2013 Canadian Nats Senior FD | Page 4 | Golden Skate

2013 Canadian Nats Senior FD

Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
G/P were over scored. She is much too weak of a skater for him. Her edge quality is poor. I disliked the program as well.

I've noticed a lot of Gilles & Poirier criticism on this board. They skated 2 good programs and that's why they finished 2nd to Virtue & Moir.

Of course Piper doesn't have as much technical ability as Paul at this point - she hasn't been to the Olympics and the Worlds like he has. Paul is one of the best ice dancers out there and has more years of experience under his belt. Paul & Vanessa used to regularly beat Weaver & Poje.

But while one can argue that they may have received a few extra points at this event, the same can be said for V&M, Patrick Chan and several others as well. What's key is that G&P legitimately earned the 2nd place finish at this event.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
...
They said in an interview post FD with Liz Manley they were looking forward to going to Japan for 4CC. I´ll say one thing for V&M and D&W is that unlike dance rivalries of the past these two are not afraid of competition.

Per Skate Canada's official announcement, its dance roster for Four Continents is:
- Virtue/Moir
- Gilles/Poirier
- Orford Williams

ETA:
My apologies to Shaba22, who already had provided the link for the Four Continents announcement in post #42 of this thread. Sorry that I overlooked it earlier, but from the URL alone, it was impossible to anticipate the topic of the page at the link. (Not of any consequence in this instance, but even otherwise decipherable full-length URLs often appear in threads in collapsed (and less decipherable) form, automatically generated by forum software.)​

Also:

Since the beginning of the season, Four Continents in Osaka has been listed on "Tessa & Scott's upcoming competitive schedule" -- as shown on Virtue/Moir's own website.

On an ongoing basis, someone does keep the schedule/results page up to date.
(Although it does not yet reflect their Nationals win from this weekend , I expect that it soon will. Their GPF silver showed up quite promptly in the results section.)​
 
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skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
To be fair to Paul/Islam, they skated (relatively) clean at last year's nationals, and they were dealing with the backlash from two major injuries at the time. Not exactly an open door, or a disaster on their part.

This year was all them, though. I was in the arena for this, and their skate was going well. I'll admit they didn't look 100% on, and had a couple of really minor bobbles early on, but it didn't seem like they were seriously rattled. If anything, it seemed like they had really settled in by that point in the program. The fall came completely out of nowhere, and it was a hard one. I was sitting on the side across from where it happened, and we heard them smack the ice. I haven't taken a second look at this, since I can't find a video of it anywhere, so all I can say is that I remember them skating fast into that sequence, and that they were skating super close together. I honestly didn't see if they caught an edge, or which one of them took the other one down. They did recover well. The end of the program was really strong, but too little to late at that point. I'm heartbroken for them. It honestly seemed like a fluke, especially since they skated so well in their senior international events this season. I just hope they don't give up. They're such a stunning team, and I do think they can have a future. I saw their SD as well, and they really have a presence in person. They certainly got the crowd during the SD. They also have deeper edges and more speed than we see on TV. There's just something about them, something I can't quite put my finger on, that gives me the impression that they are capable of great things. They're still young, and I hope they can keep fighting.

That being said, Orford/Williams deserved their medal. They're not at the same level as P/I and G/P, but they skated well, and given what happened to P/I, were definitely deserving. Their lifts in particular were impressive. I hope that they have a good outing at 4CC, and at worlds if they're going. The official announcement isn't up yet, but one would assume they'll be named as alternates (since I believe they're leaving a spot for Weaver/Poje until they get official word about her prognosis) once that announcement does come up.

I was impressed by Poulin/Servant (last year's junior champs). I had never seen them in person before, and they have much more flow over the ice than I expected. Also, their edges are crazy deep, and they seem to have dealt with the twizzle issues they had been having last year. They just left me with a really great overall impression, and I think the marks reflected that. It was nice to see.

Ralph/Hill concerned me here. They didn't make any mistakes that I saw, and they had good speed and attack. Yet, there was something lacking. The whole program just felt flat, and the marks reflected it this time around.

Gilles/Poirier were, IMO, over scored. They have a ton of speed, great lifts and are bursting with confidence, but their actual skating ability seemed lacking (well, at least Gilles'). Also, I saw a lot of tricks, flailing and jumping around, but not all that much dancing. Sorry, but I think it's easier to generate speed when you're not doing all that much between the elements. The choreography and music were a little disjointed. All of that being said, they certainly had the crowd riled up, and I can see why so many people love them. Personally, I just can't get past those weaknesses right now. I was hoping their program would grow on me, but so far it hasn't. I'm not debating their silver medal, which was well deserved, just saying that I think they're getting more hype and success than they deserve at this point.

As for Virtue/Moir, I could spend all day debating their scores, or the deductions, or what that means for their world championship prospects, but I'm not going to do that. What I will say is that I was completely and utterly captivated by the program from start to finish. The intensity, the speed and flow, the edges, the drama...well, everything about it was amazing. Their emotion was so utterly focused towards one another (as opposed to pushed out to the audience), that you could sense the electricity between them. They lived the story. I think this may very well be the best piece that they have ever done, regardless of how many medals it wins them. Wow.
 
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herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
I called right for this event that O/W will surprise many as how well they will do. I am happy that it happened, as I saw it coming, but also sad as their rivals had major boo-boos at the same time.
To fell on elements like twizzles or step sequences are a killer.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Hmmm, I have to say the scores are odd because V and M weren't overscored really compared to the others. But this skate says V and M have a lot of work and this season might be a write off for gold. Their lifts in the free have bene questionable and one wondered if they might be penalized. Canada isn't lookng to good with Chan or V and M.
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Considering that Worlds is being held in V&M's hometown, literally, and close enough to Toronto that there will be a HUGE contingent of Central Ontario Section family and friends there as well, I think the roof will blow off the Labatt Centre every time V&M take the ice. I will be shocked if they don't win in London.
 

figuristka

Medalist
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
To be fair to Paul/Islam, they skated (relatively) clean at last year's nationals, and they were dealing with the backlash from two major injuries at the time. Not exactly an open door, or a disaster on their part.

This year was all them, though. I was in the arena for this, and their skate was going well. I'll admit they didn't look 100% on, and had a couple of really minor bobbles early on, but it didn't seem like they were seriously rattled. If anything, it seemed like they had really settled in by that point in the program. The fall came completely out of nowhere, and it was a hard one. I was sitting on the side across from where it happened, and we heard them smack the ice. I haven't taken a second look at this, since I can't find a video of it anywhere, so all I can say is that I remember them skating fast into that sequence, and that they were skating super close together. I honestly didn't see if they caught an edge, or which one of them took the other one down. They did recover well. The end of the program was really strong, but too little to late at that point. I'm heartbroken for them. It honestly seemed like a fluke, especially since they skated so well in their senior international events this season. I just hope they don't give up. They're such a stunning team, and I do think they can have a future. I saw their SD as well, and they really have a presence in person. They certainly got the crowd during the SD. They also have deeper edges and more speed than we see on TV. There's just something about them, something I can't quite put my finger on, that gives me the impression that they are capable of great things. They're still young, and I hope they can keep fighting.

That being said, Orford/Williams deserved their medal. They're not at the same level as P/I and G/P, but they skated well, and given what happened to P/I, were definitely deserving. Their lifts in particular were impressive. I hope that they have a good outing at 4CC, and at worlds if they're going. The official announcement isn't up yet, but one would assume they'll be named as alternates (since I believe they're leaving a spot for Weaver/Poje until they get official word about her prognosis) once that announcement does come up.

I was impressed by Poulin/Servant (last year's junior champs). I had never seen them in person before, and they have much more flow over the ice than I expected. Also, their edges are crazy deep, and they seem to have dealt with the twizzle issues they had been having last year. They just left me with a really great overall impression, and I think the marks reflected that. It was nice to see.

Ralph/Hill concerned me here. They didn't make any mistakes that I saw, and they had good speed and attack. Yet, there was something lacking. The whole program just felt flat, and the marks reflected it this time around.

Gilles/Poirier were, IMO, over scored. They have a ton of speed, great lifts and are bursting with confidence, but their actual skating ability seemed lacking (well, at least Gilles'). Also, I saw a lot of tricks, flailing and jumping around, but not all that much dancing. Sorry, but I think it's easier to generate speed when you're not doing all that much between the elements. The choreography and music were a little disjointed. All of that being said, they certainly had the crowd riled up, and I can see why so many people love them. Personally, I just can't get past those weaknesses right now. I was hoping their program would grow on me, but so far it hasn't. I'm not debating their silver medal, which was well deserved, just saying that I think they're getting more hype and success than they deserve at this point.

As for Virtue/Moir, I could spend all day debating their scores, or the deductions, or what that means for their world championship prospects, but I'm not going to do that. What I will say is that I was completely and utterly captivated by the program from start to finish. The intensity, the speed and flow, the edges, the drama...well, everything about it was amazing. Their emotion was so utterly focused towards one another (as opposed to pushed out to the audience), that you could sense the electricity between them. They lived the story. I think this may very well be the best piece that they have ever done, regardless of how many medals it wins them. Wow.

Thanks for your comments from seeing it live. Very well said. :)
 

Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
Considering that Worlds is being held in V&M's hometown, literally, and close enough to Toronto that there will be a HUGE contingent of Central Ontario Section family and friends there as well, I think the roof will blow off the Labatt Centre every time V&M take the ice. I will be shocked if they don't win in London.

In other words, V&M will be overscored because they will be skating on home ice and will win a title they aren't necessarily entitled to?
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
There's no substitute for seeing the program live, but having the comments of those who were lucky enough to be there is the next best thing :love: Thank you!

And in defense of the judges, they can only grade PCS components in increments of 0.25. Internationally, Virtue and Moir have been graded at 9.0 to 10.0 by very nearly all judges at very nearly all events. It's nationals; inflation is expected; there's nowhere to go but 10.0. And if a judge had given Gilles & Poirier 8's or 9's for every component, then, frankly, that judge should given 10.0 to Tessa & Scott. For every component.
 
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Ryan O

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
Canada
This year was all them, though. I was in the arena for this, and their skate was going well. I'll admit they didn't look 100% on, and had a couple of really minor bobbles early on, but it didn't seem like they were seriously rattled. If anything, it seemed like they had really settled in by that point in the program. The fall came completely out of nowhere, and it was a hard one. I was sitting on the side across from where it happened, and we heard them smack the ice. I haven't taken a second look at this, since I can't find a video of it anywhere, so all I can say is that I remember them skating fast into that sequence, and that they were skating super close together. I honestly didn't see if they caught an edge, or which one of them took the other one down.

Paul & Islam's Free Dance was broadcast on CTV on Sunday afternoon, so you should be able to find a video of it somewhere, or I assume it will be up on YouTube soon.

In terms of the fall what basically happened according to Tracy Wilson is that Mitch got too far ahead of where he was supposed to be in the sequence, and he ended up banging into Alexandra with the tip of his skate, which caused them both to fall over. This was shown in the replay. Because both of them hit the ice there was a 2-point deduction. Had they not gotten that 2-point deduction they would have finished 3rd ahead of Orford & Williams.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
As for Virtue/Moir, I could spend all day debating their scores, or the deductions, or what that means for their world championship prospects, but I'm not going to do that. What I will say is that I was completely and utterly captivated by the program from start to finish. The intensity, the speed and flow, the edges, the drama...well, everything about it was amazing. Their emotion was so utterly focused towards one another (as opposed to pushed out to the audience), that you could sense the electricity between them. They lived the story. I think this may very well be the best piece that they have ever done, regardless of how many medals it wins them. Wow.
I agree! :agree:
However, basing this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOopUxj1lNw) I tried to discover which lifts were too long:
1st lift-short lift (max 6 seconds): from 1:02 to 1:08 (I see her blade clearly touching the ice at 1:08, so it's exactly 6 seconds: the rules say that a short lift can be 6-seconds long, right?)
2nd lift-combo lift (max 12 seconds): from 2:55 to 3:05, the curve lift from 2:55 to 2:59, the rotational lift from 3:01 to 3:05 (there is a two-seconds gap when they change the position)
3rd lif-short lift: from 4:13 to 4:20 so too long
4rd lift-choreo lift (up to 10 seconds): from 4:24 to 4:32
I don't understand to other two deductions: did they consider the second lift too long and so (since it was a combo lift) considered two deductions because it was made of two different lifts?
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Thanks for the live report!!!! I echo Doris - it really is so nice to hear from people who saw it live and makes us feel like we were there too!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Thanks for the live report!!!! I echo Doris - it really is so nice to hear from people who saw it live and makes us feel like we were there too!

Indeed. It's especially great to hear reports for Canadian Nationals, because they have two sets of world champions on the ice, Chan and Virtue/Moir.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Did their spin change from a Spin (Sp) to a Combination Spin? Because that's how the tech panel graded it.

I felt that the first two lifts would've been the ones called long, and because the first position wasn't held long enough, the drop of levels. I don't get the spin calling, though.
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Did their spin change from a Spin (Sp) to a Combination Spin? Because that's how the tech panel graded it.

I felt that the first two lifts would've been the ones called long, and because the first position wasn't held long enough, the drop of levels. I don't get the spin calling, though.

Hi IP - I think the spin calling has folks dupped on the majority of forums, including myself...
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Considering that Worlds is being held in V&M's hometown, literally, and close enough to Toronto that there will be a HUGE contingent of Central Ontario Section family and friends there as well, I think the roof will blow off the Labatt Centre every time V&M take the ice. I will be shocked if they don't win in London.

On the other hand, from Virtue/Moir's perspective, competing in their own backyard is no guarantee of a cakewalk.
As thankful as they are for the exhilarating hometown support, they have said also that they expect it to bring additional challenges.

For instance, the enthusiastic Vancouver crowd was so loud during their CD that V/M were struggling to hear the music adequately as they performed. That disadvantage really tested their powers of concentration, even as they were gratified by the deafening outpouring of loyalty, delight, and approval from fellow Canadians. (In a recent interview, V/M said that as part of their training, they are deliberately thrown into scenarios of less than ideal conditions: music at a volume that is too low or too high; people shouting at them; and I forget what else.)

And to keep off-ice distractions under control, the mental "bubble" that is their modus operandi during competitions will be more important than ever at London Worlds. That huge contingent of family and friends will mean greater pressure and/or temptation to spend personal "face time" (my phrase, not V/M's) with loved ones. Also roof-blowing will be the intensity of media interest and requests.

[Not to mention the whole 'nother subject of their formidable rivals Davis/White. ;)]
 

Tesla

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
In other words, V&M will be overscored because they will be skating on home ice and will win a title they aren't necessarily entitled to?

Pretty much. I'll be beyond shocked if V/M lose, even with minor bobbles and perfection from others.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I think Davis and White could still take the world title this year, but imagine the (negative) reaction of some of the crowd..
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
I think Davis and White could still take the world title this year, but imagine the (negative) reaction of some of the crowd..

I agree blue_idealist - it will be a nailbiter between D/W and V/M. I am hoping that the crowd will be respectful for all teams.
 
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