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Thread: 2013 US Nationals Senior Mens SP

  1. #196
    Broken but still proud.
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    Jan 2013
    Country: Australia

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    I am so in love with Joshua Farris. Flourishes, ebbs and flows in his choreography and style of skating. Musicality, body awareness, sensitivity, interesting positions and transitions throughout his program.
    And he does his own choreography, too.

    Just so you got the full picture.

  2. #197
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    Oct 2004

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    ^ so very impressive!

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    I don't agree. Adam was twice a Junior World champion and he has already placed as high as 6th at senior Worlds. In addition, he has two GP bronze medals, and a gold at 4CC. In many ways, the actual talent and "potential" of all three guys is fairly equal. The difference: Adam is more mature, has had more senior international experience, and he landed a beaut of a 3-axel last evening (his nemesis), plus all of Adam's in-between moves and transitional elements were superb (more mature and polished than Josh, and more mature than the firecracker stylist, Jason, too). Adam's ending layback spin ... OMG! Wowza

    Josh, Jason, and Adam are all quite wonderful. The problem for Adam has been that he has yet to completely fulfill his potential (and there is not a lot of time for U.S. guys to seize their moment and be able to fully realize their potential; also once they've achieved buzz, it's hard for them to maintain their status at the top, especially in their own country). First Adam came up when Johnny and Evan were at the top, and then there were a number of great talents closely following Adam, in Ross and Richard. When Adam missed out on going to Worlds in 2011, he lost a lot of momentum, as well as rep.

    One of Adam's biggest problems of course has been the triple axel, which seemed fine for hiim when he first debuted on the senior scene. But for some reason, perhaps he was never in full command of his technique on that jump and I suppose Morozov didn't pay enough attention to that for Adam. Obviously, Morozov helped Adam gain buzz and wins at junior Worlds, but it is the small details that mattered, not a rush to prominence without paying heed to all the basics necessary for Adam to have fully realized his potential on the World stage in seniors well before now. Adam's technical difficulties were compounded by the need for him to switch coaches so often. He had no choice but to leave Morozov. Orser seemed a good fit, but as it turned out, not really. Orser seems more interested in basking in the spotlight of guiding more established talents to podium placements.

    Adam's tutelage under Yuka and Jason worked well, but I think the focus needed to be more on perfecting the 3-axel at that time, rather than trying to develop quads. Still, Adam had a fairly decent season 2011-2012, until Worlds. Even though his programs were especially wonderful, last year's Worlds is where his stock fell once again because of his mistakes and a low placement. I think Adam made a sound decision in switching to work with Rafael this season. Clearly, Rafael has helped Adam develop more confidence and improve his technique on jumps. He's got a wonderful 3-axel now, and I hope he's able to maintain the consistency on it in competition. This season, I think Adam has not only had to refine his jump technique, but he's also had to tweak his programs a bit more than he had to last season. But I think his short program as well as his confidence was much improved yesterday. Obviously, it's going to take more from Adam before he can manage to get fully back into good graces with TPTB, because there are just so many guys with talent in the U.S.

    Overall, the major difficulty hampering many U.S. guys from fulfilling their potential is the fact it's so hard to get out of Nationals and develop the necessary experience on the senior international stage. It's definitely a smaller window of opportunity for up-and-coming U.S. guys than it is for male skaters in any other country, including Japan. Even though there are many Japanese guys who are extremely talented and it's difficult for them too to get on their World team, the fact is they all seem to have more support and backing from their federation, which allows them to focus exclusively on their training and to receive all the resources they need. Plus there is so much cheering and support for them throughout their country which should not be underestimated.

    You know, I'm not saying it's an easy decision for the U.S. fed to make. Maxim Kovtun of Russia is being rushed out because he has more talent and potential than that exhibited by veterans Menshov and Voronov who are technically sound, but don't possess well-rounded artistic skills. Personally, I think Kovtun is being rushed too quickly, just as Gachinski was hurriedly anointed with the bronze medal when he doesn't have well-rounded skills. IMO, Adam is a much better all-around skater than Artur Gachinski, but due to timing and politics, and his own struggles for sure, Adam has not been gifted on the World stage in the same way that Gachinski was. Kovtun seems so far a more well-rounded skater but he lacks maturity. What he does have going for him in spades in Russian fed clout, and the prospect of the Olympics being held in Sochi in 2014.

    I think Josh should be sent to junior Worlds, and IMO, US judges were a bit too over-eager to reward Josh with high scores for his sp. Of course, Josh is a wonderful skater who in any other country would automatically be on top and have the opportunity to slowly develop at Worlds (the biggest stage) every year. U.S. skaters don't have that luxury. Brian Joubert, Florent Amodio, Javier Fernandez, and many others (including some with lesser talent than U.S. guys do get that opportunity every year, e.g., now retired skaters Samuel Contesti and Kevin van der Perren). THAT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE ALL YOU CRITICS!

    Fine, all the critics can keep on saying "U.S. men don't have quads," etc., etc. Quads are important and need to be more fully developed, but that should not be the exclusive focus, though it is an important focus. IMO, U.S. guys are some of the best in the World, but the transitional period from Johnny and Evan to newer U.S. guys taking the stage has not gone smoothly largely because the US fed does not have an overall strategy that takes into account the ramifications of the depth of talent in the men's field domestically and internationally. Plus US fed historically does not politik well. Too often U.S. fed shoots themselves and their athletes in the foot/ skate blade.

    While it might be a good thing to avoid scoring inflation domestically, will that necessarily help their athletes? Maybe it is the right thing to do. But in terms of the Worlds selection process, I don't think the U.S. has really examined the issue fully to keep up with the changing times. Plus, their late adoption of the new scoring system hurt their athletes. Also, their failure to get out ahead of other federations' athletes re the issue of quad development. The US federation probably needs to work more with top U.S. coaches on athlete development concerns.

    The old way of everybody doing their thing on their own the best way they can, and the cream automatically rising to the top just doesn't work anymore.
    I'm sorry but I don't buy it with Adam.. First of all I think Adam HAS reached his potential and has in fact over achieved his potential. I'm not convinced on the wonderful 3 axel now, and I'm less convinced he'll have the needed quad. I do like a lot of aspects to Adam's skating so I'd love to be proven wrong. But Rippon's results have gone done as the years progressed. Jumps are part of this sport and part of overall potential and Adam's jumps have been lacking. Not only with the 3axel and but the quad too. A part of me thinks if you don't have it by a certain age- you'll probably never have it. And it feels like with Adam it was always running after the new hot coach.

    Orser's done fine with a lot of other students. Say what you will about N.Morosov, but he has good jump coaches working with his students too... I don't think the problem is necessary the coaching. As soon as things go wrong with Rafael, he'll probably run there too.

    And as for rushing skaters, I don't think its necessarily rushing to give skaters opportunities. This level IS pressured and difficult but your going to have to learn to deal with eventually. Farris has already been to Jr Worlds, several times...If he delivers well at Nationals, why not send him.

    Right now I'm not convinced on Jason Brown. I kind of see him as Rippon 2.0..Although he's young seems like the 3axel may be coming along....I'd bet more money on Farris's "potential"
    Last edited by bekalc; 01-26-2013 at 06:37 PM.

  4. #199
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    Nov 2010
    Country: United States of America

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    Evan was only 19 when he went to his first Worlds. Granted he had skated as a Senior that season internationally too but still the experience was valuable to his for making the 2006 Olympic team. On the other hand i don't see how Adam can get much better. He lacks a quad and his jumps lack power.

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