2013 Canadians Senior Pairs SP | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2013 Canadians Senior Pairs SP

swier

Spectator
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
I believe they are also the only ones doing 3 Lutz throw. Their program is packed with high technical difficulties.
Correction....... Lawrence and Swiegers has been doing 3 Lutz throws since Juniors.....in 2008 in Saskatoon. ( I believe it also got a huge bonus for a mark of 7.20)
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012

See post #21 above for TSN's own link to nice, crisp video of Moore-Towers/Moscovitch SP.

ETA:
Again, the TSN video is not geoblocked for me in the U.S.
Vid is 4:26 in length.​

ETA:
And I neglected to say earlier that I believe there is a nice backstory to the availability of the TSN video for the M-T/M SP.
Moore-Towers had asked via Twitter whether anyone knew of any online video of their SP yesterday.
A producer for TSN sent a reply tweet to her with the link. My hunch (although I cannot be 100% sure) is that he was kind enough to upload their SP in direct response to her request. :thumbsup:​
 
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Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
US Nationals will have more teams, but they will have nothing like as great skating. Quality is more important than quantity.

I really like Duhamel & Radford's short...It's a shame about the stumble on Eric's lutz...but they are the only ones doing a lutz, either, internationally right now, AFAIR.

Sure the two top Canadian teams will likely score higher at Worlds than U.S. teams sans Denney/ Coughlin (if D/C do go to Worlds they are competitive with top Canadian teams technically, but have more work to do presentation-wise, and in terms of choreo).

In any case, I would not be so dismissive of up-and-coming U.S. teams, including Castelli/ Shnapir; Scimeca/ Knierim; and even Donlan/ Speroff (if they become stronger technically).

Someone mentioned break-ups of Canadian teams. Obviously, there have been break-ups and withdrawals among U.S. pairs as well, so there aren't many U.S. teams competing either at Nationals, as in past years.

Fans should smell the roses and appreciate what all teams have to offer regardless of nationality.
 

stickle

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Fans should smell the roses and appreciate what all teams have to offer regardless of nationality.
Unless those teams (or individuals) are from Canada? And Canadian fans shouldn't tout their teams? Lord knows they have to put up with a lot of garbage about their skaters and any decent marks are dismissed as some nefarious plot by judges to favour Canadians. The skating at Nationals has, so far, been spectacular and there's nothing wrong with praising the wonderful young Canadian skaters.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Unless those teams (or individuals) are from Canada? And Canadian fans shouldn't tout their teams? Lord knows they have to put up with a lot of garbage about their skaters and any decent marks are dismissed as some nefarious plot by judges to favour Canadians. The skating at Nationals has, so far, been spectacular and there's nothing wrong with praising the wonderful young Canadian skaters.

Of course Canadian teams should be praised, and this is after all a Canadian Nationals thread. I'm in here because I enjoy watching many Canadian skaters. I absolutely loved Duhamel/Radford at last year's Nationals ... they were fantastic. Their fp performance and reaction in particular to me represented what figure skating is all about. I was not a fan of theirs when I first saw them, but I am a fan now and I'm rooting for them to medal at Worlds.

Still, I don't think there's any need to say: "U.S. Nationals will have more teams, but nothing like as great skating." That kind of comment smacks of the defensiveness that some Canadian fans seem to project at times. Even feeling as if you "have to put up with a lot of garbage about [Canadian] skaters" seems so over-dramatic and over-possessive and nose-in-the-air defensive.

Celebrate all of Canada's wonderful skaters ... they have an amazing history/ legacy and a wonderful present. I love S/P, D/R, Toller, Kurt, Brian O, Elvis, Bourne/ Kraatz, Weaver/ Poje, Mitchell/ Islam, Gilles/ Poirier, and I very much enjoyed Jessica Dube with her partners. I also enjoy watching Kevin Reynolds, Eman Sandhu, Eladj Balde, Jeffrey Buttle, Joannie Rochette, Shawn Sawyer, Beharry/ Jones, Purdy/ Marinaro, Virtue/ Moir (and former ice dancers Wing/ Lowe & Dubreil/ Lauzon), and I'm warming somewhat to PChid (I liked Patrick immediately when I first saw him skate, but I lost some of my liking of him along the rocky, 'over-hyped' way). Right now, I'm very impressed with Kaetlyn Osmond -- she's pretty special.
 
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geoskate

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Still, I don't think there's any need to say: "U.S. Nationals will have more teams, but nothing like as great skating." That kind of comment smacks of the defensiveness that some Canadian fans seem to project at times.

I assume you don't know that the poster who wrote that comment is an American, not a Canadian. Therefore your entire post is really not relevant.

Having said that, I certainly would not underestimate some of the up-and-coming U.S. teams. If they actually stay together (here's hoping) they could have a real impact in two or three years.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
I assume you don't know that the poster who wrote that comment is an American, not a Canadian. Therefore your entire post is really not relevant.

Having said that, I certainly would not underestimate some of the up-and-coming U.S. teams. If they actually stay together (here's hoping) they could have a real impact in two or three years.

Yes, I didn't think for sure the OP was Canadian when I posted my initial comments. Still, I do find stickle's response about "garbage our skaters put up with" to be defensive and over-possessiveness. All skaters generally have to "put up with garbage" from fans and the media. As far as the "American" OP's comment about "lack of quality" among U.S. pairs, I disagree with her assessment and her irrelevant comparison especially within the context of this thread, but opinions vary. Personally, I'm just as excited to see all the disciplines at up-and-coming U.S. Nationals, despite the break-ups as well as the injuries that necessitated withdrawals among U.S pairs teams.

Canadians are also Americans, naturally. :)
 
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Joined
Jan 22, 2004
I believe they are also the only ones doing 3 Lutz throw. Their program is packed with high technical difficulties.

A fair amount of teams perform it.

Since the lady is assisted by the man on the take-off the flip/lutz entry is interchangeable really and you'll often see the same team getting credited either with flip or lutz at different events.

Still, I don't think there's any need to say: "U.S. Nationals will have more teams, but nothing like as great skating."

Well it's true so deal with it. ;P
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Well it's true so deal with it. ;P

Essentially this though I wouldn't have quite put it that way. Especially with D/C out, the quality of the top 2 US pairs teams who will compete (and who number 2 will be is a huge question IMO) is nowhere near the quality of D/R and MTM. I don't think that's offensive to say, personally. I think the same could be said but in reverse about the ladies competition (though USA and Canada have a similar amount of ladies skaters so it's not a perfect analogy). Canada (while they do have a firecracker in Osmond) has nowhere near the quality of US ladies generally right now IMO (though who will rock it on any given night in the USA can be unclear).

I mean this in the least abrasive way possible, but if you think C/S and whoever US team 2 is are in anywhere near the same league as D/R or MTM, I believe that to be objectively wrong. That does not mean there is nothing to enjoy about US pairs skating or that it is not fun to watch and worth watching. It just means MTM and D/R (and IMO even L/S) are currently better than the current crop of US pairs.

Also, I am an American.
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I think what Doris said is being misunderstood. She said that the USA will have the more quantity of pairs but that CANADA has the better quality.

I don't see the slight some have interpretted her statement to have.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
^^ No problema, like I said, opinions vary. IMO, there are "quality" pairs teams in the U.S. Certainly, Canada's top two teams are currently at a much higher level of rep, competitive experience, and competitive achievements than C/S, S/K and D/S, et al. As far as Denney/ Coughlin, they are competitive with Canada's top teams technically, even if not so much presentation-wise.

I really enjoy Duhamel/ Radford a great deal because I feel and I'm inspired by their energy, determination and desire. They are an excellent team and their work with Julie Marcotte has helped lift them to the next level. M-T/M are quite good as well, though not one of my favorite teams at the moment. I also enjoy watching Beharry/ Jones, Lawrence/ Sweigers, and Purdy/ Marinaro. IMHO, Castelli/ Shnapir are competitive with 3 - 6 place Canadian pairs teams. Also, Scimeca/ Knierim are a new but quite good team for the short length of their partnership, and are improving fast. Donlan/ Speroff have superlative artistry and great potential if they are able to improve technically. All of the U.S. teams have "quality," even if they aren't all currently in the same league as the top two Canadian pairs teams.

It's absolutely true that the top two Canadian pairs teams today are very highly regarded and highly accomplished and would score higher than the American teams, especially with D/C not at full strength and possibly not going to Worlds. However, it is a conceit to think that Canadian pairs have always been better or more accomplished than U.S. teams, and I think this is and has been a conceit held by many regardless of nationality. At 2010 Olympics, Evora/ Ladwig skated circles around the two Canadian teams, but were low-balled in the marks and placed behind those teams. As much as I used to enjoy Dube/ Davison the judges gifted them at that event in the scoring.

Prior to the rise of D/R and M-T/M, I always felt that Canada's pairs teams post-S/P retirement were on a par with U.S. teams, but perhaps because of S/P legacy, Canadian pairs teams that immediately followed seemed to benefit from S/P afterglow, IMHO. Granted Dube/ Davison were very talented, but they never fully reached their potential before splitting up.

It seems to me Tonichelle that DorisPulaski was responding to something you said or asked in regard to whether Canadian teams had "tanked," simply because there weren't that many competing. That was a strange question/ assumption on your part, IMO. In her response, DP may not have intended to slight U.S. teams, and she's right from her perspective if she feels the U.S. pairs competition won't be as exciting. However, once again, I differ with her reference to "quality" comparisons. And personally, I'm looking forward to the "excitement" that is sure to be present throughout U.S. Nationals this week in every discipline.
 
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Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
It's absolutely true that the top two Canadian pairs teams today are very highly regarded and highly accomplished and would score higher than the American teams, especially with D/C not at full strength and possibly not going to Worlds. However, it is a conceit to think that Canadian pairs have always been better or more accomplished than U.S. teams, and I think this is and has been a conceit held by many regardless of nationality. At 2010 Olympics, Evora/ Ladwig skated circles around the two Canadian teams, but were low-balled in the marks and placed behind those teams. As much as I used to enjoy Dube/ Davison the judges gifted them at that event in the scoring.

Prior to the rise of D/R and M-T/M, I always felt that Canada's pairs teams post-S/P retirement were on a par with U.S. teams, but perhaps because of S/P legacy, Canadian pairs teams that immediately followed seemed to benefit from S/P afterglow, IMHO. Granted Dube/ Davison were very talented, but they never fully reached their potential before splitting up.

I'm sorry but Canadian Pairs Teams have won 10 World Championships since 1950, and two Olympic Gold Medals. The American Pairs have won two World Championships in the same time frame, and the last American Pair to win a World Championship was Babalonia & Gardner in 1979. The US simply does not have the history or the tradition of a strong pairs program and you don't have coaching schools devoted to Pairs. The emphasis in the US is on singles skating and Pairs is seen as a last resort for failed singles skaters, whereas in Canada, skaters give up promising singles careers to skate Pairs.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I think what Doris said is being misunderstood. She said that the USA will have the more quantity of pairs but that CANADA has the better quality.

I don't see the slight some have interpretted her statement to have.

BTW, I should say, this was about Nationals, and therefore had nothing to do with D/C, who weren't skating.

And I am very fond of Castelli/Shnapir, who have made great strides this year. I hope they continue to surprise me. And that Scimeca/Knierim continue to improve. They have had a great debut at Nationals.
 
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