2013 4cc Free Dance | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2013 4cc Free Dance

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
The rules clearly state that if you interrupt a program, you start from where you stopped.

Virtue/Moir stopped after a failed lift attempt.

Hence, they should not have been allowed to repeat the lift. The rules are totally unambiguous on that and I really cannot believe that the referee has allowed this to happen. :rolleye:

Other than that, judging has made me furious as usual. I feel like I was watching a totally different competition.

I can't understand at all how Shibutanis could have clearly beaten Chock/Bates who had more flow, more expression and a more complex program with quite a lot of choreographic detail. I also can't understand how Gilles/Poirier whose elements weren't very strong and who still look like he's dragging her across the ice could have placed 3rd in the FD. They didn't do too badly but their performance was nowhere near the level of both of the American teams.

This. x a gazillion. I've been a big fan of the Chock/Bates FS since it was first skated this season, and I just don't see how Poirier manages to pull off these huge scores for something I see as a good but middling program. C/B lack the polish that Samuelson and Bates had, but I do think that is simply a matter of time: they've only been together for a relatively short time. I think they'll really come into their own during the next quad.
 

icefan1005

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
These events could be interpreted as a demonstration of the effects of competition pressure. D/W again demonstrated that they are the most consistent competitors in putting out skates that could win any world championship. They seem to do it nearly every time. V/M, for whatever reasons that are known, always seem to have seasons where they are developing a program and peaking with a full-potential program later in the seasons for the "big" competitions.

The scores D/W received were huge and better than what V/M had previously received. They had little experience skating that perfect Carmen program in competition this season. It is still in development. I am sure that after that D/W skate, it caused nerves and anxiety in V/M. She could have had a "panic attack" or enough anxiety to cause her to breath incorrectly during the skating, causing hyperventiltion or shortness of breath.

It looks to me that she simply, as described above, choked.

Now let's discuss.

We don't really know what happened. It seemed like they were talking before going into the lift.
 

vera01

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
I totally agree. That's why this sport is getting less and less popular. It's a big joke with the judging. One couple lays an egg on the ice after a failed lift attempt where he was too tired to lift her and gets to start again with no penalty whatsoever. Other couple gets their scores totally inflated with a B level program. Looks like the judges at this event must have been on Skate Canada payroll.

You're saying as if there was nothing wrong with Tessa, they just decided to take a nice little break because they were "so tired".
 

icefan1005

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
I totally agree. That's why this sport is getting less and less popular. It's a big joke with the judging. One couple lays an egg on the ice after a failed lift attempt where he was too tired to lift her and gets to start again with no penalty whatsoever. Other couple gets their scores totally inflated with a B level program. Looks like the judges at this event must have been on Skate Canada payroll.

Weren't the Shibs allowed to restart at COR though? Like what happened here...
 

flaneur

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
erm... i didn't get the impression that scott was the one who couldn't continue... it is pretty evident that tessa said something to him during the beginning of the entrance embrace that caused the stoppage.

the situation reminded me a lot of the shibutanis at COR
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Can D/W fans get any more pathetic? Bashing V/M before knowing what's going on. It's brave of V/M to continue the program, and I'm sure they did it for the audience. They knew they wouldn't win when they stopped. Do you really think they cared for the silver medal enough to risk their health? Show some humanity and respect!

Hey I resent your broad statement please remember some of us D/W fans are V/M fans too.

Congrats to D/W for a truly amazing skate! Congrats to Tessa and Scott for winning the Silver
and to Chock/Bates for winning the Bronze!

All of the skaters in the final group were just fabulous! I really enjoyed this competition.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Weren't the Shibs allowed to restart at COR though? Like what happened here...

Yes but they were severely penalized. thats why I mentioned in another post that the Shibs should have pulled a "Tessa 4Continents 2011" instead of allowing themselves to be beaten by that Junior team. That loss is really what tarnished them for the rest of the season
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
This. x a gazillion. I've been a big fan of the Chock/Bates FS since it was first skated this season, and I just don't see how Poirier manages to pull off these huge scores for something I see as a good but middling program. C/B lack the polish that Samuelson and Bates had, but I do think that is simply a matter of time: they've only been together for a relatively short time. I think they'll really come into their own during the next quad.

Chock/Bates looked pretty terrible last season and I am quite astounded with how much they have improved. Both of their programs actually looked very polished to me. Elegant, flowed well, presented with a lot of attack and expression.

Gilles/Poirier are definitely promising. She's got lovely lines, they have good chemistry and present their programs quite well but there's a lot of work to be done on her basic skating and the elements are not there yet. They aren't bad but there's a lot of work ahead of them and I don't understand why they are being scored so highly already. I think they might be politicked heavily.
 

figuristka

Medalist
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Can D/W fans get any more pathetic? Bashing V/M before knowing what's going on. It's brave of V/M to continue the program, and I'm sure they did it for the audience. They knew they wouldn't win when they stopped. Do you really think they cared for the silver medal enough to risk their health? Show some humanity and respect!

Also agree. I think its a skaters worst nightmare to have to stop their program because to illness, accident etc Iam sure it means so much to them to be able to skate their program in its entirety. They have the most difficult complex program and this adds to the risk.
 

CassAgain

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
The marks seems a bit generous for V/M, especially since they were allowed a second attempt at the lift. Looking at the protocols, I think D/W would have eeked out a victory either way based on TES.
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Also agree. I think its a skaters worst nightmare to have to stop their program because to illness, accident etc Iam sure it means so much to them to be able to skate their program in its entirety. They have the most difficult complex program and this adds to the risk.

I think if a program is too hard for you, dont do it!
 

skatingfan04

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
From what I could tell, Scott didn't lift Tessa off of the ice before they stopped, so the lift hadn't actually begun yet. As far as I know, you need to begin the entry for it to count as an attempted element. When they stopped they were simply skating on two feet, so I think the re-start was fair.

D/W skated lights out, and deserved the win. I think V/M have a better program overall, but they didn't deserve the win with the interruption, and they didn't get it. It all seems fair to me. I'm just glad Tessa seemed to be OK at the end. Wouldn't want anyone hurt before worlds.

What I'm still scratching my head about is Gilles/Poirier. Where did the 97 point come from?? :confused:
 

flaneur

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
I totally agree. That's why this sport is getting less and less popular. It's a big joke with the judging. One couple lays an egg on the ice after a failed lift attempt where he was too tired to lift her and gets to start again with no penalty whatsoever. Other couple gets their scores totally inflated with a B level program. Looks like the judges at this event must have been on Skate Canada payroll.

bwahahaha... sorry, that made me laugh. canadian athletic groups are extremely underfunded. i'm not sure what they would be payrolling the judges with... ;)
 

vera01

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Yes, V/M are slightly overscored, but they would've won silver medal anyway even if the judges hadn't been "generous".
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
From what I could tell, Scott didn't lift Tessa off of the ice before they stopped, so the lift hadn't actually begun yet. As far as I know, you need to begin the entry for it to count as an attempted element. When they stopped they were simply skating on two feet, so I think the re-start was fair.

But you restart where you stopped. They stopped after the lift failed to go up and they restarted before the lift.
 

figureskate

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Yes but they were severely penalized. thats why I mentioned in another post that the Shibs should have pulled a "Tessa 4Continents 2011" instead of allowing themselves to be beaten by that Junior team. That loss is really what tarnished them for the rest of the season

If I remember well, the situation there was quite similar. They stopped before the rotational lift, that however, wasn't counted out, but received a level 4, and they didn't get any penalties either
 

apple123

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
First of all, I'm not referring to you. Secondly, I wouldn't call myself a fan if I do not show any concern when my players are in pain/trouble.(Now I'm referring to you.) Who cares about the damn silver medal?

Hey I resent your broad statement please remember some of us D/W fans are V/M fans too.

Congrats to D/W for a truly amazing skate! Congrats to Tessa and Scott for winning the Silver
and to Chock/Bates for winning the Bronze!

All of the skaters in the final group were just fabulous! I really enjoyed this competition.
 

vera01

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
D/W never had a same situation, so we don't know if judges are just being generous to V/M or if that lift actually counts.

I'm not sure about other dancers. I never saw a similar situation before-dancers having to stop right before their lift begins.
 

Marta25

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
From what I could tell, Scott didn't lift Tessa off of the ice before they stopped, so the lift hadn't actually begun yet. As far as I know, you need to begin the entry for it to count as an attempted element. When they stopped they were simply skating on two feet, so I think the re-start was fair.

D/W skated lights out, and deserved the win. I think V/M have a better program overall, but they didn't deserve the win with the interruption, and they didn't get it. It all seems fair to me. I'm just glad Tessa seemed to be OK at the end. Wouldn't want anyone hurt before worlds.

What I'm still scratching my head about is Gilles/Poirier. Where did the 97 point come from?? :confused:

Both Europeans and 4CC had very generous judging in ice dance.You can't tell me that G/P,a couple where he is much stronger than her,deserve a GOE of +2 on a step sequence.Besides Vandenbroeck and Dostatni seem to be very generous in giving out the levels.
 
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