2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP | Page 21 | Golden Skate

2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
The difficulty in using "Bring Him Home" (or any piece from Les Miserables), personally, is that the power of the musical comes from the human voice.

The difficulty in using any piece from Les Miserables is that musically, it's horrible. Every song is built from similar, bland and meandering melodies. The lyrics are awkward, stilted and full of place-holding filler. The power of the musical, such as it is, derives entirely from Victor Hugo's melodrama.

"Bring Him Home"'s lyrics are laughably bad by themselves, and even more ridiculous in the painfully contrived plot for which it serves. I'm normally a champion of using lyrics and vocals in competitive skating. But this once, it's a relief that Abbott is using an instrumental. Though, really, as soon as he settled on Les Miserables, he was artistically doomed.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I love how people make it out that Ross performed so poorly at Worlds in 2011 when he actually skated quite well there, as did Richard. 11th in such a deep field for someone with no street cred was actually a pretty good result. Not enough for 3 spots but Hersh makes it sound like he bombed at Worlds.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
What do you think about Yuna Kim's version?

I have to say, if skaters must skate to Lez Miz (and we know they must, especially after the movie is out), then Abbott's program is a model of how to do it right (in as much as one can do it right by skating to something so blergh), and Kim's program is a model of how to do it wrong. Abbott manages to use just one piece of music, despite having to skate a longer program. Kim, on the other hand, uses a disastrous cut of multiple songs. I actually don't understand why her music cuts are so bad. With how samey every song from the musical sounds, they lend themselves to easily fading in and out of one another and being outright mashed-up, which happens quite a bit in the show. Her choreography also fights the music. And unlike Abbott, she really doesn't have the artistic and musical sensitivity to pull off the wretchedness implied in the very title of the thing. The one saving grace for Kim is, the other competitors in her field, being younger than the men, are also less artistically advanced in general, and won't show her up too much. Also, she's actually going to World's, unlike Abbott. *sadtrombone*

Besides looking to Abbott, Kim should actually watch the recent movie. The movie distinguishes itself from the original musical, and all other movies, by recording all its main actors' singing while they're crying. That's the main selling point of the movie, and the reason why Anne Hathaway will win that Oscar. It is pretty impressive, in a circus trick kind of way. And what is skating if not another kind of circus? If Kim could manage to blubber throughout her entire free skate, then she'll truly understand the spirit of Les Miserables, and earn every 10 coming her way in the PCS.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Wow Jeremy looked so much smaller back then even though he was about 22. He looked faster too and his jumps were much better. He no doubt had the talent to accomplish a lot more internationally then he has. Now at almost 28 i can't see him being this good ever again.

Didn't he look great. Maybe that was more his competing weight...I don't know. He was in his twentys already and usually guys don't change that much but he kind of has.
 

ryanbfan

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 27, 2011
Not sure if this has been mentioned (I'm skimming), but for what it's worth, Jeremy was offered an alternate spot and declined it. He declined it to recoup and work on his quad. This came straight from Yuka's mouth in the hotel lobby at the Hilton after the event.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I love how people make it out that Ross performed so poorly at Worlds in 2011 when he actually skated quite well there, as did Richard. 11th in such a deep field for someone with no street cred was actually a pretty good result. Not enough for 3 spots but Hersh makes it sound like he bombed at Worlds.

Ross was the 3rd USA skater in a group of 3, one of which (Ryan) had never had ISU cred, the 2nd of whom was a Junior (like Kovtun, competing as a senior), and then there was Ross, who had been 3rd at Jr. Worlds, and been injured most of the previous season.

Ross landed all his stuff at 2011 Worlds:

Here's his scorecard. There is exactly one negative GOE in the bunch. It was a heck of a debut, I thought. His biggest flaw was getting a level 1 on his opening step.
YMMV

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]MEN FREE SKATING JUDGES DETAILS PER SKATER

[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2011

[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Rank Name



[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]Ross MINER USA 147.53 78.75

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]# Executed



[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Ref

[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]2.30

11

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]The Judges Panel

(in random order)

[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]68.78



[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Info

[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]11 0.00


1 CiSt1 1.80 0.50 0 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1

2 3A+2T 9.90 1.14 2 1 1 2 1 1 1 0 1 11.04

3 3Lz+3T 10.10 0.50 1 1 1 2 0 0 1 0 1 10.60

4 3A 8.50 1.00 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 9.50

5 FCCoSp3 3.00 0.29 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 3.29

6 3Lo 5.61 x 0.40 1 0 1 1 0 0 2 1 0 6.01

7 3Lz 6.60 x 1.40 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 2 8.00

8 3S+2T+2T 7.70 x 0.20 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 -1 0 7.90

9 ChSt1 2.00 1.14 0 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 3.14

10 3F 5.83 x 0.80 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 6.63

11 FSSp4 3.00 0.50 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 3.50

12 2A 3.63 x 0.14 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 3.77

13 CCoSp3 3.00 0.07 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 3.07

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]70.67

Program Components

[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]Skating Skills 6.75 6.75 7.00 7.75 7.00 7.00 8.00 6.75 6.75

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Factor

[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]2.00 7.00

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]78.75

[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]Transition / Linking Footwork 2.00 5.75 6.50 6.75 7.00 6.75 6.75 7.25 6.25 6.50 6.64

Performance / Execution 2.00 6.75 6.50 7.25 7.50 7.25 7.25 7.75 6.00 6.50 7.00

Choreography / Composition 2.00 6.25 6.25 7.00 7.25 7.00 7.25 7.50 6.00 6.75 6.82

Interpretation 2.00 6.50 6.25 7.00 7.50 7.25 7.00 8.00 6.50 6.75 6.93

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]Judges Total Program Component Score (factored)
[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]68.78[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]
Deductions: 0.00
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold][/FONT][/FONT]
 
Last edited:

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
I completely disagree that Les Mis is a horrible piece of music. I think it's dramatic, lyrical, and I think Jeremy skated the stuffing out of it. If he had skated as well as he did at last year's Nats we would be talking about how he could medal ahead of the Japanese and challenge Chan on pcs alone! It was a perfect piece of music and beautiful choreography for Jeremy. His level of maturity and his ability to interpret his music made it a marraige on the ice. He just didn't skate clean!!! Now if someone like Nathan Chen skated to it I would tend to agree with serious business. I have to say it was my favorite long program at Nats this year and not just in the men's programs. I just wish he had skated clean. (sound like a broken record here)

As for Jeremy's size.......he is very tall but he has no definition in his arms and has narrow shoulders. I think his costumes the past couple of years have been appropriate for his body type. I think he would look ridiculous in a body suit with sequins at this stage.
 

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Hey, I have a couple quick questions about Jason Brown. Someone mentioned earlier that his coach, Kori Ade, is moving to Colorado Springs, and that Jason will move with her. Is this confirmed? And what about Jason's choreographer, Rohene Ward? Lastly, and I'm not sure if this is okay to ask, but are Kori and Rohene a couple or just coworkers? Scott Hamilton seemed to refer to them as a couple during the NBC telecast, but I may have misinterpreted that. Just wondering. Thanks.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Kori is married & has a family with someone other than Rohene. It isn't necessary to have your choreographer with you at all times, and I imagine Jason will be headed home from Co Springs from time to time. When he does, he can always get some work on his choreography from Rohene, if Rohene isn't skating in one of the European Holiday on Ice tours, something he has been doing of late.

:love: Rohene, BTW
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
You know if judges handed out PCS based on the actual criteria and not how many jumps skaters landed, the gap between Abbott and Aaron would have been so huge, Abbott would have crushed him even with multiple errors on the jumps. Sadly the reality of judging is very different.

I remember that last time I watched Aaron (JGPF two seasons ago I think?), he had a performance worthy of 1.75 IN. He just ignored the music. This season more effort has been put into his choreography and he has improved his presentation slightly but it's still terrible.

It really irks me to see so many people say that Max Aaron was the best skater in the SP & FS overall. He wasn't. He landed the most difficult jumps, yes, but he was far, far from being the best skater overall.

P.S. I owe an apology to Max Aaron, I think he's actually tweezed for Nationals. ;P



This. I really wish more skaters used Dickson instead of Lori Zzzichol.



What is amazing about it? The vast majority of competitive skaters are never able to achieve landing that jump consistently.



He's been competing both at international and national level for ages now. This was his 4th Senior Nationals. He was also a Junior bronze medallist. And he has a gold and a bronze JGP medal and made the JGPF once.
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00010277.htm



It holds true for PCS judging in general. With very very few exceptions, judges never differentiate their PCS marks even though the skaters they are judging usually display very different levels of the PCS abilities.



Yes, something like that. Also, I think that SS is the thing judges notice and care about the most. It was the same during 6.0 days. Presentation mark was basically a skating skills mark even though skating skills were supposed to be evaluated in the technical mark.

ISU really should bring in split judging panels. I believe it's not possible to fully focus on both the elements and the PCS.

A big ITA...:)
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I don't think Jeremy is really that tall. He only looked an inch or two taller than Miner and Farris on the podium, and those two don't strike me as being tall, maybe skater average. Max is really, really tiny though! Not even his height I mean his frame, he's got some big muscles but his frame is very narrow. He is built like a gymnast I'm not surprised if that helps him be such a good jumper.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
If he had skated as well as he did at last year's Nats we would be talking about how he could medal ahead of the Japanese and challenge Chan on pcs alone! It was a perfect piece of music and beautiful choreography for Jeremy. His level of maturity and his ability to interpret his music made it a marraige on the ice. He just didn't skate clean!!!

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. If he had skated as well as he did last year, we'd all be wondering if he wasn't still going to choke at World's, since that has been the established pattern.

And let's be honest... who among us REALLY expected that he would rise to the occassion after Max Aaron threw out that amazing score? Face it... deep down you knew he'd spit the bit, didn't you?

I do think he can still be relevant, but I think he should consider a change of coaching. I loved Yuka Sato as a skater, but I don't think she and Jason have done him any favors from a technical or mental toughness standpoint.

EDIT: grammar
 

dlkksk8fan

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
- Jonathan Cassar's spread eagles...he, by far, over anyone else, benefits from the choreographic step sequence. yes we can knock him on his lack of a competitive jump arsenal. but year in year out, he's back at nationals doing what he loves, performing and skating for fans who appreciate what he DOES DO on the ice. it is a pity he doesn't get more in PCS from the judges...but he made it onto the NBC broadcast
:)
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. If he had skated as well as he did last year, we'd all be wondering if he wasn't still going to choke at World's, since that has been the established pattern.

And let's be honest... who among us REALLY expected that he would rise to the occassion after Max Aaron threw out that amazing score? Face it... deep down you knew he'd spit the bit, didn't you?

I do think he can still be relevant, but I think he should consider a change of coaching. I loved Yuka Sato as a skater, but I don't think she and Jason have done him any favors from a technical or mental toughness standpoint.

EDIT: grammar

If Jeremy at this stage of his career hasn't figured out how to be mentally tough then i don't see a new coach helping him. As for technical i just think his soon to be 28 year old body is getting worn down.
 

Bentley

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Jeremy needs to put more fire into his skating. I thought his LP was rather boring with a lot of arm waving and not much else. He needs to get that spark back like he had the 1st time he won Nationals. His program than was one of the best ever.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Not sure if this has been mentioned (I'm skimming), but for what it's worth, Jeremy was offered an alternate spot and declined it. He declined it to recoup and work on his quad. This came straight from Yuka's mouth in the hotel lobby at the Hilton after the event.

that's good to hear. this way he can just move on and not keep half training "just in case."
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
So given the outcome, I'm curious as to what people think about Max's odds to make the Sochi Olympic team next year? I assume Ross will be on the team, and if there's 3 spots, I'd say Max's chances are pretty good, but if only 2, idk. And I'm not convinced Abbott will be making that team either. It's amazing how different everything seems now from just one year ago in regards to the men.
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Jeremy's program is probably the worst I've seen from him. Very unremarkable and tedious. :(
 
Top