- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I can't say Caroline should have won, but she warmed the cockles of my wee heart.
2013 US Nationals Senior Ladies LP
- Thread starter Reginald
- Start date
I can't say Caroline should have won, but she warmed the cockles of my wee heart.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
... Scott Hamilton and I cried together.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
Protocols: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2013/68390/results.html
Free Skates of the Top 12:
1. Ashley Wagner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgsQhWNP2t8
2. Gracie Gold - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU78A1ezsJA (Second highest FS score at Nationals after Sasha Cohen in 2006!)
3. Agnes Zawadzki - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jGvxPJ5kTI
4. Courtney Hicks - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk7VhedT2zk
5. Christina Gao - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dC6TRVzTik (Fifth ... Again.)
6. Yasmin Siraj - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Rsb6UXIn0
7. Mirai Nagasu - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HeFWQROmYA
cry: ) -- Thanks for the link, yuki!
8. Samantha Cesario - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPoy2XEGtWQ
9. Angela Wang - No video yet. (Did you see that 3Lz+3T+2T though? Wow! :agree: -- Shizuka Arakawa ... come baaaack!)
10. Hannah Miller - No video yet.
11. Caroline Zhang - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl9oqmW7NE4cry:
)
12. Ashley Cain - No video yet.
Free Skates of the Top 12:
1. Ashley Wagner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgsQhWNP2t8
2. Gracie Gold - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU78A1ezsJA (Second highest FS score at Nationals after Sasha Cohen in 2006!)
3. Agnes Zawadzki - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jGvxPJ5kTI
4. Courtney Hicks - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk7VhedT2zk
5. Christina Gao - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dC6TRVzTik (Fifth ... Again.)
6. Yasmin Siraj - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Rsb6UXIn0
7. Mirai Nagasu - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HeFWQROmYA
cry: ) -- Thanks for the link, yuki!8. Samantha Cesario - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPoy2XEGtWQ
9. Angela Wang - No video yet. (Did you see that 3Lz+3T+2T though? Wow! :agree: -- Shizuka Arakawa ... come baaaack!)
10. Hannah Miller - No video yet.
11. Caroline Zhang - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl9oqmW7NE4
cry:)12. Ashley Cain - No video yet.
You're overlooking the fact that Sasha and Sarah both fell in the LP too. And in the LP, Kwan actually completed more clean triples than either of them, if I recall correctly. So not the same situation at all.
She was splendid, wasn't she? She has a grace and musicality that integrates her program and gives it magnetism.
Wow, wow, wow. That was UGLY!
In the end, Wagner "defended" her title, but she hardly did so in convincing fashion. I have a hard time saying she was gifted the win, though- because you have to consider the SP as well. Wagner did what she had to do, while Gold had a fall AND a singled axel. in fact, some people were even saying Gold's SP score was generous...
The more accurate thing to say is that Wagner backed into the win - or got TREMENDOUSLY lucky that the two skaters that could have easily passed her also failed to seize the moment. Only Gold did - but then, she was 13 points back in the short, and at the end of the day it was just a WEE BIT too much ground to cover.
In the end, Wagner "defended" her title, but she hardly did so in convincing fashion. I have a hard time saying she was gifted the win, though- because you have to consider the SP as well. Wagner did what she had to do, while Gold had a fall AND a singled axel. in fact, some people were even saying Gold's SP score was generous...
The more accurate thing to say is that Wagner backed into the win - or got TREMENDOUSLY lucky that the two skaters that could have easily passed her also failed to seize the moment. Only Gold did - but then, she was 13 points back in the short, and at the end of the day it was just a WEE BIT too much ground to cover.
Found Mirai's LP (complete with misspelled name): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HeFWQROmYA
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
- Country
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I never said Cohen and Hughes were perfect. You, however, said Kwan never would have won with 2 falls at Nationals when, in fact, she did. None of the contenders in 2013 was perfect either when you look at both programs.
Protocols: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2013/68390/results.html
Free Skates of the Top 12:
1. Ashley Wagner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgsQhWNP2t8
2. Gracie Gold - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU78A1ezsJA (Second highest FS score at Nationals after Sasha Cohen in 2006!)
3. Agnes Zawadzki - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jGvxPJ5kTI
4. Courtney Hicks - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk7VhedT2zk
5. Christina Gao - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dC6TRVzTik (Fifth ... Again.)
6. Yasmin Siraj - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Rsb6UXIn0
7. Mirai Nagasu - No video yet.
8. Samantha Cesario - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPoy2XEGtWQ
9. Angela Wang - No video yet. (Did you see that 3Lz+3T+2T though? Wow! :agree: -- Shizuka Arakawa ... come baaaack!)
10. Hannah Miller - No video yet.
11. Caroline Zhang - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl9oqmW7NE4
12. Ashley Cain - No video yet.
Thanks SO much! I am thrilled to see Caroline and Samantha Cesario skate again, and as soon as I watch a few more of the guys on TV, I'll head over to Gao and Gold.
If the USFSA wants to take other things into consideration, that's fine. I frankly think other things SHOULD be taken into consideration. But at least be honest about your process. Take the Russians for example they judged Russian Nationals fairly and put Menshov above Kovtun. And then said look we think Kovtun is a better shot at Europeans... He's our future, and really (other than Plush maybe is their best shot at a top 10 finish) (I'm sure names are being spelled wrong)They took criticism for it, but given Kovtun placed the highest of the Russian men at Europeans, with a top 5 finish, I think they are right. (Short and Long term)
My concern with Wagner too, is this is the second disasterous free she's had (straight). And Gold has been hit or miss all season, so giving her such PCS over a Gao... Although I do think Gold has the most potential of the US girls, so I get that they are also thinking long term.
The US system is ridiculous right now because its not even really very honest.
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Caroline just doesn't have the skating skills or technique to compete at the high level. Her PCS have not matured, and she is still skating extremely slowly, even if not quite as slow as a couple of years ago. Add to that the fact that she's lost some of her flexibility, which was her strength, and she's lost grace as she's grown. And add to that the fact that jumps aren't her strong point either, so is it any surprise she comes so low down?
As for the rest, I prefer Mirai to Ashley, but Mirai's performance deserved those scores. It's annoying to read people say "Skater X fell once and came 99743th whereas Skater Y fell three times and won." It doesn't work like that. Perhaps it's time for a skating version of the tennis "Hawkeye", so audiences can be shown underrotations. Or better commentators pointing them out.
As for the rest, I prefer Mirai to Ashley, but Mirai's performance deserved those scores. It's annoying to read people say "Skater X fell once and came 99743th whereas Skater Y fell three times and won." It doesn't work like that. Perhaps it's time for a skating version of the tennis "Hawkeye", so audiences can be shown underrotations. Or better commentators pointing them out.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Ashley was touted as brave and pretty darn good at GPF now that same event for her is considered a disaster? Come on people if we want to see the judges show consistency shouldnt we also?
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
Probably because the fall on her hip (hip pointer?) looked really, really painful.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
But my point is that she was praised all the way up to last night about that LP. Now it's being used against her by some to say the last two showings were subpar. IMO only nationals was subpar for her.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
Were those the same people who were praising her about being brave though? I've observed that a lot of the posters who praise skaters and the turn around and criticize them aren't the same ones as those who post try to positive comments amidst their shortcomings. It often seems that way because the slather on the negativity. I'm not saying this happens all the time, but I do feel like it happens enough to make others frustrated.
I honestly don't know how I feel about the ladies' event here. Everything seems all over the place to me.
hwell:
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Were those the same people who were praising her about being brave though? I've observed that a lot of the posters who praise skaters and the turn around and criticize them aren't the same ones as those who post try to positive comments amidst their shortcomings. It often seems that way because the slather on the negativity. I'm not saying this happens all the time, but I do feel like it happens enough to make others frustrated.
I honestly don't know how I feel about the ladies' event here. Everything seems all over the place to me.
Yeah I agree that the ones crticizing Ashley are 1.) Ones that always criticize her no matter what or 2.) Criticizing the system that allowed this result to happen.
I agree with RD that Ashley backed herself into this result. She did just enough in the FS to win, but it wasn't the way she wanted to win.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I'll start by saying I'm biased because I really wanted Ashley to win. I do think Ashley should have won taking into account both the SP and LP. However, I could see making the case to have Ashley in 2nd. Ashley aside, I think the ranking of the remaining skaters was about right. The skaters who finished lower than expected had multiple URs. Whether you agree they should be penalized to the extent that they are, the fact is both US and international judges slam underrotated jumps and in most cases it is better to rotate fully and fall. So I don't think there is a big conspiracy to hold up certain skaters (other than Ashley perhaps).
Two different camps. She fought through GPF. Here, she was trying to finish. There's a huge difference.
That's the wrong way to look at it.
On a good night, her PCS was in the 62-63 range. On a crap night, her PCS improved by 3 points here. Should be 60 max.
On a good night, she didn't miss 2 jumps, didn't double foot the Sal. For the Sal, on a good night, she would get +1 GOE, say -1 GOE here, that's a difference of 1.50 at least. The flutz, another -3 or -4, the loop, another -3 or -4.
So, on a good night, she should get 128, on a bad night like last night, she should get 128 - 6 for PCS - 1.5 for Sal - 8 for the two falls, that leaves her around 113.5, not 121.
What kind of math are you using to calculate her scores on a bad night to come out with 121?
Given the inflated scores last night- I could see Ashley scoring about 130 or 131 if clean. So that's where I started.
And I'll leave it that because clearly you don't agree with the result and I'm not going to waste my time or energy trying to convince you.
