What's gone wrong for Russian & Japan at 2013 Worlds? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

What's gone wrong for Russian & Japan at 2013 Worlds?

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
I'd say this, if they continue treat their athletes the way they treated BOTH Kovtun and Menchov, they will continue to be psychologically weak. You don't treat your people like that and then expect them to perform, not with COP, things are a bit more objective than with the 6.0 system. They need to do something to boost the morale of their athletes and fast. They need to lead the way with exemplary character, just starting for example with how coaches talk about their athletes in the press and the way some like to vilify the charges of other coaches in the press, and yes I am referring to Stavisky, just in case I wasn't clear enough. Leadership needs to show some class, and yes I'm referring to the TAT here. Character begets character.

ITA! My thoughts exactly.

Menshov deserved to be at Worlds, and he may have placed higher than Kovtun, while Kovtun might have possibly become a World Junior champion or World Junior medalist this year. I get the feeling though that perhaps TAT and some in Russian fed may have thought that sending Kovtun to this Worlds would give him experience and set him up for Sochi with perhaps the added bonus of regaining two mens spots for Russia (and even if one spot remained, they may have felt Kovtun would be better prepared for Olympics and Worlds stage next year should Plush be too crippled to attend). Obviously, EPIC FAIL on all counts.

Kinda funny that if Soviet Union hadn't broken up, Denis Ten would be representing that entity.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Not sure there's anything wrong with Russia. They have their top pair team and that's pretty much what was expected. I'm a Adelina fan but I didn't expect a podium finish although it would be nice Other than that what was expected of the women and the men.

Now Japan is another story. They are expected to be on or near the podium with their great talent but it's not over.

Lots is wrong with Russian skaters. Liza had two elements not count. Sotnikova is barely in the top 10. Bad showing from kovtun with 3t-1t. Leonova was poor most of the season. I/k plummeted from last year in the s/d. Their skating isn't anywhere near clean. If you come at from a view "well they weren't going to win medals anyway so who cares?" that's wrong. They could skate respectably and not medal rather than horrendously and not medal.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Japan: Takahashi had an injury five years ago. His jumps haven't been as strong so he's prone to calls. Hanyu has been unwell as well, has asthma which means a program can go to pieces quite easily. Mura was undermarked. Asada has spent so much time thinking and overthinking her jump technique that it doesn't come naturally. Murakami and Suzuki did well, despite the error(s).

Russia: I/K were always gonna get hurt by level calling. Ditto R/T. Bazarova/Larionov have missed two competitions because of injury and are weak jumpers. Kavaguti/Smirnov and Volosozhar/Trankov skated quite well. Kovtun was undertested, his selection controversial, his skills junior. Sotnikova and Tuktamisheva are at the biggest competition of their careers and have nerve issues. Leonova isn't very good. And I suspect Sochi is weighing heavily on all their minds. The desire to enter it as the top skater etc.

Mura was generously marked -- he popped a jump and he's no Patrick Chan either, btw.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
ITA! My thoughts exactly.

Kinda funny that if Soviet Union hadn't broken up, Denis Ten would be representing that entity.

Not necessarily - we will never know for sure but the fact is there is an incredible amount of racism in Russia despite it being a fairly diverse country. Denis Ten's ancestry would not sit well with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian. This means he may have been selected out in their process much earlier before being able to shine and prove his worth. It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian. Even then, during the 2010 Olympics, some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian as their #1 Pair and were lamenting about this "sad fact". Why they feel the need to call it sad is pure racism. That said, not everyone thinks like that. Tamara Moksvina and Alexander Smirnov certainly supported her, as did many others who were convinced by her resolve which led her to being granted Russian citizenship.
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
Not necessarily - we will never know for sure but the fact is there is an incredible amount of racism in Russia despite it being a fairly diverse country. Denis Ten's ancestry would not sit well with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian. This means he may have been selected out in their process much earlier before being able to shine and prove his worth. It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian. Even then, during the 2010 Olympics, some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian as their #1 Pair and were lamenting about this "sad fact". Why they feel the need to call it sad is pure racism. That said, not everyone thinks like that. Tamara Moksvina and Alexander Smirnov certainly supported her, as did many others who were convinced by her resolve which led her to being granted Russian citizenship.
interesting view in so many ways you have:) first of all," with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian" what's that? caucasians are not the main here, not idael 100%.where did you get that from?
second, "It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian" -hmm?? she is not russkaya, as we can say, but if she has her Russian passport then she IS Russian. These things are different. Nobody bullies these sportsmen=/
"some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian"-I didn't hear anything like that:unsure: not on official forums or/ especially, in the news
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Mura was generously marked -- he popped a jump and he's no Patrick Chan either, btw.

He has great skating skills and he had a well put together choreographed program that he presented very decently. He keeps getting undermarked on the PCS just because he lacks projection and charisma (even though he has pretty much everything else).

It's Kozuka all over again.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Russian single skaters are in the middle of a big transition with the kids they sent to Worlds this year. It says a lot about Men's skating in Russia when they send a untested Junior skater to Senior Worlds obviously the more Senior men are not very good. As for the Ladies this it there first Worlds as 16 year old's. They are not going to become contenders until after Sochi when they are more experienced and the older skaters finally retire.
 

angelgem

Spectator
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Russian single skaters are in the middle of a big transition with the kids they sent to Worlds this year. It says a lot about Men's skating in Russia when they send a untested Junior skater to Senior Worlds obviously the more Senior men are not very good. As for the Ladies this it there first Worlds as 16 year old's. They are not going to become contenders until after Sochi when they are more experienced and the older skaters finally retire.

Agreed.Ifeel a little sorry for the russian girls so much hype around them and in there first senior worlds they are responsable for the amount of oly spots for next year.Am sure Liza will pull up some spots she seems a tough little kid but you have to worry about Adelinas nerves holding up when she is the highest placed.Leanova doest seem to be in the right frame of mind to do much just hope she doesnt drop any further.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Japan is not out of it at all. The ladies have a shot at a medal and in men there is still two shots at a medal one more likely. Not the greatest skates from Tak or Hanyu or Mao or Suzuki but they can move up. The Russian ladies are a disaster. Tuk can move up but Sotnikova would have to skate also the skate of her life or Leonova to earn three spots and most likely it would be liek 5th and 8th or 6th and 7th which would mean Gold, Osmond, Wagner and Murakami would hav eto make huge mistakes too. I and K have always had problem with their levels; such a talented team too. Is it bad conditioning and work ethics? Is it I dating Morosov that is the problem. Dating coaches or people in the skating world when you are competing seems to causde a lot of problems other than G and G and maybe Klimova and Pomanenko who have had their probelms too.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Japan is not out of it at all. The ladies have a shot at a medal and in men there is still two shots at a medal one more likely. Not the greatest skates from Tak or Hanyu or Mao or Suzuki but they can move up. The Russian ladies are a disaster. Tuk can move up but Sotnikova would have to skate also the skate of her life or Leonova to earn three spots and most likely it would be liek 5th and 8th or 6th and 7th which would mean Gold, Osmond, Wagner and Murakami would hav eto make huge mistakes too. I and K have always had problem with their levels; such a talented team too. Is it bad conditioning and work ethics? Is it I dating Morosov that is the problem. Dating coaches or people in the skating world when you are competing seems to causde a lot of problems other than G and G and maybe Klimova and Pomanenko who have had their probelms too.

Its not work ethic I/K are atm just inconsistent actually both I/K and B/S
2 ladies more like for the Olympics your right, Leonova can say godobye, she did not help her placement at all so goodbye career

Hope Julia gets one of those spots
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
I just don't think the girls can do it. There was so much pressure on them to deliver 3 spots, what with the Olympics being held in Russia next year, and I think we sometimes forget that they're only sixteen.

But to put it in perspective, Tukt is in 14th and Sotnikova in 8th. For Tukt to move up, she'll need a clean skate AND big mistakes from Li, Gold, Leonova, Meite, and/or Helgesson. For Sotnikova to move up, she'll need a FS even better than Euros and major mistakes from Asada, Suzuki, Wagner, Osmond, Murakami, Kostner, and/or Kim ( :laugh: ). Of those, Osmond, Murakami, Meite, and Helgesson are the only ones with good chances of moving down after the FS, especially if Asada, Suzuki, and Wagner deliver the goods. And Sotnikova is less than a point ahead of Gracie Gold, who for all we know (and hope) will give us a US Nats-esque jumping clinic.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I just don't think the girls can do it. There was so much pressure on them to deliver 3 spots, what with the Olympics being held in Russia next year, and I think we sometimes forget that they're only sixteen.

But to put it in perspective, Tukt is in 14th and Sotnikova in 8th. For Tukt to move up, she'll need a clean skate AND big mistakes from Li, Gold, Leonova, Meite, and/or Helgesson. For Sotnikova to move up, she'll need a FS even better than Euros and major mistakes from Asada, Suzuki, Wagner, Osmond, Murakami, Kostner, and/or Kim ( :laugh: ). Of those, Osmond, Murakami, Meite, and Helgesson are the only ones with good chances of moving down after the FS, especially if Asada, Suzuki, and Wagner deliver the goods. And Sotnikova is less than a point ahead of Gracie Gold, who for all we know (and hope) will give us a US Nats-esque jumping clinic.

Mao is not a podium lock though if she tries the 3A she might get dinged a couple of UR's
Tuk, Gracie are good freeskaters, Sotnikova though is a plain headcase
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
interesting view in so many ways you have:) first of all," with their ideals, which is a true caucasian, pure blood Russian" what's that? caucasians are not the main here, not idael 100%.where did you get that from?
second, "It took someone with an extreme amount of resolve like Yuko Kawaguchi (now Kavaguti) to convince them that she can be a Russian" -hmm?? she is not russkaya, as we can say, but if she has her Russian passport then she IS Russian. These things are different. Nobody bullies these sportsmen=/
"some Russians were fuming publicly about having a non-pure blood Russian"-I didn't hear anything like that:unsure: not on official forums or/ especially, in the news

DeNial (The Nile) is not just the name of a river in Egypt.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Mao is not a podium lock though if she tries the 3A she might get dinged a couple of UR's
Tuk, Gracie are good freeskaters, Sotnikova though is a plain headcase

I don't believe I said she was...? But I don't think Mao will finish out of the top 5. She was sixth last year, and with much poorer programs (she couldn't even land her triple axels, for goodness sake).

Tukt has been remarkably consistent in her FS, I agree. And Gold has shown that she can be, although given her recent performance at 4CC, I can't help but worry just a little bit. Sotnikova did fine at Euros, but as I said, she'll have to do better tomorrow to move up--the Russian ladies are nowhere close to a combined placement of thirteenth or less.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
this a case of misterminology, in Russia " Caucasian" does not mean white people it means people from the Caucasus Regions
dont get how it will be racist never heard news about Kavaguti getting citizenship was protested, also Russia is more ethnically diverse than US and Canada combined
 
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