Counter Clockwise rotation vs. Clockwise rotation | Golden Skate

Counter Clockwise rotation vs. Clockwise rotation

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I've always been wondering about this ever since I watched figure skating.
I know majority of skaters rotate counter clockwise when they are executing their jumps, and there are few who executes clockwise.

What's the reason for them to turn clockwise?
Are certain jumps easier/harder when doing clockwise (compared to counter clockwise)?
I know there are skaters like Caro, Wagner, and Weir who turns clockwise. Which skaters in the past, (before CoP era) turned clockwise?
 

willdu

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
I've always been wondering about this ever since I watched figure skating.
I know majority of skaters rotate counter clockwise when they are executing their jumps, and there are few who executes clockwise.

What's the reason for them to turn clockwise?
Are certain jumps easier/harder when doing clockwise (compared to counter clockwise)?
I know there are skaters like Caro, Wagner, and Weir who turns clockwise. Which skaters in the past, (before CoP era) turned clockwise?

I believe it's a right hand left hand thing. It's what is natural to them.
 

rvi5

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
That is also what I had heard. People who are right handed, typically wink with their right eye, kick with their right foot, etc. The right side of your body is controlled by the left side of your brain (and vice-versa). If your right foot/leg is dominant, it would be logical to spin counter-clockwise when you kick up to perform an Axel jump etc.

However, there could be exceptions. During the commentary for the "Ice Princess" movie, Hayden Panettiere mentioned she learned to perform a basic Axel jump spinning counter-clockwise. However the double they eventually hired spun clockwise. Hayden complained she had to re-learn the jump spinning clock-wise, because the double was too good of a body-type match to pass-up as her double.
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I know there are skaters like Caro, Wagner, and Weir who turns clockwise. Which skaters in the past, (before CoP era) turned clockwise?
Others have explained why some skaters are clockwise jumpers - it's just what comes naturally. Note that both Kostner and Weir are originally 6.0 skaters and competed under the old system at the senior level ;)

Rudy Galindo, Todd Eldredge and Sarah Hughes are all clockwise jumpers. I got that from this old thread.
 

Brenda

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
It's like right-/left-handedness, but there's little correlation between being left-handed and rotating clockwise (the two rarer types). Most skaters seem to think it has to do with either leg, foot, or eye dominance, but there hasn't been a large-enough study done to determine what exactly determines rotation direction.

Just as some people can be more ambidexterous than others, some skaters can be pretty successful practicing jumps and spins in their non-dominant direction. Here's Rohene Ward doing a clockwise double axel followed by a counter-clockwise double axel. http://youtu.be/sAdIn-NFKhc?t=2m1s

Skate America 2011 had a rare all-clockwise podium in Ladies (Alissa Czisny, Carolina Kostner, Viktoria Helgesson). I can't remember any other competition where this has happened.


Have there been any top Russian skaters who rotate clockwise? I can't really think of any and always imagined that the federation/top coaches had little interest in developing clockwise skaters and simply left them to drop out of the system. In countries like the USA where private $$$ drives skating, coaches have a lot more incentive to encourage all skaters to figure out their dominant direction and continue.
 

Josie

Rinkside
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
In 1996, Rudi Galindo was US champion with Todd Eldredge coming second - also two clockwise skaters on the Podium.
I, too, turn clockwise (and I'm right-handed) and have been interested in scientificly exploring that phenomenon. I'd like to see some reliable studies on the propotion of clockwise skaters (and not just skaters, but people in general who prefer the clockwise direction), and how this coincides with other issues like chirality or mathematical skills, artistic ambitions...
 

figuristka

Medalist
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Seems to be more skaters from North America or European non Russian who are clockwise jumpers such as Wagner, Osmond, Kostner etc. Iam left handed but jumped the most common way counter clockwise so its not just to do with your dominate hand. It must have to do with leg,or foot dominace too or just what comes more natural. I don't believe a jump would be easier either way its rotated as would take off the same way. When we do compulsory dances they are always performed counter clockwise in the pattern.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
AFAIR, weren't Orscher & Lucash clockwise jumpers (former US pair champs?). And Tiffany Vise is clockwise, which is why she has been twice in a mirror pair.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
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Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
There was a Soviet/Russian pair in the early-mid 90's (my memory these days... sigh) who did back to back SBS single axels in the FP. Not impressive, unless you consider that the first set spun one way, and the second spun the other.

I always thought that was a nifty move, but it never got much mention from commentators...
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I can't see how it would matter to a singles skater, but in pairs I can see that it makes a pair less harmonious to watch. I can think of two pairs who were opposites: Kristi and Rudy (he's already been mentioned) and I think Jill Watson/Peter Oppegard. Watson/Oppegard paired up later, so their early training wasn't together. But didn't Kristi and Rudy start together as a pair? Both of these pairs did well internationally for an American pair, but I can't recall any clock/counter international gold medalists. Can anyone else?

I don't skate, but I'm definitely more comfortable pivoting on my right leg, which means I'm clockwise. Man, do I have to do everything the contrary way round. I'm left-handed, but I see that this isn't a necessary corollary of being clockwise. (Hi! How do you do? I'm Olympia, and I'm clockwise.)

Are we saying that a clock/counter pair can't win in CoP?
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
What's the reason for them to turn clockwise?

Because when they were learning the basics for 2 foot spins in learn to skate, the instructor probably said close your eyes and try and "spin" (ie rotate around in a full circle that eventually becomes a two foot spin) and they rotated clockwise. The instructor usually has them close their eyes when they do that little exercise to allow the kids to automatically determine "comfort direction" instead of peer pressure of everyone going to same way.

There are some people who originally learn to jump/spin one way and have an injury and relearn the other.
 

rvi5

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Sometimes while out skiing, I will fool around while gliding forward on flat ground by spinning on my skiis. Although I am right handed, I will spin clockwise. I rotate my upper body/shoulders, and the lower body with the skiis follow.

I am not a skater, but if I were, I suspect I would prefer to kick up with my right leg (Axel), jump up off my dominant right leg (Toe jumps etc.) and spin counter-clockwise. This would likely give me more power, and feel more comfortable. I think I would also prefer to land on my dominant right leg for better control.

It appears my spinning would likely be unrelated to my jump spin direction.

ETA: However, spinning on skates may be completely different than on skiis. On skates, I may want to kick around into the spin with my dominant right leg for spin power, thus rotating counter-clockwise. On skiis, you can't kick, and must use upper body rotation to achieve the spin.
 
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TontoK

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My personal preference is for pairs that jump/spin the same direction, although I thought Kristie/Rudy had some innovative moves. On another thread I mentioned that their pair spiral into mirror 2Axels may be my favorite pairs move ever.

I would think that these couples would be at a disadvantage on skills like pairs spins or death spirals because one of the partners is rotating in an "against the grain" direction. I suppose the man's natural spin direction would carry the day on most lifts, wouldn't it take some getting used to on the part of the lady?

I wonder if any ice dance teams are composed of opposite skaters...
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
There was a Soviet/Russian pair in the early-mid 90's (my memory these days... sigh) who did back to back SBS single axels in the FP. Not impressive, unless you consider that the first set spun one way, and the second spun the other.

I always thought that was a nifty move, but it never got much mention from commentators...

Oh, that sounds wonderful! I hope you think of who it was, so we can hunt them up on YouTube. I always loved that John Curry did some pretty substantial spins in both directions, and Michelle Kwan used to spin in both directions as well.

As for Rohene Ward, I was always so distressed that (a) he never made it very far in eligible competition and (b) he missed the great years of pro skating. Some of his abilities are mindboggling. He could do a double axel in both directions? Wow. That is truly wizardly.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Rohene could also do 3S in both directions. I wish he had had more of a head for competition. However, he is doing the European tours of Holiday on Ice, and choreographing for Jason Brown and a couple of other skaters. He is not lost to skating, which is a good thing, IMO :love:

Another skater who left all too soon was Yebin Mok; she has also resurfaced as a pro skater.
http://iamkoream.com/august-issue-y...he-ice-after-struggling-with-eating-disorder/

I had not known she had an eating disorder, but her "Swan" SP was just lovely.


My personal preference is for pairs that jump/spin the same direction, although I thought Kristie/Rudy had some innovative moves. On another thread I mentioned that their pair spiral into mirror 2Axels may be my favorite pairs move ever.

I would think that these couples would be at a disadvantage on skills like pairs spins or death spirals because one of the partners is rotating in an "against the grain" direction. I suppose the man's natural spin direction would carry the day on most lifts, wouldn't it take some getting used to on the part of the lady?

I wonder if any ice dance teams are composed of opposite skaters...

It would be hard to find out, since dancers are required to step, twizzle and spin in both directions.

You can get the man's preferred direction from their rotational lifts. Getting to know the lady's preferred direction is tricky.

Your best bet to guess is whether the lady has trouble with the first set of twizzles routinely, while if the man routinely has trouble with the second set (or the reverse), but really, they are supposed to be equally good in both directions.

Or you could pull up their singles career vids (if they exist) and see which way they jump.
 

cheerio2

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Really interesting discussion, I had not realized some skaters were capable of rotating in both directions. I always thought it'd be epic if a skater could pull off a 3Lutz-3Lutz combo. Meaning they do the second 3Lutz off the outside landing edge of the first jump rotating in the opposite direction. Lol, I won't be holding my breath for that.
 

cheerio2

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Oh, thanks for the info. I hadn't realized there was an ISI system that actually requires that. Double axels both ways is still pretty sweet.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Oh, thanks for the info. I hadn't realized there was an ISI system that actually requires that. Double axels both ways is still pretty sweet.

I have seen a video of Rohene doing a 2Z in the opposite direction but can't seem to find it. Doing a double axel in both directions is crazy impressive though... I wonder if the computer would have to count that as a 2A+2A+C combination instead of a 2A+2A+S sequence? :biggrin:

It's pretty easy to do single jumps in the opposite direction since a lot of them are like doing rockers or three turns or loops in the non-dominant direction. A fun game we'd play as younger skaters was a game of S.K.A.T.E. (like H.O.R.S.E.) with turns and jumps. E.g. LBO pivot, push off your right pick into an axel... a forward spin exiting into a 2S... or a back spin that exits into a reverse-single lutz... it's fun, and actually makes for unique choreography if it can be executed seamlessly! :)
 
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