2013 Europeans Men - Short Program | Page 9 | Golden Skate

2013 Europeans Men - Short Program

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
OMG! I just saw the results, I couldn't see the competition. But I think I won't watch it a couple of days. :(( Plushy love you!

I was heartbroken about it - but Plushy is still Plushy. It's easier to watch if you're prepared, I think.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
But seeing a 4-3 combo is more exciting and I can only assume it's harder to do a 4-3 and a solo 3 jump than a 3-3 and a solo 4 jump. I know point wise it's better to have a solo 4T but I prefer to see a great 4-3 like Kovtun did today, it gives a bit more excitement to the program IMO

I agree and like it was written above I think it would be nice to see something in IJS that says 4/3 combo gets a little more and not be equal to quad solo and 3/3toe.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
The huge GOE for Javi's 4S is just laughable.

Huh? He has the best Quad Salchow in the World.

Amodio should have received at least -2 GOE for his 4S in this SP, btw. There were NO preceding movements before it and that is required in the SP for the solo jump.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
1 Fernandez
2 Amodio
3 Joubert

Voronov's pcs is soo poor
at internationals level Menshov could score around Brezina's pcs and would have scored 80+
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I was heartbroken about it - but Plushy is still Plushy. It's easier to watch if you're prepared, I think.

Especially if he did 3z - 3t in warm up and a gorgeous 3axel, like 10 minutes ago.:cry: I think I was shocked after the axel and took me some seconds to come round. Watching the video I think the quad was out of program because he is not well, but the mistake of Lz looked like a loss of focus and the axel was like he rushed the exit. The rest of program was like he wanted to finish and leave although audience was helpful. And after KnC he was in tears. Then we saw him coming to watch the last group, I was 100% he had withdrawed already.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
1 Fernandez
2 Amodio
3 Joubert

Voronov's pcs is soo poor
at internationals level Menshov could score around Brezina's pcs and would have scored 80+

Voronov pcs is so poor but his goe is also horrible!

Russia should be having a panic attack at the idea of not having a top 10 or 15 contender for worlds or Olympics if theres plushenko!
 

Irina89

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I don't see why you think Kovtun's performance was awful...He just managed to improve his personal best in the short by two point, and this concedering he only did a 2 Axel...
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Hopefully kovtun will be able to land his highly ambitious free skate jumps. It's so high risk and ambitious and he's not done it yet so it's very suspenseful. Judges just give a big shrug all the time to voronov.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
OMG! I just saw the results, I couldn't see the competition. But I think I won't watch it a couple of days. :(( Plushy love you!

plushfan, I encourage you to watch it. It's not pretty. But watch it for the footwork alone, where he laughs, and smiles, and shows to the world how much he still loves skating, even when he is in pain. It's wonderful.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Hopefully kovtun will be able to land his highly ambitious free skate jumps. It's so high risk and ambitious and he's not done it yet so it's very suspenseful. Judges just give a big shrug all the time to voronov.

Menshov must be laughing now !!!
he would have been the most decent amongst a podium from Russia
capable of scoring 80+ while Voronov's pcs no matter how much he makes up with jumps is beyond embarassing

poor Menshov sitting at home :disapp:
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
plushfan, I encourage you to watch it. It's not pretty. But watch it for the footwork alone, where he laughs, and smiles, and shows to the world how much he still loves skating, even when he is in pain. It's wonderful.

That's so true!
 

ILoveFigures

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Am I the only one who thinks it is quite embarrassing to see that 5 out of 9 judges gave Brezina a -2 only for his 3F+COMBO when the rules clearly state that: Combo consisting of one jump only, GOE must be -3 in the short program? :slink:
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Am I the only one who thinks it is quite embarrassing to see that 5 out of 9 judges gave Brezina a -2 only for his 3F+COMBO when the rules clearly state that: Combo consisting of one jump only, GOE must be -3 in the short program? :slink:

In the judges' defense, this case is not as obvious as you might think. Here is the clip to what exactly happened :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G0Y0I2-5wQ#t=1m8s

As you can see, Brezina in fact did tag along a double toe after stepping out of his 3F. Here is the tricky part. The Tech Panel ruled that the touch down of his free foot included a weight transfer, therefore, chose to ignore the 2T as part of the combo, hence the + COMBO indication. Some of the individual judges ruled that the touch down of free foot did not include a weight transfer, therefore, under the rules, Brezina was still considered to have performed a jump combo and therefore, would not get the automatic -3 GOE. This is one of the grey area where by simply looking at the protocols, it doesn't give us the whole picture.

In my opinion, there was a clear weight transfer because he used his free foot to stabilize himself in order to set up for the 2nd jump. In other words, had he not put his foot down, he would most likely fall and therefore, this is a case where the double toe should not count and a mandatory -3 be assigned.

But as we have seen with Plushenko's solo Triple Lutz not preceded by satisfactory connecting steps, most of the judges on this panel did not apply the appropriate deduction in this competition. It kind of makes you less willing to give them the benefits of doubt when we add up all these questionable calls together.
 

afsmlou

Spectator
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Menshov must be laughing now !!!
he would have been the most decent amongst a podium from Russia
capable of scoring 80+ while Voronov's pcs no matter how much he makes up with jumps is beyond embarassing

poor Menshov sitting at home :disapp:

It is the judges that should be embarassed to underscore him like that!
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
It is the judges that should be embarassed to underscore him like that!

Voronov is hardly underscored when it comes to PCS. His "programs" are basically a bunch of elements that happen to occur at around the same time some random music is playing in the background.
 

afsmlou

Spectator
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Voronov is hardly underscored when it comes to PCS. His "programs" are basically a bunch of elements that happen to occur at around the same time some random music is playing in the background.

It looks to me that he is usually following the music very well and listening to it. He may not be the most artisitc one but he is not that bad! I remenber falling in love with Rachmaninov after seeing his FP at RN a few years ago. He has his own style as all of them do.

It looks to me that PCS is a very subjective thing and even the judges wouldn't be able to justify their score most of the time. Because Voronov has not been supported by his federation (quite the opposite), he is prejudiced on the PCS.

What is the meaning of all the discussions about "politicking" if not to show that nobody has a clue about PCS?
 
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