2013 4cc Free Dance | Page 12 | Golden Skate

2013 4cc Free Dance

IndieBoi

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
And what exactly is the "health problem"? Scott skated over to the judges and asked to re-start. Where did he explain the health problem?

A leg cramp at two different 4CC's? Not buying it.

So, does "Carmen" put a stop to the old argument that D/W skate to "easier, well-known music" and V/M skate to "difficult, more obscure music"?



But she did stop?

And yet Charlie keeps going, with asthma, no excuses there...

These comments are getting really ridiculous. Tessa skated through pain leading up to the Olympics without letting anybody know – so yes, she is a warrior! This definitely is not new news. When you get a cramp in the middle of a program with lifts etc. still to be completed, you’re not only risking yourself, but also your partner hence they stopped. I’ve had cramps during tennis and even when the cramps subsided the pain would still linger. Tessa fought the pain and chose to pick up and finish the program and I think that’s admirable.

I don’t buy that they *took an easy way * because they’re *nervous* - Please, these two are Olympic Gold Medallists, Two-Time World Champions, and have been on the Worlds podium in the past five years. Handing their nerves at 4CC should be within their range. :sarcasm:
 
Last edited:

cjsk8fan

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Well, that was a strange reaction to leg cramps. No grimacing or rubbing the leg. When I have them, I let out a scream!!!! lmao
I thought the same thing...or I stretch. Not saying she didn't have leg cramps, it just was not evident.
 

CassAgain

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2004
She did pick up her leg pretty much immediately after they didn't do the lift and continued to pick up the leg throughout the pause.

I don't doubt that her leg was hurt, and this was probably the last thing Tessa and Scott wanted to have happen today.
 

conga

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
It's odd that Tessa didn't look to be favoring her leg, or even rub or massage her leg at all during the break. Or am I missing something? If she was cramping, it doesn't look like it was too severe.

Neither did Alex Shibutani and that seemed quite weird since it's almost reflexive.
 

leil

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
actually that's not what i was saying...i was saying that Tessa has skated through worse which is why i'm not buying the leg cramps story...

I was trying to explain that for the "leg injury" to be plausible, IMO, it would have to be so bad that they couldn't continue, period. Furthermore, if it's something sustained in training/Tessa was having flare-ups I would think they would/should have withdrawn...this is with Tessa's history being taken into account. If she was already having leg issues going into this competition, they shouldn't have skated. She should at this point in her career be smart enough about her condition to know what she can and cannot skate through and what will worsen the problem. If she was healthy enough to be at the competition then either the problem is no worse than normal or manageable enough that she shouldn't have to stop...That's why i'm having a problem with the reason the team is providing. Trust me, if it was Scott who had a problem or really any other reason, i'd be fine with it. considering Tessa's lack of a reaction during the break in regards to her legs, i'm doubtful/skeptical that the story is the truth.
To me, the video seems to reveal that it was Scotts decision to not go into the lift/stop the program. So if it was his arm rather than Tessa's legs that was the problem, I'm actually very fine with the situation (although that leads into a whole other discussion about how cramps result...which was started earlier this afternoon...in regard sto hydration, poor training/lack or rest, etc) b/c the fact that they could do the rest of the program including lifts without much incident is applaudable especially with regards to the risks involved.
(before the leg cramps were revealed to be the problem, and we thought it was a breathing issue, i was fine with it -- at least in regards to how the situation was handled. I just chose to point out instances in my morning posts where skaters have fought through difficulty breathing and that we'd be going down a slippery slope if "needing to catch your breath" is going to be a plausible reason going forward)

and also, to say that having a skater skate through pain/injury the kind of sportsmanship i respect is entirely false. I use to dance, and have had my share of mishaps on stage, some were just embarrassing, others involved blood (cuts/scratches) or resulted in some ugly bruises, and some were just hell. i know i've danced through injuries that i really shouldn't have but i was too stubborn to stop - on stage/take time off - classes/rehearsals...and trust me, i don't recommend it to anyone...it's not intelligent to do that to your body.

you said "otherwise i would have preferred that they skate through it (albeit with a probably sub-par skate)." and that's what i took it to mean: tessa should have skated through the pain. to me though, IF tessa had something go wrong with her leg and a break is all she needed to help, then i don't want her to ignore it and just skate through it. that's how you exacerbate injuries. and having followed that leg injury over the years, that's one injury that i do not want to flare up.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
IceBeauty said:
To me, the video seems to reveal that it was Scotts decision to not go into the lift/stop the program. So if it was his arm rather than Tessa's legs that was the problem, I'm actually very fine with the situation...

The video evidence taken by itself does give more support to the guess about Scott's hand.

But if so, then we can hardly be "fine" with Scott trying to put the blame on Tessa.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I am watching the FD on Universal Sports TV. Am waiting to hear if a reason is given for the pause....
Just before the lift, Scott starts talking to Tessa, shaking his head, gesturing with his left hand and speaking forcefully. She did not seem to be having trouble breathing nor was she favoring a leg.

The commentator said the stop was "due to an injury" but did not say what the injury was or who had the injury.
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
She did pick up her leg pretty much immediately after they didn't do the lift and continued to pick up the leg throughout the pause.

I don't doubt that her leg was hurt, and this was probably the last thing Tessa and Scott wanted to have happen today.

I agree. They respect the sport so much that I doubt that what they did was cheating. Some of the previous posts said that she didnt overly outly express the pain from leg cramps. There are ways to adage pain without screaming, shouting or swearing. Also, remember that their ultimate goal this season is worlds 2013. If there was a problem with Tessa, it would be better to stop than to continue and cause injury.
 

hitchem

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Another problem with the rule is that skaters seem completely able to give whatever reason they'd like for stopping. When we've seen interruptions, there haven't been any medical evaluations (in comparison to tennis, which posters compared this to), but the skaters themselves just seem to tell the referee what to do. Fans are left to break down videos to figure out if there's an injury and which partner might be injured. It's ridiculous.
 

icebeauty

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
The video evidence taken by itself does give more support to the guess about Scott's hand.

But if so, then we can hardly be "fine" with Scott trying to put the blame on Tessa.

in that context, I wouldn't be "fine" with placing the blame on Tessa. I was saying that i'd be fine for the whole injury/break/start/stop/"repeated" elements discussion if the reason provided was Scott's arm rather than Tessa's legs...

i guess it's not fair of me to say that when I see Tessa shake out her legs, i don't react/am not super concerned about it only b/c she does that frequently -- it's how i imagine she deals with her leg issues, but to not see her massage her legs during the break makes the story seem contrived...furthermore, i agree with the poster above about how it's incredibly difficulty/frustrating for us to see that these discussions/decisions happen only between skaters and coach then with skater and referee without consultation from a 3rd party...it just makes the whole situation a bit suspect.

I wholeheartedly believe that Tessa or Scott -- whoever had the problem -- had a real/acceptable reason to stop. I by no means think that they "cheated," in anyway. Although, I do think the rules need to be re-evaluted/revisited...at least in regards to if deductions should be made and if a proper evaluation needs to be made if it is medical. Currently, the reasons being provided doesn't exactly make the most sense, especially when you take into account the video as well as the teams history where Tessa has skated through worse pain.

I'm not targeting V/M because if this was any other team, i'd pretty much be saying the same thing as i've already said...there isn't a lot of transparency or proof that the reason being provided is true...so it's just hard for me to take it at face value and it's reflecting poorly on my feelings about V/M.
I apologize for being so skeptical. But ice dancing (and figure skating as a whole) doesn't exactly have the most sparkling history when it comes to integrity so i'm just pointing out things that make this whole situation a little strange
 
Last edited:

A.H.Black

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Looking at 3rd - 5th. Both Gilles / Pourier and the Shibutani's were ahead of Chock / Bates in the free program. The Shibutani's were less than 1/2 point behind Chock/Bates overall.

I enjoy the Shibutani's skating so I watched them a lot at Nationals. I noticed that Maia has indeed grown. I remember a time when we worried she might not grow enough (weird as usually we worry that someone will grow too much). I also noticed they don't seem as fast as they used to. Their twizzles were always the fastest in the business and I always marveled. I'm assuming that her growth has been the biggest factor in this lack of speed. I hope they are able to adjust and gain that speed back again.

Concerning Gilles/Pourier; they have certainly improved since I saw them at the International B in Salt Lake in September.

A bit off topic - the international B in Salt Lake certainly turned out to be good luck for many of the skaters there (including Chock/Bates). Many of the programs that looked so ragged there have turned out great now that they are more developed.
 
Last edited:

icebeauty

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
also, I'm really missing Kaitlyn and Andrew this season...i saw someone say that they're back on the ice...but does anyone have any news/facts about how long they've been back and how trainings going? has anyone seen them skate?
 

Eislauf

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
Where the lift was to have come, they got into position, then Scott was gesturing with his left hand, as if he had a cramp and wasn't able to have enough power in that hand to do the lift. He was also flexing that left hand over and over on the podium.

I don't think Tessa was having trouble breathing, I think it was Scott's hand that was the problem.

Agree with both of you. Scott put his left hand on her leg for the lift and then pulled it away. Before the stop Tessa didn't look like she was skating gingerly on that leg or bravely fighting through a sudden painful leg cramp. Plus wouldn't she have instinctively tried to massage/rub her leg muscles during their break to help herself skate? It's all very mysterious.
 
Last edited:

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
After watching the vid I think the problem was either Tessa (or maybe Scott) got spooked going into that very dangerous lift...timing was off, his hand placement etc and he/she just didnt feel comfortable doing it. If he had a cramp in his hand that seems like a likely solution...in any event he seemed to be doing a lot of talking where she was mostly listening.
 

dcnative

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 20, 2011
Them being able to repeat the lift is at issue for me because they do not just get judged on the lift but also on the run out and how smoothly the lift was executed. In order for them to execute that particular lift smoothly (maybe at all) and have good runout they had to be able to perform the skating that led up to the lift to build up speed and momentum.
 

aims

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Yeah, the mystery is over! :pTessa had cramps in her leg. She said so herself as per the article on Icenetwork.
"I just had some cramp in my legs to deal with," Virtue said. "I'm glad we collected ourselves and kept pushing through the program."
Make what you will of it.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Yeah, the mystery is over! :pTessa had cramps in her leg. She said so herself as per the article on Icenetwork.
"I just had some cramp in my legs to deal with," Virtue said. "I'm glad we collected ourselves and kept pushing through the program."
Make what you will of it.

I still don't understand why it seemed like Scott was the one who initiated the stop, but Mathman is right, they wouldn't have a good reason to lie.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
After watching the vid I think the problem was either Tessa (or maybe Scott) got spooked going into that very dangerous lift...timing was off, his hand placement etc and he/she just didnt feel comfortable doing it. If he had a cramp in his hand that seems like a likely solution...in any event he seemed to be doing a lot of talking where she was mostly listening.

It looked very much like a timing thing to me.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Them being able to repeat the lift is at issue for me because they do not just get judged on the lift but also on the run out and how smoothly the lift was executed. In order for them to execute that particular lift smoothly (maybe at all) and have good runout they had to be able to perform the skating that led up to the lift to build up speed and momentum.

Very true.
 
Top