2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP | Page 14 | Golden Skate

2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
I wish instead of showing Gracie's program again, they would have shown Alex Johnson's amazing FS. For heaven's sake he finished 5th in the FS!
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
Love this tweet from Jeremy Ten:

Jeremy Ten ‏@j3r3bear

Holy Shibutani I can't even function I'm so excited for @MaxTAaron! I knew u could do it!!! So proud of @Alex_M_Johnson too. #Inspired
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Jeremy's problem is the quad. He doesn't have one. By opening with a certain fall he throws the whole program off. Leave off the quad, J., and instead concentrate on not doubling your triples.

I though Max Aaron had the best short program, too -- the most entertaining, anyway.


ITA, Jeremy had trouble effectively training the quad this season due to his back problems. The smarter strategy for him might have been to focus on doing a clean program, instead of forcing out a quad he wasn't comfortable with right now.
 

skatingfan4ever

"Our blade takes us in the most amazing places."
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I was disappointed that Ross finished behind Max, but Max earned it via those SPECTACULAR jumps, including two AWESOME Quad Salchows! Poor Jeremy - a gorgeous, moving program that was never skated to its full potential. Sigh :disapp:
 

skatingfan4ever

"Our blade takes us in the most amazing places."
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Jeremy Ten's tweet is GREAT! Holy Shibutani is a clever expression :laugh: Love it.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
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Dec 27, 2009
World team has been announced: https://www.usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=48908&type=media

MEN
2013 World Championships
Max Aaron
Ross Miner

Alternate 1 - Jeremy Abbott
Alternate 2 - Adam Rippon
Alternate 3 - Joshua Farris

2013 Four Continents Championships
Max Aaron
Ross Miner
Adam Rippon

Alternate 1 - Richard Dornbush
Alternate 2 - Brandon Mroz
Alternate 3 - Stephen Carriere

2013 World Junior Championships
Jason Brown
Joshua Farris
Shotaro Omori
Alternate 1 - Harrison Choate
Alternate 2 - Jay Yostanto

Yikes, they really didn't give Jeremy a break -- he didn't even get a 4CC berth. And the alternates list for 4CC is nuts 1st, 2nd and 5th?! And the alternates are 6th, 9th and 10th place finishers? And why didn't they include Alexander Brown in any of the alternate lists even though he finished 7th?
 

Art&Sport

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I'll always be a Jeremy fan. He is an exquisite artist and that's why I enjoy watching him.

ITA. I was sending hugs out to Jeremy too. The gift he possesses can never be taken away. I hope he regroups and figures out what he's going to be able to do for next season. Even without a solid quad, if Jeremy could consistently skate cleanly, his PCS could keep him high in the standings. But Nationals is hard and it takes a lot of energy to compete there in order to try and gain a Worlds spot.

Also, let's break it down. Putting top three Worlds medal contenders aside (Hanyu, Dai, Chan), IMHO Ross Miner is competitive with Javi Fernandez, especially if Javi makes mistakes. In addition, IMHO, both Ross and Max are highly competitive with Takahito Mura, Michal Brezina, Joubert, Amodio, Gachinski, Song, Ten, et al. (I don't believe Kozuka or Oda made it out of their killer Nationals).
 
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karne

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Not sure why they didn't see fit to send Josh to 4CCs. Why not give him a little international experience at the top level? He could still go to JW after.
 

evangeline

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Nov 7, 2007
Also, let's break it down. Putting top three Worlds medal contenders aside (Hanyu, Dai, Chan), IMHO Ross Miner is competitive with Javi Fernandez, especially if Javi makes mistakes. In addition, IMHO, both Ross and Max are highly competitive with Takahito Mura, Michal Brezina, Joubert, Amodio, Gachinski, Song, Ten, et al. (I don't believe Kosuka or Oda made it out of their killer Nationals).

Why on earth is Javier Fernandez not a Worlds medal contender. He has the highest international season's best of 274.87 of all the men so far (http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2012-13/sbtsmto.htm) and his SB LP score of 186.97 is 10 points above Yuzuru Hanyu's second-highest international SB LP score. Javi's current international SB is also literally 40 points above Ross Miner's international SB of 235.37. The only way Ross is competitive with Javi is if Javi has a meltdown.
 

KwanIsALegend

Fly On
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Feb 2, 2011
So Jeremy's season is done, that's it ( assuming he doesn't go to worlds as an alternate) That was pretty cold of the USFSA, wow.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
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Apr 28, 2011
Hate to say this, Max Aaron needs to get a Morozov program...

Well, noi, don't! Perhaps you're a thrill-seeking troll. :p God forbid that Morozov even gets near the vicinity of Max Aaron! He's doing fine with Camerlengo and suggestions from Kathy Johnson, and his team can also bring in additional help. Stop putting this kid down!
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
similar to Miria having to be dragged out of the kiss and cry.....
I was impressed that one of her coaches (I think Amy Evidente) basically snapped at her "not here, let's go" in a business-like non-emotional tone.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
They certainly shacked Jeremy in the end. Wow. I sorta get it. You don't want to tell the World that your top competitor isn't going to Worlds (Jeremy could beat Ross and Max internationally at 4CC). But that almost reaffirms that Jeremy probably should've been on the World team but/for....

ITA. I was sending hugs out to Jeremy too. The gift he possesses can never be taken away. I hope he regroups and figures out what he's going to be able to do for next season. Even without a solid quad, if Jeremy could consistently skate cleanly, his PCS could keep him high in the standings. But Nationals is hard and it takes a lot of energy to compete there in order to try and gain a Worlds spot.

Also, let's break it down. Putting top three Worlds medal contenders aside (Hanyu, Dai, Chan), IMHO Ross Miner is competitive with Javi Fernandez, especially if Javi makes mistakes. In addition, IMHO, both Ross and Max are highly competitive with Takahito Mura, Michal Brezina, Joubert, Amodio, Gachinski, Song, Ten, et al. (I don't believe Kozuka or Oda made it out of their killer Nationals).

Why on earth is Javier Fernandez not a Worlds medal contender. He has the highest international season's best of 274.87 of all the men so far (http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2012-13/sbtsmto.htm) and his SB LP score of 186.97 is 10 points above Yuzuru Hanyu's second-highest international SB LP score. Javi's current international SB is also literally 40 points above Ross Miner's international SB of 235.37. The only way Ross is competitive with Javi is if Javi has a meltdown.

Thank you.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
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Apr 28, 2011
But what did he deliver exactly that earned him 79 for program component scores? According to this group of judges, Jeremy is about 1 point per component better than Max Aaron.

Look at Max's program, and if you can't see mens' highly competitive figure skating content in those programs, well I can't help explain it to you. Sure his PCS were high and are unlikely to be that high at Worlds, but once again ISU judges are known to give out some ridiculously high PCS, as well as inflated TES too. The scoring in figure skating is often one part subjectivity and 3 parts politics or a mixture of same. But first, in order to get great scores, skaters have to deliver the goods.

Max wasn't perfectly flawless on everything, but he landed great quads and triples (perhaps not aesthetically pleasing to your eyes, but are Joubert's, Plush's, and many other skaters' quads all that aesthetically-pleasing?) The mainly gorgeous looking quads I've see have come from Hanyu, Patrick on occasion, Fernandez more consistently -- as well Jeremy's quads have looked beautiful on the rare occasions that he's on with them, and Ross' are not bad-looking either. And in fact, Max is fairly textbook on his quads, he just doesn't have long body lines, so he works with what he's got and that's sure nothing to spit on, IMHO.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
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Apr 28, 2011
Why on earth is Javier Fernandez not a Worlds medal contender. He has the highest international season's best of 274.87 of all the men so far (http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2012-13/sbtsmto.htm) and his SB LP score of 186.97 is 10 points above Yuzuru Hanyu's second-highest international SB LP score. Javi's current international SB is also literally 40 points above Ross Miner's international SB of 235.37. The only way Ross is competitive with Javi is if Javi has a meltdown.

Yes, and Javi did have a meltdown at NHK Trophy. That's why it's always important for skaters to concentrate on doing their best and let the chips fall where they may. BTW, I didn't say Javier Fernandez is not a top World medal contender, obviously he is. He's in the top four, as he hasn't yet consistently been in the top three yet at Worlds. His ISU World ranking is also #4. Javi had a good competition at Europeans and that's wonderful for him. I enjoy watching Javi and he's a wonderful competitor. But he hasn't proven to be consistent yet throughout any season. But his win at Europeans should set Javi up for a lot of confidence at Worlds.

Read whatever you wish into my comments, but I'm not saying that Javi isn't a medal contender at Worlds or that it would be easy for lower-ranked guys to beat him, but obviously he isn't unbeatable. Neither are the top three. It's just that if the top three have an off day or make slight mistakes, they clearly tend to still get rewarded by ISU judges.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
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Apr 28, 2011
They certainly shacked Jeremy in the end. Wow. I sorta get it. You don't want to tell the World that your top competitor isn't going to Worlds (Jeremy could beat Ross and Max internationally at 4CC). But that almost reaffirms that Jeremy probably should've been on the World team but/for....

Nope, in the end, Jeremy chacked himself, and he knows it, and he's admitted it.

"Wow. I sorta get it." The rest of the World is so used to beating up on U.S. guys who have artistry in spades, but who don't possess technical consistency or have quads in their arsenal, that a possible change in those reliable circumstances will likely take some getting used to. :)

In 2011, the U.S. men's number one competitor was foolishly not sent to Worlds by .19 points. That result I disagreed with. This year's U.S. men's result I do not disagree with so much. It is what it is. Would I have hoped and expected it to be different, sure. But in this men's competition, I didn't detect any overt favoritism in the final scores of top skaters. I don't agree with the specifics of marks across the board, but among the top guys, the result is not really that similar to what happened in 2011. Both Ross and Jeremy had the opportunity to win, and the judges were definitely willing to give them the marks, which could have knocked Max into second or third. Although, of course, skating after someone who rocks the house and scores a huge number is not a piece of cake. But this is figure skating, it requires guts for glory.
 
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Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
So Jeremy's season is done, that's it ( assuming he doesn't go to worlds as an alternate) That was pretty cold of the USFSA, wow.

How do we know that Jeremy isn't interested in getting more therapy for his back and using his time to start thinking about and preparing for next season in order to be healthier?

I do agree that the 6th and 9th place alternate choices are strange. It's too bad that Wesley, Alexander, Keegan, and even Grant and Sean don't have another opportunity to put out their programs this season (even if only in a lighthearted exhibition).
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
For what it's worth, Max got a 72 in PCS at his senior b (Coupe De Nice) this fall, basically low 7s.
 

ImaginaryPogue

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Jun 3, 2009
For what it's worth, Max got a 72 in PCS at his senior b (Coupe De Nice) this fall, basically low 7s.

And 73 at the US Challenge Classic. I think I overstated the drop in PCS he'd get at Worlds (though I think Senior Bs tend to be scored highly, he could break 70 at Worlds)
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Jesus Christ, Max Aaron and Ross Miner...

Respect to them for landing their jumps but I can't imagine a worse result. Sorry but their skating - that is everything other than jumps - is just extremely boring and mediocre.

The fact Abbott didn't actually skate too badly makes it even more painful.

*goes to cry in a corner*

P.S. There is no way Aaron is going to get 8s if he skates a clean program at Worlds. He'd probably get low 7s (like Kovtun at Euros) at best.
 
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