I feel sorry for Caroline Zhang | Golden Skate

I feel sorry for Caroline Zhang

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
caroline got cheated out of at least 6 points in the short.
at least 3 points in the long.

she can skate as clean as she like, well as she likes, not get the scores she deserves or earns.

i can think of one good reason. 1) didn't want her up there-starting why back,
2) complaining her going back to worlds.
3) complaining shouldn't been up in gp when 13, when she was assigned without asking by the usfsa.\
4) the yearly overlooking of ur/downgrades of other skaters, and her continuing hawk like looking at her jumps.


why only the federation, u.s ogm medalist knows-why keep asking them. why cheated for.

hasn't figure skating learned anything regarding the lance armstrong mess about continual cheating, and lying especially to public.
wonder why fans don't want to come back.:rolleye:
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
She has made no improvements in rotating her jumps in the last year, and it has been a persistent problem. I feel bad that the jumps don't come to her as easily now as they did when she was younger, but I think her scores are accurate.
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
After Caroline's short program scores came up, I heard lots of boo's from the audience.
And after her freeskate, the audience rose to their feet and applauded.

Somebody needs to tell those people about her rotations.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Somebody needs to tell those people about her rotations.

A lot of skaters have this problem and I don't know why. If you look at skaters 20 years ago hardly anyone underrotated their jumps. Now that it's penalized you see so much of it; it makes no sense.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
A lot of skaters have this problem and I don't know why. If you look at skaters 20 years ago hardly anyone underrotated their jumps. Now that it's penalized you see so much of it; it makes no sense.

I don't know about that. 20 years ago no-one paid close attention to whether jumps were complete;y rotated or not. It took a really bad effort for the commentators to call a jump "cheated on the landing."
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I don't know about that. 20 years ago no-one paid close attention to whether jumps were complete;y rotated or not. It took a really bad effort for the commentators to call a jump "cheated on the landing."

unless they were ladies that Dick didn't like, then that's all we ever heard about.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I don't exactly "feel sorry" for Caroline. In fact, when she walked off the ice after her long program I felt exhilarated. It was the highlight of the competition for me.

So she didn't win a prize. She got :love: :love: :love: from everyone in the arena and 3.4 million people watching on TV.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I don't exactly "feel sorry" for Caroline. In fact, when she walked off the ice after her long program I felt exhilarated. It was the highlight of the competition for me.

So she didn't win a prize. She got :love: :love: :love: from everyone in the arena and 3.4 million people watching on TV.

Yes indeed. For me also she was one of the great moments.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Under 6.0 judges didn't pay much attention to underrotated jumps plus the scoring system was much more general. Now with COP you can judge a lot of things separately including jumps and give points or take away points using GOE for instance.
 

luckyguy

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Yes indeed. For me also she was one of the great moments.

For me it was at best a moment of nostalgia, a memory of her past, when she was 13-14. The judges saw rightfully that the other girls like Hannah Miller, Angela Wang and Samantha Cesario are better now.
 
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koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
It's clear as day that US fed won't support her. The favourites are Gold and Wagner.
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Caroline's jumps are just not good. She still has no spring, no height and no ice-coverage. The lack of spring and height is why she cannot complete her rotations. And then there's the mulekick flutz. I also noted that as she skated, snow sprayed from her skates. This is indicative of poor basic skating. Zhang was not robbed.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Also, if you watch her basic crossovers, you will see that she doesn't use her under pushing skate correctly which is why she gets no power and because her basic skating has no power, she gets no help from the gliding edge going into her jumps which makes it harder to spring and therefore harder to rotate her jumps.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Second year in a row that Zhang was a real highlight for me. I love it when a skater can skate their best or near it, and have a lovely program and connect with the audience - I'm not saying that, therefore, I think that skater should win, but am saying that it adds, IMO, something very, very lovely to a competition. Zhang gave me goosebumps and I thank her for that and hope she keeps skating 'cuz I want more goosebumps!!

I do think her jumps continue to improve but what appears to be still a major issue, and with this I do agree with maskater93, is her basic skating skills; she really, really needs to work on SS - she needs more edge control, better use of the blades especially with the crossovers, but also steps/turns, and power if she wants to up her competitive ante.

Whatever her goals and hopes, I wish her well. But also want to just agree with MM here - I don't "feel sorry for her" - I feel great that she skated well and made so, so many people happy.
 

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
I was glad to see Caroline skate decently and land her jumps. But I know there are technical issues with her skating, as Dragonlady and Mskater93 pointed out. Also, I felt like her actual performance in the long was pretty flat. It wasn't until the spiral at the end that she expressed any emotion. Up to that point, she was just checking off the elements. I definitely don't feel she was robbed at all.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
As a person who can appreciate Caroline for what she does well, I thought she turned in two excellent performances. Never mind the URs, edge calls or scores...I enjoyed her skating. I thought her SP was good and she really brought the house down in her spiral during the FS.

Caroline is never going to have the speed, difficult combos or basics necessary to be at the top of this sport. It's a sad fact but it's true. Still, I appreciated what she did here, that she went out and fought and stayed upright. For her, that's an accomplishment. The USFSA is basically showing her the door and whether or not she chooses to use it is up to her. She's given me a number of wonderful programs and moments over the years and I'll always remember her for that.

I might do a blog post listing my favorite 5 moments from Miss Zhang :)
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Caroline's jumps are just not good. She still has no spring, no height and no ice-coverage. The lack of spring and height is why she cannot complete her rotations. And then there's the mulekick flutz. I also noted that as she skated, snow sprayed from her skates. This is indicative of poor basic skating. Zhang was not robbed.

I'm not a skater, so I don't have the eye to notice details like the snow spraying from her skates. Thanks for pointing this out. May I ask how she came to acquire this bad habit? Was it her early coaching? I know that I've always heard about her slowness (one GS member who saw her live years ago said that it looked as if she was walking on the ice), and it's sad to me that she would lack such a basic component of skating. Smaller jumps denote a lack of a certain kind of physical ability, and lack of flexibility is another innate body trait that often can't be overcome, though neither of these will keep an otherwise good skater from excelling. But poor skating skills are not related to physical ability. They're related to training. That comes from outside the skater; one can't expect a ten-year-old to know the right way to use the blades.

Is this an approach that once learned can't be unlearned? Caroline is now studying with Karen Kwan and Peter Oppegard, both of whom have strong skating skills. What can they do, or what have they left undone, in this matter?

I'm asking because I enjoy Caroline so much and hate to think that at the ripe old age of twenty or so, she's done for.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
^^The majority of Caroline's problems do stem from the way she was taught to skate and jump. I believe she was without a coach for a while when she was young and learned some of the technique herself...or something like that. I do blame her early coaches though. Her technique in all of her jumps was terrible and they didn't begin to fix it until too late. Her basics are another major problem...all of those things are ingrained at the beginning and it's difficult to unlearn them which is why her rate of improvement is so slow. She's doing better in her jumps but it's obvious from the judges' marks that landing jumps won't be enough to get her out of the basement.
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
saw video she was cheated out in long and short, not take away from gracie
she deserved the scores.
this shouldnt be brought up yearly, why only federation will appreciated true honest answer.
for me they should apologize to public for picked overlooked mistake making skating.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
The reason she - and others - have this bad technique (from my very nonexpert opinion) is due to the fact that after Michelle and Tara hit the scene and landed on top at young ages ALL little girls were pushed to excell early = forget technique, it's not important now that figures are gone. Now technique is important again, but the formidable years of their training gave them bad basics that when pressured they fall back on.

Caroline was slow as a novice and junior and a senior, and was rewarded for it early on, which gave no incentive to fix things. She's playing catch up, it's not fair in some ways, but that's what's happened to many skaters in this system.
 
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