Should Gorshkov be fired? | Golden Skate

Should Gorshkov be fired?

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Sure three spots in dance and pairs but men 1 and ladies 2. They were supposed to have a good ladies program! Should anyone be punished for the catastrophe of this worlds in singles skating?
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
not bad worlds. gold in pairs was huge) skaters did ok job for the newcomers..
 

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Sure three spots in dance and pairs but men 1 and ladies 2. They were supposed to have a good ladies program! Should anyone be punished for the catastrophe of this worlds in singles skating?

This is so Soviet Union :laugh:.

Send the entire kit and kaboodle, administrators, coaches, skaters, trainers, masseuses, cooks and boot-polishers (the boot-lickers can stay) to count trees in Siberia; that way there's zero chance of missing the offending miscreant. ;)
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Top Russian girls are only 16. They are not ready to challenge skaters like Kim, Kostner and Mao who are much older and experienced. Normally after an Olympics the top veteran skaters and medalists retire and the new girls take over. Not this cycle. The gold and silver medalists from Vancouver are still skating and will be in Sochi and veterans like Kostner and Suzuki also didn't retire. Plus Tuk and Adelina didn't have enough time before the Olympics to really establish themselves. One Worlds appearance before the Olympics is just not enough time. Mao and Kim had almost 4 years to build there reputation before the 2010 Olympics.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
They dont have any good mens skaters, and their ladies still have a long way to go. Their showing wasnt really a surprise. OK it might have been thought Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva could do somewhat better and get the Russians 3 spots for Sochi, but that wasnt even a sure thing.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
This is so Soviet Union :laugh:.

Send the entire kit and kaboodle, administrators, coaches, skaters, trainers, masseuses, cooks and boot-polishers (the boot-lickers can stay) to count trees in Siberia; that way there's zero chance of missing the offending miscreant. ;)

:laugh:

Pairs and Ice Dance did ok, although ladies a bit disappointing but there wasn't any real chance when Kim Yuna announced her comeback
It was a bit shortsighted , they are 2018 skaters NOT 2014.

Gorshkov is very well respected
might as well fire Tarasova then etc for having too much influence and sending Kovtun
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Sure three spots in dance and pairs but men 1 and ladies 2. They were supposed to have a good ladies program! Should anyone be punished for the catastrophe of this worlds in singles skating?

No. It wasn't a catastrophe at all. OK, maybe sending Kovtun was a bone-headed decision, but this is Sotnikova's and Tuktamysheva's first Worlds. Finishing in the top 10 is actually a GOOD result for first-timers. Plus, it's worth noting that this year's Worlds was one of the deepest fields in awhile for the ladies. Sotnikova's and Tuktamysheva's point totals this year would have gotten Russia three spots last year (5th + 7th).
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I actually thought the outcome was okay - pairs gold is huge, I was very surprised and happy to see B/S take bronze in dance, I/K were a bit disappointing but by no means disaster, they are still a young team and they still finished in the top 10 with a respectable score. Same goes for Liza and Adelina - Liza's SP was a bit of a letdown but she came back very strong in the FS, Adelina held it together in BOTH programs which is huge for her, their results are maybe not the absolute best they could have done but still very good and respectable considering the depth of this field and that both girls are just 16. As for Kovtun, yeah that was a bit of a letdown, but 2 spots for men was a crapshoot anyways without Plushenko, I still thought Kovtun skated pretty well in the FS, and 17th as a 17 year old in this deep a field really isn't a bad result, especially given the mistakes he had. Also, Leonova's meltdown is just an argument as for why switching up the men's team may not have been wise after all or made a difference. The fed swapped Gosviani for Leonova and Leonova tanked, Gosviani may not have scored or placed better, but Leonova completely underperformed and was lucky to get the scores she did so it doesn't even matter. Then for the men, the fed didn't swap Kovtun for Menshov and Kovtun didn't make top 10 - so there you have it, the switched one of the teams and it didn't work out, didn't switch the other and it didn't work out. There's no way to know if Menshov would have done better, my guess is he probably would have but not good enough to make the top 10, so in that sense, I think giving Kovtun the experience is worth it because he is so young and has a lot of promise for the future whereas Menshov is almost 30 and on his way out, surely after next season he will retire.

It's sad we only get to see 2 Russian girls in Sochi next season but in a way maybe it's good because it will push the girls to do better, Liza to not mess up the SP and choose programs that show her off better, Adelina to work on getting full rotation credit for her jumps and not making headcase mistakes. Julia still has a chance too but she's soo young still and has plenty to work on so it's not a travesty if we don't get to see her until 2018. And then apart from those 3, everyone else has really been disappointing recently anyways - Leonova, Korobeynikova, Makarova, Shelepen, Biryukova, etc. or is otherwise very young, like Radionova who is not even old enough for Sochi, or Pogorilaya who is just the same age as Julia but with minimal experience so again 2018 will probably be a better time for her anyways, even Gosviani is only 16 so if she can improve her technical side, 2018 isn't out of the question either. Russian ladies are in a transitional age and I think Liza and Adelina have done VERY well this season given all the pressure on them and the obvious difficulties of dealing with the physical and mental changes of adolescence.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Kovtun bombed the SP and the second half of the FS and was 17th. Menshov has been very consistent all season and would very likely have finished top 10. That was a HUGE mistake, but I think the heavy hand of Tarasova was behind Kovtun's selection. Tatiana wields a lot of power from behind the scenes.

As for the ladies, who else could they have sent? Tuk and Sot medaled at Europeans, Tuk made it to the GPF, and Sot won a GP medal. Lipnitskaia and Radionova are too young, and Pogorilaya doesn't have the experience. The third lady was a choice between Alena Leonova and Nikol Gosviani. Gosviani was just OK at Euros, and at least Alena had a World silver medal on her resume. Too bad she laid the same bomb at worlds she'd been laying all season.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Pogorilaya is too young too, she is the same age as Julia. I thought she was born in April 97, but in reality April 98. Had she been old enough I think she would have been a smart choice for the 3rd spot, and likely would have been sent as she finished ahead of Gosviani and Leonova (and anyone else in consideration not already on the team) at Nationals and was really consistent this season as a whole. Gosviani should have gotten to go here but the result would have likely been similar but oh well. 2018 may be better for these girls anyways, if Julia is still struggling with injuries and puberty next season it may be just as well if she doesn't make it to the Olympics so she doesn't get pushed too hard too fast and wind up seriously injured or damaging her :rock: confidence.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
Pogorilaya is too young too, she is the same age as Julia. I thought she was born in April 97, but in reality April 98. Had she been old enough I think she would have been a smart choice for the 3rd spot, and likely would have been sent as she finished ahead of Gosviani and Leonova (and anyone else in consideration not already on the team) at Nationals and was really consistent this season as a whole. Gosviani should have gotten to go here but the result would have likely been similar but oh well. 2018 may be better for these girls anyways, if Julia is still struggling with injuries and puberty next season it may be just as well if she doesn't make it to the Olympics so she doesn't get pushed too hard too fast and wind up seriously injured or damaging her :rock: confidence.

Or dubbed a washed-up has-been for one non-stellar performance....
 

invisiblespiral

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
This is so Soviet Union :laugh:.

Send the entire kit and kaboodle, administrators, coaches, skaters, trainers, masseuses, cooks and boot-polishers (the boot-lickers can stay) to count trees in Siberia; that way there's zero chance of missing the offending miscreant. ;)

:laugh:
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I was wondering what the conversation with Tat and Mishin will be.

I am sure it would be a great education in delivering Russian insults in the frostiest ways possible, particularly since Mishin was pulling for Menshov.

Whoever said that the selectors deserved a slap over the wrist for sending Kovtun; no, they deserve a punch in the face.
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Blame Plushenko. He was supposed to go to Worlds, win at least a silver medal, and get Russia three spots for the Men. He was injured, so Russia gets one.

I&K have been a hot mess since they moved up to seniors. They have gone backwards under Morosov and they were assigned to him precisely because they weren't doing well under Zhulin, who had little patience for their lack of work ethic. They had better results and better placements under Zhulin than they've had under Morosov.

I have always said that expectations for this team way outstripped any potential I saw in them. The Russian fed was convinced that if V&M and D&W could move up to Seniors and win the OGM and the OSM four years later, I&K could do it too. But I&K had only been skating together for 18 months when they won Jr. Worlds, and V&M and D&W had both been skating together for more than 10 years when they moved up to senior. Big difference in experience.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Blame Plushenko. He was supposed to go to Worlds, win at least a silver medal, and get Russia three spots for the Men. He was injured, so Russia gets one.

I&K have been a hot mess since they moved up to seniors. They have gone backwards under Morosov and they were assigned to him precisely because they weren't doing well under Zhulin, who had little patience for their lack of work ethic. They had better results and better placements under Zhulin than they've had under Morosov.

I have always said that expectations for this team way outstripped any potential I saw in them. The Russian fed was convinced that if V&M and D&W could move up to Seniors and win the OGM and the OSM four years later, I&K could do it too. But I&K had only been skating together for 18 months when they won Jr. Worlds, and V&M and D&W had both been skating together for more than 10 years when they moved up to senior. Big difference in experience.

I still can't understand the shade almost perpetually shown at I/K. Given what I remember, I/K had their best GP season, EC and Worlds result(s) with Morozov and not Zhulin. Their worst result with Morozov was Worlds 2013. Zhulin may be a great creative genius but maybe they just couldn't bear up under his methods. Maybe at the time they were too thin skinned? But their work ethic appears to have improved. I think it is too early to write off the current coaching situation.

If you remember at the beginning of the season Lena dislocated her shoulder, so I imagine that would have interfered with training of lifts. Also, if you look at Worlds training footage Lena had a small patch on her back. So they were not 100% here. Nikita also makes mention of it in an interview after the World Championships. ( So maybe we could cut them just a little slack. They need more time, they and S/S are going through growing pains. But I think in the years to come they will both be very hard to beat.
 

caseyl23

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Top Russian girls are only 16. They are not ready to challenge skaters like Kim, Kostner and Mao who are much older and experienced. Normally after an Olympics the top veteran skaters and medalists retire and the new girls take over. Not this cycle. The gold and silver medalists from Vancouver are still skating and will be in Sochi and veterans like Kostner and Suzuki also didn't retire. Plus Tuk and Adelina didn't have enough time before the Olympics to really establish themselves. One Worlds appearance before the Olympics is just not enough time. Mao and Kim had almost 4 years to build there reputation before the 2010 Olympics.

Out of curiosity, what do you think Tuktamysheva, Sotnikova and the Russian Federation think of their performances? Yes, they are only 16, but the bottom five girls in the top 10 were all first-timers at Worlds, and the Russians finished behind Gold, who was solid, but not exactly stellar; Li, who was stellar in the free skate but not the short program; and Osmond, who was stellar in the short program, but not the free skate. I have a hard time believing that finishing fourth and fifth out of that group is going to be considered a good thing, considering their performances the past couple years.
 
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