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Thread: Kirk & Lease Discuss the Men with PJ Kwong

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    Kirk & Lease Discuss the Men with PJ Kwong

    Meanwhile Canadian media goes for Worlds with next dirty PR work. Pretty much the same like in anti-Plu saga. This time Pj Kwong slandered Takahashi fans with shameless lie in front of the camera. She said it was Dai fans who booed Chan in Nice (what a coincidence that she is talking about it now, a year after the event, but right before the coming Worlds ). She also said that Hanyu fans told her that Dai fans booed Yuzu in JN, which is beyond bothering to comment. There was no booing in Sapporo, it was some silence due to disappointment of the results and that is all. But why this Zhurankov's bride should bother to speak the truth. She also went with blunt name calling like "rascals" about Dai fans. Nothing new here. As I said- deja vu of what we have seen already before Vancouver, just towards another skater and his fans. Shame on Canadian media and its staffer Pj Kwong .
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS3AtF8F8X0

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    Unfortunately, PJ was right on ...except the JPN booing thing.

    ...Besides, I'm not a PJ fan but the "dirty PR work" is not a new product which has been invented by Canadians. When did we see less "dirty PR work" before and after 2010 Olympics from Americans? Wait till 2014 to see the same "dirty PR work" from the host country as well.

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    In fact Canadian Media PR is too soft unlike some other countries.... I think its time they were down and dirty!!

    This is why we have a rep of being nice people.

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    On the Ice Mathman's Avatar
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    Well, I just listened to the podcast and I didn't get any kind of dirty tricks vibe at all. PJ didn't mention Takahashi fans specifically, she just criticized "those rascals" who boo'd young figure skaters at worlds and Japanese nationals and hurt their feelings.

    As for being a Canadian uber -- hardly, in this interview. She says Chan has an uphill climb ahead of him. She (along with Jennifer and Dave) pick Fernandez to win, with Chan and Hanyu also on the podium. Reynolds she pegs as a top ten, but final six is a stretch. She sees Takahashi as being in a league of his own as an artist, but feels that his body can't keep going forever. Quite a fair assessment, IMHO.

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    Dave looks like he is hypnotized or something. lol

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    PJ didn't not say that Dai fans were rascals. She said whoever did the booing were. Those are two different things. They could have been anyone's uber, not just Dai's. She also didn't say which skater's fan told her about the "booing" at Japanese nationals either. I will agree that it was silence and not booing at Japanese nationals which imo was the more appropriate way to go about things. Protest through silence I think it would be somewhat effective b/c skating is a sport known for its' loud supportive cheers. Heck if the audience really wants the judges to know how they feel boo the judges and refs when they are introduced at other events. It's just easier to target the skater in these types of situations and it's unfortunate that the skater gets the brunt of the dissatisfaction by the audience b/c I doubt the judges are going to judge any differently if the audience makes the skaters feel like a bag of poo

    It seems that she is kinda torn about that "clean" program question. She wants to say yes but then for me she provides reasons for why unclean programs win in the new system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    she just criticized "those rascals" who boo'd young figure skaters at worlds and Japanese nationals and hurt their feelings.
    What does she expect too see or hear when most of the spectators in the arena saw a tremendous injustice going on (Chan winning the LP)? In life, sports or politics people try to find a way to show that they do not agree with injustice, they protest, they boo, they feel insulted by the pathetic judging. Crowd was not wrong in doing so, they were more than right. They shouldn't remain silent, otherwise, nobody would ever know their feelings and opinions by that time, everyone would think Patrick's victory (except fans in message boards) was perfectly fine. Sports events are not dictatorships where you can't express your opinion loud and clear after a performance.

    I'm so sorry if poor little Patrick got his feelings hurt by the boos, but that's the only way crowd could express their dissatisfaction with those pathetic results. Anyway, in many interviews, PChiddy never cared about winning with all those falls and errors over better skates, never looked ashamed or embarrassed (like Asada in 2012 NHK), on the contrary, he felt confortable knowing that he could always win with many mistakes until this season.

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    I know it when I see it. This ain't it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Well, I just listened to the podcast and I didn't get any kind of dirty tricks vibe at all. PJ didn't mention Takahashi fans specifically, she just criticized "those rascals" who boo'd young figure skaters at worlds and Japanese nationals and hurt their feelings.
    She didn't say it was Takahashi fans, but said that the same "rascals" booed at Worlds in Nice and at Japan Nationals in Supporo. She accused Japanese fans based on what she's heard from someone, whoever he or she might be, but not based on what she saw in person. And she calls herself a journalist.

    Now, she has closed the subject herself.

    Pj Kwong ‏@skatingpj
    1. I don't lie 2.Booing is an English word to convey an idea 3.Subject is now closed for discussion. Tks for being in touch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    What does she expect too see or hear when most of the spectators in the arena saw a tremendous injustice going on (Chan winning the LP)? In life, sports or politics people try to find a way to show that they do not agree with injustice, they protest, they boo, they feel insulted by the pathetic judging. Crowd was not wrong in doing so, they were more than right. They shouldn't remain silent, otherwise, nobody would ever know their feelings and opinions by that time, everyone would think Patrick's victory (except fans in message boards) was perfectly fine. Sports events are not dictatorships where you can't express your opinion loud and clear after a performance.

    I'm so sorry if poor little Patrick got his feelings hurt by the boos, but that's the only way crowd could express their dissatisfaction with those pathetic results. Anyway, in many interviews, PChiddy never cared about winning with all those falls and errors over better skates, never looked ashamed or embarrassed (like Asada in 2012 NHK), on the contrary, he felt confortable knowing that he could always win with many mistakes until this season.
    The booing seems to have done some good though. Chan can't get away with falling 3 times and expect to win now. It was because of booing at the 1971 Worlds that made the ISU come up with the SP and devalue compulsory figures even more after Janet Lynn didn't even make it on the podium despite being the dominate free skater of her time. So raising hell does do some good at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    She didn't say it was Takahashi fans, but said that the same "rascals" booed at Worlds in Nice and at Japan Nationals in Supporo. She accused Japanese fans based on what she's heard from someone, whoever he or she might be, but not based on what she saw in person. And she calls herself a journalist.

    Now, she has closed the subject herself.

    Pj Kwong ‏@skatingpj
    1. I don't lie 2.Booing is an English word to convey an idea 3.Subject is now closed for discussion. Tks for being in touch!
    I do find it amusing that she writes "convey an idea" and "subject is now closed for discussion" back to back. If you're not willing to discuss the idea you convey (and this goes for everybody), don't bring it up.

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    Well people sometimes the booing may appear just and other times it may be more of a lack of comprehension of the scoring and judging system. It MAY not be corrupt judign. If the emphasis is in artistry ie freeskate in 6.0 system then what happened in pairs in SLC is totally possible and not necessarily so scandalous as suggested. Likewise a fall or two could beat a fall free performance there are other technical elements and the pcs hav emore room I am confused who is Kirk and Lease????? I missed something for sure right? ON this board and any board we will never agree who should have won; we are all unique individuals (so true) with independent, original and unique opinions and the way of seeing things.

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    I thought that "booing" actually entailed the sound "boo" being vocally expressed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    The booing seems to have done some good though. Chan can't get away with falling 3 times and expect to win now.
    You wish! If you compared the BV and TES of his program in relation to the top skaters' programs this year and the last year, you'd know that your wishful thinking is just a wishful thinking.

    Patrick took himself down by having only a dance instructor and listened to her to take it easy. That was what truly put him into the current underdog position. He is an "underdog" at this Worlds.

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Kirk
    Jenny Kirk was the 2000 World Jr. Champion and was once a US Sr bronze medalist behind Kwan & Cohen.

    Dave Lease is the blogger who did the off ice desk with Jenny at US Nationals, and has the blog Aunt Joyce's Ice Cream Stand.

    The two have started a podcast together on youtube.

    Yes, I would agree that "booing" needs some kind of vocalization or at least rude gesturing to be "booing" - I would accept whistles, catcalls, Bronx cheers, and rude comments as booing as well as the actual word "boo". Perhaps even rude comments in ASL (which would not be vocalized) or a crowd rising and executing a double replica of the NYC bird (one with each hand). Polite silence is not booing.

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    I thought this was a good podcast and quite fair. Interesting, I have read many reports about the booing incident last year and there are so many different versions about what happened and why that I feel it's no longer possible to tell. Quite a few people who were there had totally different versions!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Well, I just listened to the podcast and I didn't get any kind of dirty tricks vibe at all. PJ didn't mention Takahashi fans specifically, she just criticized "those rascals" who boo'd young figure skaters at worlds and Japanese nationals and hurt their feelings.
    Oh yeah. Surely she meant Mura's fans in that context, or maybe Oda's fans, or just passers-by who booed Hanyu at JN and created some incidents as she claimed they did. There was no booing and no incidents at JN. She is a liar and telling a lie is always a dirty PR work.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    Pj Kwong ‏@skatingpj
    1. I don't lie 2.Booing is an English word to convey an idea 3.Subject is now closed for discussion. Tks for being in touch!
    Haha. That was entertaining. I wrote to her the first time ever and she failed to survive it- crawled in her lair with "closing discussion". People on boards must be really tougher than her!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Wait till 2014 to see the same "dirty PR work" from the host country as well.
    What ground this claim is based on? Any links? Russia has been hosting GP CoR yearly, including with your PChan. They hold the notorious Worlds-2011 where your guy actually won. What dirty PR work of the host country exactly was done to him or any other WC participant?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    You wish! If you compared the BV and TES of his program in relation to the top skaters' programs this year and the last year, you'd know that your wishful thinking is just a wishful thinking.

    Patrick took himself down by having only a dance instructor and listened to her to take it easy. That was what truly put him into the current underdog position. He is an "underdog" at this Worlds.
    Okay, let's compare. PChan didn't have top BV and TES in both SP and FS in Nice in the first place. In SP his BV/TES of 41/46 was beaten by Brezina: 42/48. In LP he lost BV/TES of 74/88.56 to Hanyu (79/91) and BV to Takahashi (79/88.16). In both segments he was pulled on top by PCS losing TES to his rivals. His scores in Nice of SP 89.41 and LP 176.70 were beaten this year more than once: in SP by Dai and Hanyu, in LP- by Dai, Hanyu and Javi. So, it's not like PChan took himself down this year. It's his rivals who are skating better than he did it both this year and last year as well.

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    I was at Nice. A lot of audience booed after Chan LP, not only Takahashi fans booing. Most people who booed were the local French audience. Then I talked to some people including French, Germans, Italians after the competition, and almost everyone I talked to hated Chan and thought Takahashi should have won.

    I was not at the Japanese Nationals, but I’ve heard different people told me that Takahashi fans made strange noise during the victory ceremony. There was no “protest through silence” at the men’s competition because the general audience all clapped and cheered after Hanyu’s victory. Only a part of Takahashi fans made strange booing noise during the victory ceremony when they were awarding to Hanyu. I heard this from Kozuka fan, Kanako fan, and Takahashi fan who were there. The Takahashi fan said she was booing with her other Takahashi fan friends and they were proud of themselves.

    I was at NHK Sendai and 4CC Osaka. I saw a few Takahashi fans making strange noise when Hanyu was about to jump, trying to affect him. I also saw Takahashi fans playing with their cell phone and laughing when Hanyu was going to perform his gala program. Then other general audience found these Takahashi fans very annoying and asked them to stop.

    Usually Japanese fans are very polite and nice, but a part of Takahashi fans are different from other Japanese fans. Sometimes they are very rude at competitions in Japan. They have done similar thing to Kozuka in the past also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Oh yeah. Surely she meant Mura's fans in that context, or maybe Oda's fans, or just passers-by who booed Hanyu at JN and created some incidents as she claimed they did. There was no booing and no incidents at JN. She is a liar and telling a lie is always a dirty PR work.
    Well...I think you are making something out of nothing.

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    Iam sure iam not the only fan who adores Chan, Takahashi, and Hanyu. Each has qualities i love. Should be a privilege for us to get to see them skate. They are great talents. If audience members no matter who makes noise on purpose to distract a skater its really disrespectful. I never saw this even when watching Yagudin and Plushenko in the same competiton. I don't have a problem with booing after marks before another skater skates their program. The audience has a right to express their feelings. Cannot say i like booing at a medal ceremony as it should be directed towards judges and the system, not a skater.

    I quite like pj but don't always agree with her comments.I still hope for Chan, Takahashi and Hanyu on the podium and would take it in any order as i still see them as the best if they skate fairly well and hope the judging system agrees. If a fan of a certain skater were to boo or do something not really appropriate it shouldn't be reflected on the skater or their fans. Could be two people out of thousands.

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