouver or after 2011 Worlds at the latest, I am still very happy that he has decided to skate for at least one more Olympic cycle after winning his Olympic medal and World title in 2010. Remaining at the top of the sport for so many years is difficult, but the fact that Daisuke was able to do so despite suffering a potentially career-ending injury in 2008 is just astounding. I would like him to win a second World title and the Olympic gold with the time he has left, but whatever happens, his place among the greats is already ensured with programs like La Strada, Cyber Swan, In the Garden of Souls, Blues for Klook, Eye, etc. The second world title and OGM will just be the cherries on top of the icing.

This is a good point to keep in mind, though like Doris I just want to spend some time sniffling over the upcoming retirement. We could have lost Dai in 2008 from that injury, and somehow he gritted his teeth and brought himself back to the top of the pyramid: world championship, Olympic medal, GPF gold. So we're already ahead of the game. Lucky us!
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I know that you were asked to explain the theory of falls, but this is really a thread about Dai's impending retirement :cry: :cry: :cry: :(

Still, it is good to know that when you say x falls, you are figuring x*3.25 to x*4.0 points. It's an interesting way to look at the effect of the PCS edge over the pack that different top skaters have and have had in the past.

Still, I want to have a good cry over Dai's impending retirement...

Sorry, as you are the moderator, feel free to copy and past that whole conversation into a thread titled `Chan and his falls from 2010-2012`or something like that. I definitely dont want to take the topic offstream from the sad retirement of the wonderful and underrated Takahashi.

Now fully back on topic, I fuly expect, or atleast fully hope, Takahashi will end his career at the 2014 Worlds, rather then at the Olympics. Finishing his career with a World Championships on home ice would be fitting. I cant imagine him passing up that opportunity, no matter what he says, unless of course he wins the Olympics (very possible IMO, even if everyone is on the Hanyu for Sochi gold bandwagon now it seems) and has too much in the way of endorsements and other commitments to be able to train properly for it.
 
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