2013 4cc Free Dance | Page 9 | Golden Skate

2013 4cc Free Dance

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
A small part of me wonders if D/W aren't Marina's favorites... way deep down in her heart.

I think D/W have the superior concept for the SD... and I think "Carmen" has put V/M at disadvantage in the FD, because it has become so trite, no matter what innovation they've brought to it.

For the Olympic season, if Marina selects something like Egyptian music and has Scott and Tessa doing "Steve Martin/King Tut" arm gestures... then we'll know for sure.

Eh we used to hear the opposite last year: that D/W were Shpilland's fave and V/M were Zoeuva's babies. The more things change...

Carmen is a risky program. Funny Face was not--it was definitely within Moir's wheelhouse, the same way that Notre Dame is firmly within Marlie's wheelhouse. It is overtly sexual, it incorporates modern dance moves into a traditional ice dance--I wonder if it makes some judges nervous.
 

icefan1005

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
sidebar (that got waaaay to long...oops!):
i'm STILL not sold on this Carmen program for Tessa and Scott...i can appreciate the difficulty and interpretation and choreography, but i'm just not buying it. they just look like they're a little too frantic and trying too hard to sell the program. The program really got my attention me at the beginning of the season, but now i'm just not that interested in it...that could be because i think there's too much going on and this program just isn't suited to their style, while i do appreciate them pushing themselves/find something challenging, but something's not working. This was the issue I had with Tessa and Scott last year too. i find that in pushing themselves they almost "bite off more than they can chew"...i though last year's FD was just a mess, and just couldn't enjoy it...

on the other hand, i continue to be impressed by Meryl and Charlie's Notre Dame de Paris (as i mentioned previously after US nationals, I think this program may be on par/have the potential of surpassing any other program D/W have done, including Samson and Delilah). At the beginning of the season, this program seemed like there was TOO much going on -- lots of impressive technical elements, extremely emotional, full of choreography/interpretation, but this program is actually reaching perfection. Meryl and Charlie have been the hardest working skaters I have since they moved into the international spotlight...they're fist couple of seasons they worked to close the gap and become one of the best. And now that they are, they've continued to find way to improve, but they've done it season by season by focusing on a few things.
Until 2010 Charlie and Meryl excelled by selling a story, but it became their trademark to have these big flashy FDs based off the music. Since Vancouver, they're Tango FD was about pushing themselves in technique and do something to elevate the level of skill and nuance in movement in their skating...that season, they weren't exciting to watch, but would could see that they wanted their technique and intricacies to speak for themselves. Die Fliedermaus was all about performance and interpretation...they wanted to transport the audience to a time and place and just enjoy the moment with them. This season, it's been about building emotional connection, actually using choreography to embellish and create a story on ice...they want to move the audience to tears, and they're succeeding. At this point, all these little things are going to culminate into something for them going into Sochi.

I just feel like Tessa and Scott have been a little lost artistically...it's like they're skating b/c they still can and are always in a 1-2 race, but they don't actually know what/how they want to skate. D/W clearly have had a plan, I'm just not sure V/M did (they've always been better from the get go and I feel like it's come easier for them naturally) and now that Sochi is a year away, they're looking a little frantic b/c they still haven't figured out how they want/will be better than they were in Vancouver.

Different opinions then. A lot of fans love V/M's Carmen (from what I've seen) & there are some that dislike Notre Dame. It depends on the fans & his/her preference. I do think both teams will be ready for the Olympics. Marina has probably planned both of their programs a year or two in advance.
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Leg cramps for athletes are a by-product of overexertion, dehydration, and sub-optimal conditioning. This muddies the situation rather than clears it up.

They shouldn't have been allowed to do that lift, and further be heavily penalized in PCS for stopping so that they didn't get silver. Maybe place fourth or fifth or something. That would have been okay, IMO.
 

figureskater1995

Spectator
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
I really don't think V/M's incident was intentional & I know you said if, but even suggesting that it was is sad.

I said that because everyone is implying that and it is hard to ignore it, not because of V/M, but because if that is allowed without any deductions, it can be easily exploited - I strongly believe you agree, it is the point (and sadly right moment) where it is completely legitimate to question the judging system.
I know that Tessa has a lot of problems with her shins and that she had few surgeries in the past and I am sure this is the reason for their "break" during the program, but in the same time it is OK to ask ourselves why didn`t they withdraw from competition like in 2011.
I really hope, that everything is fine with V/M and that they will be able to make another outstanding triumphantly performance in their hometown on worlds, I just wrote some facts about this season, according to which everything is suggesting on D/W victory. D/W are technically excellent, and this year they also made a lot of progress on their chemistry on the ice and they weren`t injured etc. I personally prefer V/M in all segments of performance, because they always bring new inspiration to the ice, they are likeable:love: and also have excellent technique. But in the same time because of all the injuries, enormous expectations etc they have to put 100times more effort in their program and that`s where I`m asking myself, whether they are able to overcome this this year too :)
 

Ice Diva

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
LOL! The armchair "experts" have their knives out & sharpened before they even know what caused V/M to stop in their program. The last thing elite ice dancers want is to stop the flow of their program & it would be something extreme for V/M to do so. My parents, both of whom are figure skating coaches & judges, say the program interruption was handled completely correctly & adhered to the ISU Rules. Even with the interruption, V/m's program IMO was by far the most dynamic & exciting of the competition: their expression of modern dance just amazing, their connection, body lines, unison and edges surpass everyone.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I do think both teams will be ready for the Olympics. Marina has probably planned both of their programs a year or two in advance.

I recall and interview or commentator blurb from a year or so ago. Even then, Marina had selected the FD music for all her teams.

At the time, I speculated that D/W would have something very ballroom, but after reviewing the Finnstep I've had to revise. Marina won't put out two look-alike programs for her teams.
 

icebeauty

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Was that the competition were they were setting up a lift (she leaned over, he put his arm over her waist - although he was suppose to place it under), then they aborted? As I recall, they were also permitted to restart from the lift.

nope you're think of COR from this season...(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lci9qn6tJs)
i was referring to this skate, where you could CLEARLY tell Alex was struggling in the second half/sounding like he was coughing up a lung afterwards...(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEbslHn0-js)
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
V and M, I feel for them but D and W have a plan, they know who they ae and they stay in that realm. there is no advantage for V and M really to push their envelope. They are trying something different with Carmen. It is like Pink Floyd. Part of me wants Davis and White to win Oly gold because they were second the last time and the other wants V and M. Justice is all in one's mind. Some could say yes D and W are great give them gold. But as we know life isn't always fair. And in some cases karma and in others bad luck and well it all depends on your view or bias or perspective or... I always felt sorry Brian Orser didn't win gold and same with Kwan, Browning and heck Liz Manley. Usova and Zhulin different rules may have allowed them to win, different skating orders (rules because they changed over the years and would have undoubtedly affected the results). I always thought but is is just my opinon Usova and Zhulin deserved an Oly gold and krylova and oksianikov but life isn't fair.. I do feel that V and m have to regain their skating skills they are getting killed by D and W - you would think they would fight harder. Ditto for Shibs - nice team but they really have to fight to regain no. 2 in the US from world bronze to national bronze is not great.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Congrats to Meryl and Charlie
Chock/Bates solidified as U.S. No. 2

by next Season 3rd place will be between Hubell/Donohue and Aldrige/Eaton
the Shibutanis will probably be 5th in US ranking by next Season. I think its time for them to separate and try luck with another partner
 

rvi5

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
I know that Tessa has a lot of problems with her shins and that she had few surgeries in the past and I am sure this is the reason for their "break" during the program, but in the same time it is OK to ask ourselves why didn`t they withdraw from competition like in 2011.
Maybe they needed the judges feedback on some of the changes they had made to the program. 4CC would be their last chance before Worlds.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Skater Boy, I have to agree with your assessment of the Shibs. I'm not sure what is going on there. Perhaps growth and development is just taking a while.

Their first year out, I loved their SD, really liked their FD, and was thrilled to see them on the podium at Worlds. Since then, they've just left me kind of feeling flat when I watch them, and I don't have the first idea why.
 

icebeauty

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Different opinions then. A lot of fans love V/M's Carmen (from what I've seen) & there are some that dislike Notre Dame. It depends on the fans & his/her preference.

i agree that we all have our preferences, and clearly D/W and V/M are very different in style so it's difficult to compare them head to head. but i just don't think V/M and Marina went in the right direction with the Carmen program. like every time i watch it i'm impressed, but it seems empty probably b/c Carmen is just one of those musical selection you should avoid regardless of how great you are b/c it's just overused and we've already seen every interpretation of it...it just seems like there hasn't been development/improvement even with the changes.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
FREE DANCE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)

1. Meryl DAVIS & Charlie WHITE (USA) - 187.36 Free Dance, 2nd Copy, Interview
2. Tessa VIRTUE & Scott MOIR (CAN) - 184.32 Free Dance, 2nd Copy
3. Madison CHOCK & Evan BATES (USA) - 160.42 Free Dance
4. Maia SHIBUTANI & Alex SHIBUTANI (USA) - 159.97 Free Dance
5. Piper GILLES & Paul POIRIER (CAN) - 157.83 Free Dance
6. Nicole ORFORD & Thomas WILLIAMS (CAN) - 139.10 Free Dance
7. Cathy REED & Chris REED (JPN) - 131.04 Free Dance
8. Danielle OBRIEN & Gregory MERRIMAN (AUS) - 123.88 Free Dance
9. Xiaoyang YU & Chen WANG (CHN) - 108.82
10. Anna NAGORNYUK & Viktor KOVALENKO (UZB) - 107.02
11. Emi HIRAI & Marien DE LA ASUNCION (JPN) - 105.56 Free Dance
12. Bryna OI & Taiyo MIZUTANI (JPN) - 89.80 Free Dance
13. Pilar MAEKAWA & Leonardo MAEKAWA (MEX) - 85.02

Complete Final Warm-Up Group

Medal Ceremony: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3
 
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icebeauty

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Skater Boy, I have to agree with your assessment of the Shibs. I'm not sure what is going on there. Perhaps growth and development is just taking a while.

Their first year out, I loved their SD, really liked their FD, and was thrilled to see them on the podium at Worlds. Since then, they've just left me kind of feeling flat when I watch them, and I don't have the first idea why.

I adore the Shibs, and it's frustrating to see them a little all over the leaderboard for the past two seasons, but i don't i could ever see them skating with anyone else. I think we forget that they are young, and being Asian, they don't look their age and will look like "kids" compared to their competitors (I'm speaking from experience, I look like I could be in high school, but have been out of college for 2 years now...I was born here in the states, but am asian by ethnicity). Obviously adding in the element that they are siblings, I think it's hard for them to have programs that keep them competitive all the time, certain styles work better for them, the classic-look/straight dance method is their go to. This year with Memoirs of a Geisha, the program is BEAUTIFUL in my opinion, but it's almost too nuanced that unless you you're really studying the program you miss a lot. Also, as someone who has studied Japanese history and culture for school, I personally know that I appreciate the program from an interpretation standpoint than the regular skating fan/audience b/c I know more about Japanese dance and Geisha culture, which is extremely nuanced and delicate, than most people.
I hope that they aren't running out of ideas for programs b/c i do enjoy watching them skate (their flow, skating quality, quiet blades, beautiful lines, etc) even if they aren't exciting to watch
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
Congrats to Meryl and Charlie
Chock/Bates solidified as U.S. No. 2

by next Season 3rd place will be between Hubell/Donohue and Aldrige/Eaton
the Shibutanis will probably be 5th in US ranking by next Season. I think its time for them to separate and try luck with another partner

I totally agree... and now that I think about it, the USFSA was smart as hell to send them to World's this year over Hubbell (Although I would prefer Hubbell to go). The USFSA know that the Shibs are more than likely going to finish between 8-10 at Worlds. With D/W finishing second that would guarantee 3 spots for worlds/olympics next season. C/B are an unknown factor at worlds so they cannot predict where they will finish. Hubbell would have also been a slight risk to send this year. Now next year all bets are off and the Shibs should be knocked out by the Hubbells or someone else.
 

icefan1005

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
LOL! The armchair "experts" have their knives out & sharpened before they even know what caused V/M to stop in their program. The last thing elite ice dancers want is to stop the flow of their program & it would be something extreme for V/M to do so. My parents, both of whom are figure skating coaches & judges, say the program interruption was handled completely correctly & adhered to the ISU Rules. Even with the interruption, V/m's program IMO was by far the most dynamic & exciting of the competition: their expression of modern dance just amazing, their connection, body lines, unison and edges surpass everyone.

Well, that's good to hear (your parents' opinion). I also agree with you completely.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I totally agree... and now that I think about it, the USFSA was smart as hell to send them to World's this year over Hubbell (Although I would prefer Hubbell to go). The USFSA know that the Shibs are more than likely going to finish between 8-10 at Worlds. With D/W finishing second that would guarantee 3 spots for worlds/olympics next season. C/B are an unknown factor at worlds so they cannot predict where they will finish. Hubbell would have also been a slight risk to send this year. Now next year all bets are off and the Shibs should be knocked out by the Hubbells or someone else.

at Nationals I was even surprised that H/D did not knock out the Shibs for the national bronze
but by next Season H/D should have no problem being US No.3 while A/E will probably compete with the Shibs for No. 4
 

blackswanphoto

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
at Nationals I was even surprised that H/D did not knock out the Shibs for the national bronze
but by next Season H/D should have no problem being US No.3 while A/E will probably compete with the Shibs for No. 4

The other thing that annoys me about the Shibs (besides the fact that they are a refrigerator break) is that they refuse to address the issue or change coaches. They have gotten the short end of the stick the past 2 seasons and still just sitting there doing nothing about it. Their strategy of waiting for V/M and D/W to retire in order to get Marina's attention may backfire.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
The other thing that annoys me about the Shibs (besides the fact that they are a refrigerator break) is that they refuse to address the issue or change coaches. They have gotten the short end of the stick the past 2 seasons and still just sitting there doing nothing about it. Their strategy of waiting for V/M and D/W to retire in order to get Marina's attention may backfire.

they sealed their fate with Zueva , they would have been back had they went to Shipilband last summer now its too late at least until past 2014
 
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