2013 Worlds Men LP | Page 51 | Golden Skate

2013 Worlds Men LP

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
It wasn't only a Canadian curse before Vancouver. People simply called it the World Champion's curse since it also happened to Plushenko in 2002 and Lambiel in 2006. I remember many people, who believed in the curse (either sincerely or jokingly), thought Evan would succumb to it as well. Once Scott Hamilton pointed out that the curse didn't affect an American World Champion coming into the Olympics and Evan won Vancouver, then people started to either talk about the American exception or calling it a Canadian Curse.

Actually ´till 2002 it was mentioned as the Canadian curse. Stojko competed as the reigning World champion at the 1998 Olympics. Anyway, it definetely seems to me that the problem has been mainly the Canadian one, LOL, and now it could be described as a global one concerning the World champions (with the exception of Lysacek of course). So, Chan is affected for both the Canadian curse and the general WC one...

I have not watched the competition yet, but about Joubert: Apparently he had downgrades in his jumps and generally his programmes are not on the same difficulty level as those of many other skaters, but he always is overscored in some PCS.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Actually ´till 2002 it was mentioned as the Canadian curse. Stojko competed as the reigning World champion at the 1998 Olympics. Anyway, it definetely seems to me that the problem has been mainly the Canadian one, LOL, and now it could be described as a global one concerning the World champions (with the exception of Lysacek of course). So, Chan is affected for both the Canadian curse and the general WC one...

Oh yeah, that is true. I guess I only remember hearing about the curse in a general terms because SLC was the first Olympics I watched as a devoted skating fan and therefore wasn't around when it really was just an Orser, Browning, and Stojko streak.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
Well I honestly think Javier Fernandez should have won. He was the ONLY guy today who had a real program and his jumping was just fine. Yes, he popped a couple, but let's not forget he was attempting the hardest jump layout of the entire competition and 6 out of 8 of his jumping passes were gorgeous (including two Quads and a Triple Axel).

Denis Ten was indeed bland, with a typically empty Frank Carroll program, and he even totally broke the flow and interpretation of the performance by halting and doing those ridiculous fist pumps before going into the last spin. He doubled two jumps as well. It was a strong technical effort, enough that he deserved to also go ahead of Chan, but he wouldn't have been a good World Champion either.

Hanyu was technically the best of the night and I would have put him 2nd in the LP. 4th place overall was correct for him after that massively flawed SP, though. I hope he gets a more interesting LP again next year. Something that allows him to display his heart and passion.

I'm very glad Kevin Reynolds was only in 5th place. Those < calls were deserved. He probably should have placed one slot lower, even.

Joubert probably should have been in 5th place. I don't agree with the two < calls he received and his Zayak violation should have resulted in a 3S being called as a 2S, rather than what CoP voiding the entire last element out...I still can't believe they haven't fixed this yet. It's inexcusable. He was basically screwed out of at least 8 points here.

Max Aaron did a solid job at this competition, with two credible performances. His jumping is excellent and he has great confidence and energy. Needs to get better choreography now and work on improving the fluidity of his body. Consistently putting a 3Toe onto the end of a jump also seems to be the one flaw in his jumping right now, so he should work on getting that more consistent. Please don't be a Joubert and ignore it. His 7th place was deserved.

Takahito Mura skated so well in the LP, I was impressed! I would have put him 4th in that segment, actually. 8th place overall is correct since he had that huge mistake in the SP.

Takahashi...it's too bad his Quad jump left him after Japanese Nationals. I think undeservedly losing the National title to Hanyu this season, after skating PHENOMENALLY, really hurt his confidence. I hope next season he can keep his programs together better even if he messes up on the Quad(s). That mistake on the second Triple Axel in this performance was a disastrous one and the Loop was wobbly too. After all of those jump mistakes, not selling the program nearly as much as he's capable of, and the program not being great to begin with...there's not enough to score him on. I'd have him 10th in the LP and only 9th overall. :(
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I hate the IJS!!! Chan is a great skater, but isn't a great champion!!! It's not good for fiure skatnig..stupid scoring system...and the judges!!! 82.13 for TES???!!!!!!!!!!
 

figuristka

Medalist
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
The free skates were quite a let down in general. Alot of the men just seemed exhausted.

Yuzuru was actually pretty good in his free considering his knee program and the illness he had after 4cc. I felt so sorry for him after the short and i was almost shouting at the tv when he landed jumps as wanted him to do well. Yes he didn't have the energy he has when well but adore him and he still had something charismatic in his style. i think being able to land the quad and skate quite clean he did an amazing job. Too bad didn't quite reach the podium. He had been my pick to win. I think he will win next year's world barring any illness.

Javier i think came back quite strong and glad he made the podium. He has beautiful quads, and i like how he plays to the audience in this program. Still prefered Yuzuru but both were good. I think he seems such a nice character on and off ice.

Dai, my gosh the way he moves on the ice like a dancer he commands your attention. He will always be one of my favourite even when he doesn't medal. Its unfortunate he is tired and couldn't land a clean quad anymore as if he managed his quads i think he could have won. Now he is not on the podium which was a surprise to me. I hope he does not overdo it before Olympics.

Patrick, well i adore this program and his skating skills. Those soft edges and his transitions. I do think he is improving artistically but i did not expect him to be as bad after he landed 2 beautiful quads. When he fell on the 3 lz i thought he would still hold it together. Along with Dai and Yuzuru he is a favourite but i kind of wished he got second. I don't think he had a championship performance and i want him to address he needs to work harder next season. He was great on practice and gained back his modivation for skating prior to Worlds but seems performance wise when something went wrong he couldn't relay on past skates for this season to help him be confident.His coach didn't look upset and i wonder if this arrangement is to his benefit.

Brian Joubert, loved how he worked so hard and performs for the audience. He is so powerful and its a shame his marks were not rewarded more. Glad he is happy with himself though.

Denis Ten, well he stepped up again. Really good all around skater. I remember when he was with TT. Always considered having raw talented but he really went for it and had the best performance of the night. Even did the quad which he couldnt do all season. Even though i love Patrick i kind of wished Denis won overall. Looking forward to seeing his twitter on GS. He gets a gold medal for his free skate.Well done.

Kevin, his performances don't really excite or move me yet and i prefer more speed and power but its a shame about the under rotations. He has improved so much over this season and iam glad he at least got some rewards this season.

My podium picks were Yuzuru, Patrick then Dai. Hopefully i can still dream of them medaling at Olympics but wish they all skate at their best level. For Freeskating tonight i would have had it Denis Ten, Yuzuru, Patrick, Javier,Dai, Brian. I didn't see Rogozine and think cbc should have shown him. Russia could have done with having him this year.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Btw, after seeing the men tonight, I'm dubious about Plushenko's chances at another Olympic gold. :laugh:

This might sound a little funny, but I really think it , if Plushy will be healthy, he can skate in Sochi, then he has chance to stand on the pedestal .. I'm not saying that he will stand, but he has a chance ... in the past he could do two flawless programs under any pressure ..
 

ffionhanathomas

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
That was done in very poor taste. Plenty of people have got into trouble for their tweets on twitter. Ms. Gao seems to lack tact and sportsmanship. Wanna bet how fast this one gets deleted or taken down? I'll give until tomorrow morning + an apology.

What does she even mean by BS Worlds? All or am I just being a bit dim..

I love Patrick Chan, and I think its awful how people are blaming his for the whole thing, as really its the judges people should be blaming!
 

daphna

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Patrick Chan keeps getting more and more annoying, on and off the ice. After being awarded 2 world titles he didn't deserve, I hope he finishes 4th next year in Sochi.
 

figuristka

Medalist
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
I really want Patrick to medal at Olympics but with a really good skate. Patrick is one of my favourite's along with Dai and Yuzuru but i was really applauding Denis for stepping up and having a great performance. I somehow felt let down when Denis didn't win as it was the best on the night. He does get a small gold medal for his Fs and his county must be so proud. I thought if Patrick was second perhaps he will work harder next season in training and make changes needed to have a better skate, but now i don't know if he realizes he needs more help. Maybe he wanted to win for Canada but maybe it would have been better for him to be second. One thing is its a shame we didn't see his FS clean as its wonderful choreography. Have to catch it on the practice video for that.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I don't blame Patrick, but this is such an awkward situation for him. I was thinking what I'd show friends to demonstrate what a great skater Patrick is. Well, nothing from this Worlds. They'd ask me what kind of sport this skating is, anyway. If I show someone a video of Janet Lynn skating "Afternoon of a Faun" all the way back from 1970 or John Curry skating his "Don Quichotte" long program from the 1976 Olympics, its easy to see what the fuss is all about even though some of the jumps these two immortal skaters do are doubles. If I show Kurt's "Casablanca" (or, wow, "Singing in the Rain"), or Michelle's 1998 "East of Eden," or Daisuke's "Blues for Klook," anyone will look at it and see why I spent two hours yesterday evening going through posts on a thread to see how things turned out. But what do I show them of this winning performance--this gold-medal winning performance--to get them to see the position of Chan in the skating pantheon?
 

jfdw

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I do not post often after a win because feelings are so high and emotional. As a Canadian yes I want my skaters to do well. But I want them to be given marks they deserve and earn.Last night I felt that Patrick should not have won. But I do not feel that he should be verbally abused. He did not post he marks the judges did and they are the ones that should be called to task. Canada is getting a beating because of it. It is not the first time that a skater has won with a sub par performance and after Patrick has gone it will not be the last.

I know that I can say that when he is at his best Patrick can be the best in the world. He was not at his best last night and he of all people knows it. I do not think he was proud of his skate but you do not hand the medal back and say I do not deserve it or want it. He was very subdued in the post interview and said it was not a good performance the one that he wished he could have done.

The judges are not doing him any favor by giving him the gold medal for that performance. I feel they would have done him better to make him second or third. He then would have got the message improve or you will not win.

If his jump quality after the first two quads does not give him a wake up call I do not know what will. He needs his technical coach back now. He has tried it his way for a year and it is not working. Some parts of his program have improved but without the jumps he will falter. The pack is at his back . If he does not get a technical coach and correct the problems if he loses next year he has none to blame but himself. If he gets a technical coach back and corrects the problem and loses at least he will know he tried to improve. His coaching team must realize that now unless they are completely out of touch with reality.

It will be a tragedy for him if he loses the medal because he wants to do it his way. But please do not shoot the mesenger and the messenger's country because the judges are not doing their job. I do not think Canada is happy he won without doing his best and he he is not either. But Dennis Ten should hold his head high he was the man of the moment and his absolute joy in that medal was wonderful to watch and Janvier did a great job too faulting onto the podium. They had smiles as big as the world on the podium and well they should have.
jfdw
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Thought the morning after

Am I the only person here who likes COP?
I'm with you! :biggrin: I like COP, even if I think that some changes could be good...
I just checked the videos on YT, and I have to say that it was REALLY a weak competition! Ten is the real world champion, though... It's not Patrick's fault, nor the judges': they really did everything they could to give him that gold medal, they gave him 87 PCS (I still think that a two-points difference between them is a really generous score, Denis' arms position is so awkward!), huge GOEs, this system should penalize the falls harder, it's just this...
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
I do not post often after a win because feelings are so high and emotional. As a Canadian yes I want my skaters to do well. But I want them to be given marks they deserve and earn.Last night I felt that Patrick should not have won. But I do not feel that he should be verbally abused. He did not post he marks the judges did and they are the ones that should be called to task. Canada is getting a beating because of it. It is not the first time that a skater has won with a sub par performance and after Patrick has gone it will not be the last.

I know that I can say that when he is at his best Patrick can be the best in the world. He was not at his best last night and he of all people knows it. I do not think he was proud of his skate but you do not hand the medal back and say I do not deserve it or want it. He was very subdued in the post interview and said it was not a good performance the one that he wished he could have done.

The judges are not doing him any favor by giving him the gold medal for that performance. I feel they would have done him better to make him second or third. He then would have got the message improve or you will not win.

If his jump quality after the first two quads does not give him a wake up call I do not know what will. He needs his technical coach back now. He has tried it his way for a year and it is not working. Some parts of his program have improved but without the jumps he will falter. The pack is at his back . If he does not get a technical coach and correct the problems if he loses next year he has none to blame but himself. If he gets a technical coach back and corrects the problem and loses at least he will know he tried to improve. His coaching team must realize that now unless they are completely out of touch with reality.

It will be a tragedy for him if he loses the medal because he wants to do it his way. But please do not shoot the mesenger and the messenger's country because the judges are not doing their job. I do not think Canada is happy he won without doing his best and he he is not either. But Dennis Ten should hold his head high he was the man of the moment and his absolute joy in that medal was wonderful to watch and Janvier did a great job too faulting onto the podium. They had smiles as big as the world on the podium and well they should have.
jfdw

Nice post!
 

xabia

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Peter Liebers - recognition at last

Liebers is one of those skaters that always seems to have interesting music selection and program. He's even better live, if you get a chance to see him. One of the men's B-listers that I actually prefer to watch over some of the A-listers. And so far he's doing great here!

I heartily agree! He has such a fluid relaxed style and hasn't managed to reach his full potential in past performances. For me his was one of the most enjoyable performances of the evening. I can only think of another 3 men who have such natural fluidity when they skate. And he looks like a young Harrison Ford!
 

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Thought the morning after

Am I the only person here who likes COP?
I feel about COP the way I do about democracy: it's the worst system imaginable...except for all the others. ;)*

Actually, my objections are not so much to the system itself; there are many things that are quite logical and laudable about it (or at least more logical and laudable than 6.0).

My objections are that the principles are being applied in a decidedly illogical and un-laudable (or is that il-laudable? :p) way.

In the context of the Mens result, one example would be the way that falls are treated for PCS purposes. Although I do think that skating aficionados also share some small portion of the blame. Why? To illustrate, I was arguing just this point (that falls should affect PCS) yesterday, but many seemed to blithely dismiss it as some kind of attempt by a Yuna fan to whine about Caro's score (for the record, I argued exactly the same principles last year on this forum, when Yuna wasn't even around). It's only when the beneficiary is a somewhat unpopular skater like Patrick that suddenly the net is ablaze and up in arms.

My point: it's that, at least in my view, this was an issue of principle, and therefore reactions to it should be in a principled, universal and consistent manner, and not just when a historically atrocious result hits you over the head, or benefits/penalizes skaters you strongly like/dislike. The latter, passive attitude allows skating's institutional cadre to feel that the furor will inevitably blow over, and they can continue to get away with the way that they currently do things.

The whole anonymous judging thing irks me, and my current view is that the disadvantages outweigh the benefits. It makes the judges feel less personally accountable for their decisions. I'd be particularly interested in hearing others' thoughts on this point.





*paraphrasing Winston, who was just a veritable fountain of memorable quips
 
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