Conclusions for the 2013 World Championships | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Conclusions for the 2013 World Championships

flutzy13

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Hi everyone. Long-time lurker. Occasional poster. I'm going to try to post more in the exciting run up to Sochi. My take-aways:

All the Gracie nay-sayers are silenced. She came in 5th in the free and fought through her nerves. She did not pop or fall. Even her PCS were decent. With more clean programs, she could post some huge scores next year. I would not be surprise if she goes into Sochi as National Champ. Ashley did her job too but she will need to up her technical ante to hang with a more confident Gracie and challenge for the podium in Sochi.

Kim is back. I fully expect her to win the Olympics.

The clean program means very little these days. See Chan, S/S, even Kostner, especially in her short.

Osmond and Li were both joys to watch. Carolina is the most exquisite and musical skater but silver with 2 falls seems wrong when I grew up watching 6.0 where she would have had to battle for bronze after falling in the short. Mao looked like she was going through the motions- love her though, hope she can be more up there with Yuna next year. Feel bad Kanako was 4th with 2 solid programs. Heartbroken for Suzuki. Sad the Russians only managed 2 spots with their talented field for their home Olympics

The ice dance rivalry is one of the ages. Carmen looked the best it had but I think D/W were the rightful winner of the FD and the competition. Huge congrats to them for doing it when so many seemed to write them off on VM/M's home turf. I think with this competition they established themselves as the better team at the moment and the Sochi favorites. I cannot believe these teams continue to train together but somehow it seems to work. Will be very curious to see what V/M do program wise next year. I also wonder if Marina can come up with 2 more perfect vehicles to showcase D/W's speed and technical prowess than she did this year.

W/P came back strong to let the world know they intend to fight b/S for that bronze. However, judges seem firmly in B/S camp although the Italians made a nice case for themselves. The Shibs decline continues- C&B are now solidly the US number 2 with Igor behind them.

V/T and S/S will go 1-2 at the Olympics. V/T were beautiful and I cannot imagine them not being the champions at home. S/S were propped both programs by the judges who will not let them fall below silver. Gutsy on the 3A though. The Canadians should battle for bronze.


Men- I really just can't get into Chan. Hats off to Max for a solid debut and Denis Ten who surprised the world.
 

Leonardo

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Conclusion: inflation makes the men's competition look the most revolting sports event in recent history. Not only the judges are pathetic, but the skater as well.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013...ing-worlds-i-truly-believe-i-deserved-to-win/

“If I go back and study it, I think that the amount of time I’ve fallen, and combine both the short and long programs, and count the number of mistakes I made, I don’t think I made more than Denis did or Javier (Fernandez, bronze medalist) did or anyone,” he said.

Seriously??????????
 

Eislauf

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2012
If Chan is also overmarked at Sochi, the judges will have only themselves to blame when the sport continues to plummet in fans, TV coverage and popularity here in the US.

The best book I've read about all the collusion and dealmaking in figure skating judging at the national and olympic level was written by Jon Jackson, a former USFSA international-level judge. It's called: On Edge: Backroom Dealing, Cocktail Scheming, Triple Axels, and How Top Skaters Get Screwed.
 

joyfuls

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I think the reason why the sport has died down in the US is mainly because they currently don't have a dominating skater like Michelle Kwan. Yes, D/W are great ice dancers, but ice dancing was never that popular among the US fans. I also find it a lot harder to watch as a casual viewer because of the way the judging works. The average person won't be able to tell which edge their on and such.

Figure skating has become much more popular in Asia and I think that's a good thing. Even if it's not as big as it once was in the US, I wouldn't say it's a dead sport. What the US really needs is to find a great skater that is able to top the podium. I don't think the ISU cares that figure skating is not that relevant in the US anymore because you know what? Figure skating has gotten more popular in other countries. I believe that the US will slowly find their way back into figure skating soon though.
 

suzukifan27

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
I think the reason why the sport has died down in the US is mainly because they currently don't have a dominating skater like Michelle Kwan. .

I've been hearing this conventional wisdom for too long. In my opinion, FS is no longer popular in NA is because people have moved on to some more interesting sporting events instead of a very subjective judging 'sport'. It will never come back as a mainstream sport even if American ladies win multiple world titles.
 

gottadance

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
for me ,the 2 countries that should be smiling are the US and Canada.

Canada:
excellent pairs performances and results - with 3 teams next season it will be super intetresting to see who Tran selects as his partner and how quickly they might become competitive. I love Swigers and partner but they just dont see to " cut it" with international panels
Good result for Osmond - hope Skate Canada doesnt rush her though - she is clearly not as mature as some others of her age and needs to add considerable polish and conditioning - I hope she will get programs that are less over-choreographed and of course she should ( and I am sure will ) add a triple/triple to her long program- All that said she, IMHO, has great potential but perhaps not to medal in Sochi but rather at the 2018 games ?

Men - PC can win OGM IF he gets his act in gear soon - he needs to make his mind up about wher he is going to train and he must get a jump coach at the verey least. I didnt think Boheme was all that wonderful and I wonder if Wilson is the right choreographer for Patrick - maybe both programs by Buttle might be better or even get Shae-Lynne involved ?
I thought Kevins result was wonderful given the " popped " cyst on his knee that apparently forced a reduced training schedule leading up to London.

I do beleive that V/M can very much rebound from this 2nd place. More than in any other division it seems to me that program and music choice are paramount in Ice Dancing. Clearly the ISU wants light " frothy" programs and Carmen certainly didnt fit that bill ( although I just loved it personally !!).I know I will get clobbered for this but I think a return to Shilband might be in order if only to give them a much needed change of scenery.

US -

great work by Max Aaron but I dont think he has enough of the look the international judges seem to favor to medal in Sochi . I still thin the USFSA made a huge mistake in not sending Joshua Farris to worlds purely for the expsure and experience as he cold very well make the US team for Sochi. I think Jason Brown is a bigger talent in the long run but is at least a year behind Joshua in his development and I hope will be given the chance to develp slowyl and surely for 2018. Ultimately I think the sky is the limit for Jason but not for 2014

Great going by A
 

hurrah

Medalist
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
I was just thinking through what Mao's jump content might be next season, and if she goes for the same jump content as this season, it will be:

3axel
3flip-3loop
3loop (which can be turned into 3loop-3loop)
3lutz
3salchow
2axel-3toeloop
3flip-2loop-2loop

This is an eight triple program, which anyone with any knowledge of figure skating knows is an incredible feat. But if Mao gets negative GOEs on maybe half of these jump passes, she would still lose to a totally clean program that has loads of double jumps and easier triples.

What do you think of this?
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Virtue and her partner wish they had the speed of their rivals. They have always been relatively "slow" when compared to the 2013 world champions. It is just that, (unfairly!) Virtue and her partner have relied on their mushy 'romantic' (whatever... ) connection to win up until now. I agree that Ice Dance should look airy and effortless, this is why last year's Die Fledermaus was an instant classic! Honestly, the real question is not whether Virtue and her partner are done, but rather if the judges will continue to acknowledge the greatness of their superior rivals... not holding my breath or making bets...

Oh come now. V/M are definitely slower than D/W but they are faster than anyone else out there by some measure, at least 95% of the time. Yesterday they did look off to me but that is one time. While I do think D/W have overtaken them generally (don't hate me, Voir lovers! I am one of you!) there is more to SS and to performance than just speed (which, as I have already stated, V/M do in fact have). There are edges (and ice dance is all edges) and lines and interpretation and flow. Marlie have caught up on all of this except for maybe lines (Meryl has to work on hers some still, but zomg it is like she is a different skater than she used to be with how much better she already is) but V/M for really all of their career have had edging and lines and interpretation that other teams would kill for- and they had them naturally, to boot.

While now, after many many years, I am a bigger Marlie fan than Voir fan, Voir is actually the only ice dance team to this point in my life that I fell in love with on first viewing all the way back at JW in 2004. They have something very, very special and have almost always, in fact, looked airy and effortless out there, yesterday notwithstanding.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Yeah, whatever else you can say about Voir, they are indeed THAT GOOD, which is why it is so frustrating that they haven't really advanced since Vancouver. A good part of that has to do with Tessa's chronic shin problems, But a good part of it can be laid to choreography. For me, Carmen has a brilliant opening, a brilliant closing half, but sags in the middle when they glom traditional ice dancing in-hold patterns to the exciting tres moderne stuff that came before and after. They had the same problem with their samba long--genius opening, exciting close, saggy middle. And don't get me started about Funny Face--a second-rate knock off of a second-rate musical (it should tell you something when the two most memorable numbers in a Fred Astaire musical--the incomparable "Think Pink" sung by the legendary Kay Thompson and the hilarious bebop parody danced by Audrey Hepburn--do not involve Fred Astaire at all! And really the *best* part of that movie is Audrey's modeling montage in Paris). And there is no guarantee AT ALL that Marlie are going to dominate next year like they did this year. That's the reason why this rivalry is so good. In fifty years I bet people will still be talking about it.

Really, it's fine to be a fan of one dance team or another, but give credit where credit is eminently due.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
My conclusions:

-Voloszhar & Trankov, Yu Na Kim, and Davis & White are the clear and heavy favorites for the Olympic Gold in their categories.

-Canada will win the Team Event Gold.

-There are lots of good young ladies on the rise and womens skating will be in fine hands when Kim, Kostner, and Asada all retire following the 2014 season.

-The sport will be better off when Patrick Chan retires and he will not be missed.

-Denis Ten's star which had flickered out is one the rise again.

-Fernandez did not have his best competition but his GOE and PCS compared more favorably in the past vs Hanyu's, which is a good omen for their future battles.

-Takahashi might be a spent force at this point.

-Canadian pairs are on the rise in a huge way.

-Sui & Hong are at the end of their partnership and Hong at the end of his skating career most likely.

-Kostner is a new women from the earlier career headcase and is very tough and reliable now.

-Weaver & Poje are back on track and still very much contenders heading into next season and beyond.

ditto. also I might add that Davis and White's chances of wining olympic gold have increased exponentially (although as of right now Virtue and Moir are still the favorites in my book especially in light of the fact of a paso doble themed SD) why is it always a spanish-themed SD for the olympics????
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
I was just thinking through what Mao's jump content might be next season, and if she goes for the same jump content as this season, it will be:

3axel
3flip-3loop
3loop (which can be turned into 3loop-3loop)
3lutz
3salchow
2axel-3toeloop
3flip-2loop-2loop

This is an eight triple program, which anyone with any knowledge of figure skating knows is an incredible feat. But if Mao gets negative GOEs on maybe half of these jump passes, she would still lose to a totally clean program that has loads of double jumps and easier triples.

What do you think of this?

I think if anyone can do it is Mao Asada. I think she is on the right track.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
I am hearing that the ISU (particularly the Ice Dance Tech Committee) is upset over the many 3-minute breaks (for various reasons) that occurred in the FD just in this season alone and that this issue will be addressed by the ISU mini-meeting this summer. Whether the ISU will make any changes to the current rule on this issue before the OWG in Sochi is anyone's guess.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
There so many of them, including at the Junior level, that it's got to affect scheduling, not just grading.

But I think the situation will be worse if it spreads to singles & pairs, since how do you give someone a bonus for doing a difficult skill late in the program, if they just took a 3 minutes break?

I'll be interested to see what comes of this meeting.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I think the rule on "breaks" should be this: No breaks.

The music starts, and it keeps going till the end. The only acceptable stoppage of a program without penalty should be due to circumstances completely beyond a skater's control.

Examples: Power outages or something being thrown onto the ice during a performance.

Non-examples: Injuries sustained before or during performances, costume malfunctions, and equipment failures. Seriously, if you lose a chance at an Olympic medal because your skate string broke... I guess you'll check them out beforehand next time.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
The best book I've read about all the collusion and dealmaking in figure skating judging at the national and olympic level was written by Jon Jackson, a former USFSA international-level judge. It's called: On Edge: Backroom Dealing, Cocktail Scheming, Triple Axels, and How Top Skaters Get Screwed.
Thanks. Just ordered it from Amazon for a penny plus shipping. I know nothing about skating except what I like. But I have seen things that knowledgable fans see, and we just shake our heads. Until the individual judge's countrys of origin and marks are revealed, I have to question the validity of the new system. It can be tweeked, surely, to make it better than it is without that, but I want those judges accountable.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
I read this book the year it came out. All of the issues Jackson speaks about occurred under the 6.0 judging system and was considered highly controversial by many in the figure skating community and panned by many as well. I no longer have this copy unfortunately but thought a lot of it was petty griping.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Worlds Ice Dancing Event From Sonia Bianchetti Garbato (Excerpt)
The most exciting and stimulating event was, once again, ice dancing
Meryl Davis and Charlie White (USA) won the gold medal. The silver medal went to Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir (CAN) and the bronze medal to Ekaterina Bobrova and Dmitri Soloviev (RUS).
Davis/White’s performance to “Notre Dame de Paris” was breathtaking. Their program is highlighted by intricate footwork and difficult lifts, but what is fantastic and unique is the way they skate, their unison, their passion. They talk with their bodies and they transmit a deep artistic emotion. Just fabulous. Thanks, Meryl and Charlie! You gave me a moment of intense joy and emotion that is so rare in skating nowadays.
Virtue/Moir were also incredible. They performed a passionate, sensuous and captivating program with some innovative lifts. Their skating is superb and their interpretation of a modern Carmen reached the heart of the public, which expressed their appreciation with great enthusiasm and a standing ovation.
Dancing to “Man With A Harmonica” and “Tosca”, Bobrova/Soloviev, the European champions, were ranked fourth in the free dance, but overall held on to third place to take their first world medal.
Anna Cappellini and Luca La Notte (ITA) placed 3rd in the free dance but placed 4th overall by a 1.09-point difference. Anna and Luca really interpreted Carmen and Don José with passion and emotion.
(Note balance of article at World Figure Skating http://fskating.com/2013/03/a-wonderful-world-championships.html
Hope this link works.
 
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