2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies SP | Page 21 | Golden Skate

2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies SP

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
It's all a matter of interpretation of the skating and then of the judges' scoring, Mrs. P. Figure skating is after all a subjective sport. I don't care how it all breaks down re the numbers, but thanks for providing the stats which are always interesting, but yet don't necessarily always accurately reflect the actual skating, since again, fs is a subjective, and very political sport.

The new judging system actually makes it easier for judges to place skaters kind of where they want them to be. PCS scores are generally massaged. Numbers can always turn out to look as if, "Well that seems right." Actually, I do see some dumping and some boosting in the PCS. Some of it, of course, ended up happening to lesser known young skaters who skated great early, but as a result did not catch a break.
 
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OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
*:cry: Mirai* okay i am going to bed almost 5am UK time... don't say I don't love Mirai enough to stay this late for her... Sigh... oh Mirai!!

Actually Orange Cat I agree this might not be a bad thing. She need to fight to earn her place if she is serious about Sochi in any case. She does have an uphill struggle for the gold... but at least less pressure off her.

Lesson learnt: 3Lutz matters. Don't ever get complacent even on even your best elements - the level 2 spin thing is pretty appalling by her standard. Agnes deserve her 2nd place ranking with the highest TES of the day and highest BV. Actually I have noticed judges can sometimes reward those who are 'perceived' to be under marked in their SP and try to compensate them if they deliver (human tendencies?). So as long as Mirai bring her season best, and the crowd really rally behind her, gold is still not not out of the question! She has strong 2nd half jump content, so theoretically she is in a good position as any. The difference between her score and Agnes is less than 1 point.

Thanks Mrs P for the stats as always. Interesting read, feel so sorry for Caroline!!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
It's all a matter of interpretation of the skating and then of the judges' scoring, Mrs. P. Figure skating is after all a subjective sport. I don't care how it all breaks down re the numbers, but thanks for providing the stats which are always interesting, but yet don't necessarily always accurately reflect the actual skating, since again, fs is a subjective, and very political sport.

The new judging system actually makes it easier for judges to place skaters kind of where they want them to be. PCS scores are generally massaged. Numbers can always turn out to look as if, "Well that seems right." Actually, I do see some dumping and some boosting in the PCS. Some of it, of course, ended up happening to skaters who skated great early, but as a result did not catch a break.

Perhaps, but maybe I should clarify and say I don't see any blatant boost/dumping. I guess I don't have a problem with the placements to be honest.
 

Orange Cat

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Thanks for the PCS breakdown, Mrs P! Very helpful indeed. I think the PCS look pretty fair, there- nothing inflated, but it doesn't look like PCS lowballing occurred.

I think that the Tech was chiefly involved in that.

willdu, as a non-skater I never thought about the prerotation of the loop making it harder to tell if one is or isn't UR-ing or DG-ing. I just- although I knew Caroline's score before I watched her skate, when her mark was read out I was even more upset for her :disapp:
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Caroline's triple-triple combination was ridiculous. I thought the second jump was a double or something. Her score was deserved.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Doing a combo ending with a 3Lo, IMO, is a huge risk. Miki Ando had a beautiful 3Z-3Lo when she did it and she often got UR on them. And Ando was someone who had huge height on her jumps.

Caroline has never had huge height on her jumps, so it likely clouded the judges perception the rotation. It looked clean to me, but that's my take on what happened.
 

willdu

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Doing a combo ending with a 3Lo, IMO, is a huge risk. Miki Ando had a beautiful 3Z-3Lo when she did it and she often got UR on them. And Ando was someone who had huge height on her jumps.

Caroline has never had huge height on her jumps, so it likely clouded the judges perception the rotation. It looked clean to me, but that's my take on what happened.

I think this is the reason why so many skaters don't do the loop tagged on anymore. It's really easily to be called UR on. It's sade because it really is the only other jump than the toe that can just be tacked on. I'd take watching a jump + 3 loop combo over so x + halfloop + usually 3S anyday.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
I think Agnes was overscored on choreo and interpretation a bit. Even Ashley W could have been scored a bit more under 8.46 (more like 8.20 perhaps). In addition, I think Caroline, Samantha and Hannah were underscored in Interpretation (and likely other categories -- haven't gone through the numbers with a fine-tooth comb). As I said, very subjective and political. And for my taste, too point-gathering oriented to the point where the pieces become more important than the whole, but that's another debate.
 

Orange Cat

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I love your optimism, os168! As it is, I'll be thrilled to bits if Mirai can make the Worlds team :) (I am assuming Ashley is pretty much a lock for first.)
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Now this is how you interview a skater who just had a bad skate.

Good job, Tanith. She doesn't go straight to talking about the bad skate, but rather leads into it. I really like her interviewing style.

Also Gracie is quite classy in this interview as well.
 

Icey

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Of the top ten in the short program, only two skaters did not attempt a 3/3, among those two, of course, Ashley.:unsure:
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Of the top ten in the short program, only two skaters did not attempt a 3/3, among those two, of course, Ashley.

I don't blame Ashley for not going for it. With the food poisoning (which can take a lot out of you, I've seen it happen) and the hip pointer, I don't blame her for focusing on doing what she can well.

Sometimes being a champion means playing smart. I certainly would not her to have long-term injuries because she was forcing her self to do things when her body wasn't ready for it.
 

sk8tngcanuck

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Can someone direct me to a link for results? the USFSA site isn't very friendly (IMO) and I don't want to scroll through 28 pages here to find it! TYIA
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Now this is how you interview a skater who just had a bad skate.

Good job, Tanith. She doesn't go straight to talking about the bad skate, but rather leads into it. I really like her interviewing style.

Also Gracie is quite classy in this interview as well.

Absolutely wonderful by both Tanith and Gracie. I'm so impressed with Tanith's interviewing and commentating skills. She's got the right touch and should go very far in broadcasting if she wants to. I can just see Peter C doing a poor job and also that lady sports broadcaster (I forget which network, and I forget her name) who has done a lot of overly pushy crap question interviews with skaters (maybe it's NBC or ABC).
 
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OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I think Agnes was overscored on choreo and interpretation a bit. Even Ashley W could have been scored a bit more under 8.46 (more like 8.20 perhaps). In addition, I think Caroline, Samantha and Hannah were underscored in Interpretation (and likely other categories -- haven't gone through the numbers with a fine-tooth comb). As I said, very subjective and political. And for my taste, too point-gathering oriented to the point where the pieces become more important than the whole, but that's another debate.

What struck me most are how universally aligned these PCS components are per competitors ranking, which would indicate they are more likely used as placement holders rather than their stated purposes unique to each choreography and performance. Looking just on the stats alone, you'd be wondering if they are performing the same choreography!

Yeah Orange Cat I do agree 2nd place is more likely, she need a little luck. I just want Miria to get a chance for the world championships. She missed 2 years already, which is a complete waste for someone so talented! Though I would be :mad: if the FS is won by PCS rather than TES, hope that won't happen at FS.
 

sask8

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Mrs. P Protocal breakdown pt. 2 - PCS

PCS Overall:
Ashley 32.83
Agnes 30.37
Mirai 29.66
Christina 27.81
Gracie 26.34
Caroline 26.29
Hannah 25.84
Yasmin 25.74
Courtney 25.65
Ashley C. 25.55
Samantha 25.00
Angela 24.12

Skating Skills (SS)
Ashley 8.00
Agnes 7.75
Mirai 7.46
Christina 7.04
Gracie 6.93
Courtney 6.57
Caroline 6.54
Angela 6.36
Ashley C. 6.36
Yasmin 6.32
Hannah 6.25
Samantha 6.21

Transitions (TR)
Ashley 7.86
Agnes 7.25
Mirai 7.07
Christina 6.71
Gracie 6.39
Yasmin 6.32
Hannah 6.32
Ashley C. 6.07
Caroline 6.07
Courtney 5.96
Samantha 5.93
Angela 5.86

Performance/Execution (PE)
Ashley 8.43
Agnes 7.68
Mirai 7.57
Christina 6.86
Caroline 6.71
Courtney 6.64
Gracie 6.57
Hannah 6.57
Samantha 6.43
Yasmin 6.39
Ashley C. 6.50
Angela 5.89

Choreography (CH)
Ashley 8.29
Agnes 7.71
Mirai 7.46
Christina 7.07
Gracie 7.71
Caroline 6.79
Yasmin 6.68
Hannah 6.61
Ashley C. 6.61
Courtney 6.46
Samantha 6.32
Angela 6.18

Interpretation (IN)
Ashley 8.46
Agnes 7.57
Mirai 7.50
Christina 7.07
Caroline 6.75
Ashley C. 6.61
Gracie 6.57
Hannah 6.54
Yasmin 6.46
Courtney 6.43
Samantha 6.36
Angela 5.86


For all this talk about people getting dumped or boosted by PCS scores here, I'm not sure if I see it....


So Gao finished 4th in section of the PCS, so it has to be her technical marks that pushed her to fifth...and also her mistake on the spin, which she did receive some credit for but i'm sure was reflected in the PCS.

As someone else stated Zawadski had a great sp last year (1st after sp) but her fs was problematic. I'm not sure I ever remember seeing her skate two clean programs in one competition...although she could surprise, I would expect Nagasu to move up to 2nd with Wagner holding onto 1st (even with falls). Gold will move up with her fs but whether it is enough to secure a medal (i.e. 4th) finish...well...I would be slightly surprised but not shocked...I think she will make FCC team.

Interesting at the press conference Wagner was asked about a 3-3 combination and whether she would need it against the likes of Asada and Kim. Her response was typical but I think honest and suggestive of where her mind set is. Obviously the questioner was attempting to solicit whether Wagner believes she could beat Asada and/or Kim at worlds (probably put Kostner in there too). IMHO, I think Wagner, or anyone else for that matter, has no shot of beating Kim at Worlds unless Kim just makes too many mistakes or does not show up at all. Wagner has definitely improved her skating in the past couple of years and become a far more fierce competitor, but when Kim skates clean, she is in a league of her own. I think everyone else will be skating for second and third, which I believe Wagner has a shot if she adds a 3-3...but this might also depend on whether Asada adds her 3A, and doesn't Kostner have a 3-3.

This brings me to the world team. If the US is serious about gaining the 3rd spot for next year, they need to think seriously about who they send. I think Wagner is a lock but the second position is in the air, and that second position should not necessarily be given to the competitor that finishes 2nd at US Nationals but the best competitor who has the greatest chance of placing top 7 or 8. It'll be interesting to see who is granted the 2nd spot.
 
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