2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies SP

ForeverFish · Jan 24, 2013

katymay said:
Remember, we have to go with the two who have the best chance of getting us back the third spot. Ashley is a lock because she has shown herself to be dependable and reliable. Anyone want to guess what would have happened to Alyssa if she had not been injured,and had skated here and skated well? The judges would have found a way for her to 'miss the podium.'
The international judges also seem to ding Caroline without mercy, and Gold isn't known enough. Mirai also fares poorly internationally....so that leaves Agnes by default. And the international judges love big, powerful jumps. So I would guess that the preference is for Ashley and Agnes.

Gold needs more confidence/experience at the senior level. Sending any skater to Worlds their first year as a senior is a mistake, IMO. Caroline seems out of the question, if the SP standings mean anything. Christina hasn't shown much consistency until this season, and still seems to struggle for a clean FS. Agnes has less international experience than Mirai, and if Mirai ends up second, she'll probably be sent to Worlds.

aftertherain · Jan 24, 2013

Reginald said:
True, but Gracie and Christina and Agnes FELL, and they're way ahead of Caroline. So, it's better to fall now than to under rotate jumps.

Sarah Hughes wouldn't have been anywhere near the podium at Salt Lake City had this system been in place.

Now it sounds like you're arguing in favor of CoP, 'cause shoot, I didn't think Sarah should have been anywhere near the podium.

I don't agree with Caroline's score, but if she "cheated" on three of her elements vs. one of Christina's or Agnes's, I would think she should be lower. But again, I don't agree with how low her score is and how low her placement is.

brightphoton · Jan 24, 2013

so happy for Ashley

but 12th place for Caroline????? with no falls??? What do the judges have against her???

Reginald · Jan 24, 2013

Layfan said:
Well, I definitely don't think this SP does her justice at all.

Even so, Agnes being in front of her is nonsense. I do like Mirai's FS. Go Mirai!!!!! We love you!

I couldn't possibly agree with you more.

OS · Jan 24, 2013

Mirai got spins level 2???? This can't be serious... must rewatch it again! She's among the best spinner in the biz?!!! (I so deleted my earlier nice praises for the judges, this is insane!)

flying camel · Jan 24, 2013

Agnes is not known to be a good free skater. I would be surprised if she holds it together. I think it is going to be Ashley and Mirai for the world team.

samson · Jan 24, 2013

Hmmmm looking briefly and comparing scores, Agnes had almost two points in base value more than Mirai. Mirai actually got .59 more in GOE than Agnes, but Agnes' had higher GOE on her triple and combo.

I'll also give them that Mirai had the speed and positions in her layback but the centering wasn't there tonight and I think she lost some points there too. I still think Mirai deserves at least second. I'm also kind of surprised about he PCS. Agnes really did attack it in the way she's known to in her sp. Still though... the axel.

Side note, had she gone clean on the axel she would be ahead of Ashley right now. Thoughts on that?

evangeline · Jan 24, 2013

Reginald said:
True, but Gracie and Christina and Agnes FELL, and they're way ahead of Caroline. So, it's better to fall now than to under rotate jumps.

Hasn't this been obvious for several seasons already?

If you fall but fully rotate the jump, you still get the full base value of the jump minus some GOE. If you under-rotate, your intended base value gets reduced to 70% plus whatever negative GOE the judges give you if they spot the under-rotation.

Such is the nature of CoP.

wallylutz · Jan 24, 2013

icellist said:
How is Mirai's combination spin level 2? farce...

You have to understand the Level on a spin and the quality of execution of that said spin are two different things, don't confuse between the two. A spin may lose level for any number of reasons, e.g. not maintaining enough rotations for a given position or one of the feature is omitted for X reason. This could all lead to the Tech Panel downgrading the spin to a lower level. Yet for the same spin, the judges could give that +2 or even +3 for quality of execution.

yunasashafan · Jan 24, 2013

Reginald said:
True, but Gracie and Christina and Agnes FELL, and they're way ahead of Caroline. So, it's better to fall now than to under rotate jumps?

Sarah Hughes wouldn't have been anywhere near the podium at Salt Lake City had this system been in place.

In all fairness, we have to keep in mind that Caroline had three jump errors (2 under-rotations and one downgrade) while Gracie had three (an under-rotation, a pop and a fall) with a higher base value and Christina had a fall on a spin, a lower-scoring element compared to jumps

willdu · Jan 24, 2013

icellist said:
How is Mirai's combination spin level 2? farce...

I would like to point of that Gao's combo spin(the last one) got level 4. How does that happen compared to Mirai? Going 2nd may have effected her GOEs/levels. PCS seems pretty fair IMHO.

flying camel · Jan 24, 2013

It looks like the judges have lost faith in Caroline.

pangtongfan · Jan 24, 2013

samson said:
Side note, had she gone clean on the axel she would be ahead of Ashley right now. Thoughts on that?

Not surprising. Before Nationals one could have predicted if Wagner didnt attempt a 3-3 or a lutz (which she was never planning to) and Agnes skated clean with her 3-3 and lutz, that Agnes could or would win the short. She can score great in the SP with her big jumps, fast skating, and strong elements. It still doesnt mean Agnes is any threat to Wagner at all in the LP though. If Agnes can somehow cobble together a good enough LP for 2nd that would be great for her.

Orange Cat · Jan 24, 2013

katymay said:
The international judges also seem to ding Caroline without mercy, and Gold isn't known enough. Mirai also fares poorly internationally....so that leaves Agnes by default. And the international judges love big, powerful jumps. So I would guess that the preference is for Ashley and Agnes.

Mirai has actually done pretty decently on the international stage- excluding the highlights of 2010, she's actually done ok with 4CC and the SGP. I'm going off the top of my head here, but hasn't Mirai won more medals on the SGP (read 2) than Agnes (0)?

I don't have a live stream so I can't compare the two in this competition... but having watched that youtube clip- how on earth did Mirai only get .79+ GOE on her final layback spin?? Are the judges blind??

Art&Sport · Jan 24, 2013

katymay said:
Remember, we have to go with the two who have the best chance of getting us back the third spot. Ashley is a lock because she has shown herself to be dependable and reliable. Anyone want to guess what would have happened to Alyssa if she had not been injured,and had skated here and skated well? The judges would have found a way for her to 'miss the podium.'
The international judges also seem to ding Caroline without mercy, and Gold isn't known enough. Mirai also fares poorly internationally....so that leaves Agnes by default. And the international judges love big, powerful jumps. So I would guess that the preference is for Ashley and Agnes.

Mirai's rep dipped quite a bit and she's worked hard to get back to where she is now and with a more mature-looking body so she's had to make some adjustments. She's showing a lot more fire and spirit than she did last year. Agnes did not do better than Mirai on GP, and I don't think international judges favor Agnes more than Mirai either. They are looked at fairly equal IMO in terms of how international judges view them, but Mirai has accomplished more than Agnes on the World stage re Olympics and Worlds. IT will come down to who performs best in the fp and I hope Mirai hits it out of the ballpark because of all the critical looking down on her.

I'm not surprised Phil Hersh said that Mirai's scores were "generous," since he's been dumping on her and would like to be proven right.

Jammers · Jan 24, 2013

flying camel said:
Agnes is not known to be a good free skater. I would be surprised if she holds it together. I think it is going to be Ashley and Mirai for the world team.

Mirai is not known as a great free skater either.

mateusp1 · Jan 24, 2013

Agnes got +1,8 for her 3T+3T... That means she recieved (4)four +3 and 3(three) +2. Also, she got +1,4 for her Lutz.

Sometimes, Agnes reminds me of Kostner(my favorite skater). Tall, fast, massive jumps, great basic skills and edges, nice music choices... I think that Agnes will be the "new Kostner".

willdu · Jan 24, 2013

Orange Cat said:
Mirai has actually done pretty decently on the international stage- excluding the highlights of 2010, she's actually done ok with 4CC and the SGP. I'm going off the top of my head here, but hasn't Mirai won more medals on the SGP (read 2) than Agnes (0)?

I don't have a live stream so I can't compare the two in this competition... but having watched that youtube clip- how on earth did Mirai only get .79+ GOE on her final layback spin?? Are the judges blind??

She traveled quite a bit before centering her layback. Perhaps that was it?

Selene · Jan 24, 2013

ForeverFish said:
Gold needs more confidence/experience at the senior level. Sending any skater to Worlds their first year as a senior is a mistake, IMO. Caroline seems out of the question, if the SP standings mean anything. Christina hasn't shown much consistency until this season, and still seems to struggle for a clean FS. Agnes has less international experience than Mirai, and if Mirai ends up second, she'll probably be sent to Worlds.

She needs to learn how to control her nerves. Right now, she is the champion of the practices, but not a competitor. Her performances this season have been very disappointing.

icellist · Jan 24, 2013

Orange Cat said:
but having watched that youtube clip- how on earth did Mirai only get .79+ GOE on her final layback spin?? Are the judges blind??

agreeing with other users that the centering wasn't there for the layback but still furious about the levels she got on the combo spin

2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies SP

ForeverFish

aftertherain

brightphoton

Reginald

Match Penalty

OS

Sedated by Modonium

flying camel

samson

evangeline

wallylutz

yunasashafan

willdu

flying camel

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

Orange Cat

Art&Sport

Jammers

mateusp1

willdu

Selene

icellist

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