4CC Ladies Free Skate | Page 25 | Golden Skate

4CC Ladies Free Skate

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
But are they? I'd say that Kaetlyn is under more pressure as the only one who can bring back Canada's two spots, but who other than Gracie would the US send? I don't think she's the biggest risk, but she can definitely bring the greatest reward.

Yup... I don't see why people are getting all panicky about Gracie. After US Nationals she was the new golden child and people loved her, but after 4CC she's already being thrown to the dogs. Frankly, I don't think Gao would do much better than Gold at Worlds. Maybe a safer bet, but Gold certainly has the potential to place higher than Gao. It's unfortunate though, since I enjoy watching Gao skate more... but when Gold has all those jumps it's astounding -- it's like, wait, you're executing all that difficulty and you're not from Russia or Asia?! :bow:
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I am not sure \ijun has the pcs to do all that well yet. I think the judges will reward Gold or Osmond if they skate clean. This will be exciting. No one is all that clear cut. Kim hasn't been seen agains the big guns. kostner is always a wild card. Ashley could steal gold or end up out of top 10. Gold could be a surprise gold our out of top ten. Osmond is most likely best top 8 but you never know. Adeline and Liza are absolute crap shoots and rarely skate two clean eprformances. Mao is on the edge - will she rotate her jumps and can she land the 3A. Suzuki has shown singns of brilliance and diasaster. judes will reward her or dump her. Kanako is lovely but I doubt she will medal despite 4ccs. In the end Russia and the US could destroy each other so they both end up with two ladies and they could take down Canada as well If Ashley ends up say 5th, Liza 6th, Adeline in 8th and Gold in 9th. throw in Kanako in 7th and the Chinese in 10th assuming Suzuki gets 4th well you have Canada and the US and Russia all ending up missing their goals
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Can we talk about Kanako Murakami some more?

She deserved Silver at this competition and she has now outskated Suzuki in all 3 competitions this season where they've been up against each other, IMO. It's really just these phantom < calls that are holding her back and I greatly dislike how she keeps being held down as the "3rd Japanese lady". Aside from the flutz, her skating is excellent across the board. Her transitions and spins are better than Suzuki's and her consistency is better at this point too.
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Murakami has one of the best LP of the season. Her LP is like a SP to me, I don't know when it started and when it finished, she is lovely! Some of the "<" she and Mao got(especially on her 2A-3T!) were unfair IMO and probably based on bad reputation since they both have chronic issues with jumps. I'd love to see Kanako's 3T-3T back in the LP in the second half, it was gutsy but I can understand why she doesn't do it anymore. People tend to overlook her but she is getting better slowly. I love how the 3Loop was a nemesis jump for her last season and she didn't have it as a junior if I recall correctly and now it's one of her most solid jumps. Her spiral is amazingly choreographed. Her SP last season was my favorite, I loved the movement she does after the 2A, I watched that program over and over again. If she'd stop getting the "<" on her usually rotated jumps maybe we would see from her 3F-3T again :no: Seeing Mao's 3F-3L back was awesome but sad in the same time because I don't think she'll ever get credit for it and she'll probably score lower for it than a skater who performs a 3T-3T cleanly...
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
I'd love to see Kanako's 3T-3T back in the LP in the second half, it was gutsy but I can understand why she doesn't do it anymore. People tend to overlook her but she is getting better slowly. I love how the 3Loop was a nemesis jump for her last season and she didn't have it as a junior if I recall correctly and now it's one of her most solid jumps. Her spiral is amazingly choreographed. Her SP last season was my favorite, I loved the movement she does after the 2A, I watched that program over and over again. If she'd stop getting the "<" on her usually rotated jumps maybe we would see from her 3F-3T again :no: Seeing Mao's 3F-3L back was awesome but sad in the same time because I don't think she'll ever get credit for it and she'll probably score lower for it than a skater who performs a 3T-3T cleanly...

Yep, all of this is spot-on.

It really is awesome how much Murakami has improved her Loop and she soooo should be putting that 3T-3T in the second half of her LP, like she used to. She never underrotated it and yet it always got the < call. Insane. I've always found her to be a natural performer too and this season she really reached a new level of maturity with her programs. It's beautiful to see.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I think that Kanako's UR calls were really strange: watching the jumps in slow-motion I think that the first 3Lo was UR, but the first 3F was clean: the technical panel said the opposite! :confused:
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Blades of Passion said:
I've always found her to be a natural performer too and this season she really reached a new level of maturity with her programs. It's beautiful to see.

I'd say she already reached that level with last season's SP - it was already the most beautiful program on the ladies side, and you could really see her grow into it as the season progressed.

And her new SP starts with the step sequence, that's just :love:
A very gutsy move. I want her 3T-3T back in the second half of her LP too.

She's developed so much since her junior days but I'm not sure I'd put her in front of Akiko at this point. Besides the UR calls, Kanako is more consistent with her jumps, but Akikos steps are to die for and she just has something special about her, the musicality and interpretation (not saying that Kanako isn't good in that regard too) that still puts her slightly ahead. Kanako will however be the first japanese lady after Sochi, and I'll think she'll do a good job :)
 

Ambivalent

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Murakami should also get a beauty bonus because I love her and she has the best smile in all of figure skating :love:
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Can we talk about Kanako Murakami some more?

She deserved Silver at this competition and she has now outskated Suzuki in all 3 competitions this season where they've been up against each other, IMO. It's really just these phantom < calls that are holding her back and I greatly dislike how she keeps being held down as the "3rd Japanese lady". Aside from the flutz, her skating is excellent across the board. Her transitions and spins are better than Suzuki's and her consistency is better at this point too.

I really like her LP and her musicality and expressiveness, but her posture is quite unpleasant as she sacrifices form for speed and power. She always looks like she has to work so hard to get across the ice. She really needs to work on her upper body, until then skaters with both good skating skills and good carriage will always appear more impressive than her.
 
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mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
You're basically saying that, if a skater isn't slated to win, then should they happen to perform well, and their competitors makes mistakes, then they're lucky to have won. Yes, skaters benefit from higher placements if other skaters falter -- but that's what's supposed to happen.

Because the skater who is considered to be the contender is the one who's going to get a higher PCS mark - it's self-fullfilling prophesy with judging, especially if you read all the negatives people talk about with Patrick Chan having a 3 (or 6 or 9...) fall advantage - so when they DON'T skate well and they DON'T win and someone surpasses them because they were a little stronger technically and get a small bump in PCS for the best skate of the event to push them over the hump (instead being *just* second or third), then it IS a little lucky. I am not detracting from their wins at all; sometimes a little bit of luck in addition to the hard work is what gets someone over the hump and into the mix. Looking back at history: Sarah Hughes was lucky - they left room for the favorites in SLC and they didn't deliver that night and Sarah Hughes ended up with a gold medal and Tara Lipinski got the advantage of skating later than Michelle Kwan. I am not saying it's a BAD thing at all.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Can we talk about Kanako Murakami some more?

She deserved Silver at this competition and she has now outskated Suzuki in all 3 competitions this season where they've been up against each other, IMO. It's really just these phantom < calls that are holding her back and I greatly dislike how she keeps being held down as the "3rd Japanese lady". Aside from the flutz, her skating is excellent across the board. Her transitions and spins are better than Suzuki's and her consistency is better at this point too.


Exactly how did she outskate Suzuki at SC and 4CC? At 4CC they were pretty much neck and neck in the SP (though Kanako's flip was tight, she did have slightly higher levels on spins), and in the FS, Suzuki landed 6 triples and Murakami landed 5. They both singled an axel. I know you're all hung up about these "phantom < calls", but they wouldn't have changed the result at 4CC if Murakami's URs were called clean. The 3F that got a UR call looked fine, but the second 3L was without a doubt UR'ed, and arguably her 2L was also URed in her 3-jump sequence. You nor I have access to what the technical specialist sees on replay, so we can only suggest that there were errors made, but ultimately it's their call and they are the ones qualified and with the resources to make that call.

Don't get me wrong.. I enjoy watching Kanako more than Suzuki, and even prefer Kanako's programs, but the only time Murakami has truly outskated Suzuki was at Japanese nationals in the FS.

It's been three separate competitions (if you count Rostelcom) with different technical specialists who have all marked at least three of Kanako's jumps as URed between the SP and FS. Three out of three times her 2nd 3L has been called as under-rotated. You can hardly call that coincidental. Also, why is her 3F-2A still in there? She hasn't hit it all season and it's a risk if she misses the flip, because then she'll have to take out the triple toe and put in the 2A to have an axel jump.
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I don't have the time or inclination to do exhaustive research on Murakami, but I do recall that Kanako got UR calls as far back as her debut year in the JGP, and she's consistently gotten URs ever since then.

Here was her FS from Worlds 2012: 3ze, 3lo, 3f<df, 3t+3t<, 3f^1a, 1a, 3t+2lo+2lo
 

Laughing Man

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
I don't have the time or inclination to do exhaustive research on Murakami, but I do recall that Kanako got UR calls as far back as her debut year in the JGP, and she's consistently gotten URs ever since then.

Here was her FS from Worlds 2012: 3ze, 3lo, 3f<df, 3t+3t<, 3f^1a, 1a, 3t+2lo+2lo

Oh so what? Her performances overall were well done, they were both passionate, speedy, and packed with energy.
Why do some people go on making so much or a big deal about URs, ignoring more serious mistakes like falls and pops which obviously distracts the audience much more from the entire program?

One of the reasons this sport isn't popular is because there have been cases where skaters with slight URs have ranked lower than skaters who fell, popped or stepped out. I'm sure that pleases all you tech-panelist wannabes, but the fact is, most people appreciate a performance with some URs over those with falls and other clearly visible mistakes. When they see a performance which moved them, but find out later that it wasn't higly scored as they expected because of some slight URs, it disappoints and frustrates them. I think those are the moments which lead lots of people off from the sport.

So those who want to go on babbling about URs, go ahead and satisfy your ego and arrogance; but keep in mind it's not going to do anything good for the sport at all. Besides, Kanako knows well more than any of you she has UR problems. She has been continuously saying in interviews afterwards that she's going to work harder to overcome them as much as she can. It's not like she wants to UR on purpose. Just give her a break and leave her alone, along with the rest of the skaters who have UR issues.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Oh so what? Her performances overall were well done, they were both passionate, speedy, and packed with energy.
Why do some people go on making so much or a big deal about URs, ignoring more serious mistakes like falls and pops which obviously distracts the audience much more from the entire program?

One of the reasons this sport isn't popular is because there have been cases where skaters with slight URs have ranked lower than skaters who fell, popped or stepped out. I'm sure that pleases all you tech-panelist wannabes, but the fact is, most people appreciate a performance with some URs over those with falls and other clearly visible mistakes. When they see a performance which moved them, but find out later that it wasn't higly scored as they expected because of some slight URs, it disappoints and frustrates them. I think those are the moments which lead lots of people off from the sport.

So those who want to go on babbling about URs, go ahead and satisfy your ego and arrogance; but keep in mind it's not going to do anything good for the sport at all. Besides, Kanako knows well more than any of you she has UR problems. She has been continuously saying in interviews afterwards that she's going to work harder to overcome them as much as she can. It's not like she wants to UR on purpose. Just give her a break and leave her alone, along with the rest of the skaters who have UR issues.

I agree that her programs are lovely to watch with great energy and speed and artistry. But this is a sport, and if you don't perform technically clean elements, then you should not be as successful as those who do. Under CoP there are several skaters who wouldn't be as successful, like Kwan, due to URs and flutzes and the like, but it doesn't mean they're bad skaters... just not ideal for the current system.

I think people get hung up on UR for the reasons you said... their favourites are not winning in spite of seemingly lovely programs. Kanako is one of my favourites too, but I can concede her losing when she doesn't fully rotate her jumps, and it's good to hear that she can too and is working to improve that. Kanako is lucky that URs still get 70% of the value of the element. I think that's pretty fair for a jump that wasn't fully executed. And in many cases even if she weren't called as UR, she'd still not win.
 

Bartek

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Exactly how did she outskate Suzuki at SC and 4CC? At 4CC they were pretty much neck and neck in the SP (though Kanako's flip was tight, she did have slightly higher levels on spins), and in the FS, Suzuki landed 6 triples and Murakami landed 5. They both singled an axel. I know you're all hung up about these "phantom < calls", but they wouldn't have changed the result at 4CC if Murakami's URs were called clean. The 3F that got a UR call looked fine, but the second 3L was without a doubt UR'ed, and arguably her 2L was also URed in her 3-jump sequence. You nor I have access to what the technical specialist sees on replay, so we can only suggest that there were errors made, but ultimately it's their call and they are the ones qualified and with the resources to make that call.

Don't get me wrong.. I enjoy watching Kanako more than Suzuki, and even prefer Kanako's programs, but the only time Murakami has truly outskated Suzuki was at Japanese nationals in the FS.

It's been three separate competitions (if you count Rostelcom) with different technical specialists who have all marked at least three of Kanako's jumps as URed between the SP and FS. Three out of three times her 2nd 3L has been called as under-rotated. You can hardly call that coincidental. Also, why is her 3F-2A still in there? She hasn't hit it all season and it's a risk if she misses the flip, because then she'll have to take out the triple toe and put in the 2A to have an axel jump.

In fact these are not "phantom < calls". I have no idea why Blades of Passion claims on every occasion that her UR's were undeserved but thruthfully they WERE. If you look very closely where exactly she took off her flip you'll see that it rightfully got "<" mark. I know it might be deceiving because she goes straight through half of the rink but right before the take off she "twists" her left foot to the right so much that her blade is actually parallel to the side of the rink and from this very place we should start counting the rotations. British Eurosport version enables us to see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De6jLzgGhZ8 Stop the video at 6:20 and watch the set-up closely and then at 6:23 when she lands. It's clearly obvious that the jump is underrotated. Actually, she is lucky she doesn't get more "<" signs. Both jumps in her 3Lo+2T were so borderline that she could very well have gotten "<" signs had the celler been more strict. I don't deny that Kanako has interesting choreography, more transitions than Akiko who has none, and her spins are better as well but nevertheless she should not be winning with those unserrotated jumps while Akiko does fully rotate them. What's more, Akiko feels her music really well and is able to project the emotions to the audience on a whole different level than Kanako and in my opinion it makes up for the lack of transitions when we compare their PCS.
 
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