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World Team Trophy Entries

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
I was hoping the Shibutani's would get the spot if Davis/White were not going :(

But I'm happy Akiko got the spot for Japan!
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
It's too bad, especially since the Shibutanis have a great fan base in Japan, but Chock & Bates finished ahead of them at 4CC's, Nationals, & Worlds. C&B deserved to be asked.

And since V&M, D&W, are staying home, and Marina is starting on Olympic programs, probably that's where the Shibs should be too.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
All this pushing of kovtun and assignments for kovtun makes me think everyone in the Russian federation knows plushenko is not going to go or compete and the person will be kovtun. That's why he's getting all these assignments for no reason whatsoever.

I think everyone knows Plushenko is a very real chance to not go. However, if that happens, I want to see a FAIR fight between Voronov, Menshov, Gachinski and Kovtun for that one spot.

But Tarasova is involved, so the fight won't be fair. I bet Kovtun could finish fourth behind those three at next year's Nationals and they'd still somehow find a way for him to go.

If Kovtun skates well that may not happen, however. Menshov had a consistent season but so did Kovtun. Kovtun had 2 meh competitions - Nats and Worlds, but was very strong at all his other events. If I had to guess, at WTT Menshov will beat him, but by a very narrow margin. It's not like Menshov is some kind of skate god and Kovtun is a piece of crap kid like some are suggesting. He beat Han Yan at JGP Croatia and Farris and Brown at JGPF, and those guys are all good, winning 4CC bronze and JWC gold and silver this season. Clearly he is very talented.

Han Yan was hardly at the pinnacle of his strength during the JGP this year. And I'm sure it's quite easy to beat a skater who's taken enough Benadryl to knock himself out right before the LP (as Farris had at JGPF). While Kovtun's performance was quite astonishing at JGPF, it's still a Junior level program. At Seniors, which is what matters here, he has not been at all convincing.

I would have been extremely interested to see how a Brown/Farris/Kovtun fight would have looked at JWC. Kovtun may have expected Farris, but Brown's performances may have been a nasty surprise.

O
This will make it a little harder for the US. Glad Jeremy is going though!

Jeremy going will DEFINITELY make it harder for the US!


This is what I don't get. The Russian Fed is harping about giving experience to Kovtun. But the USFSA don't seem to bother with it? Surely even someone as energetic and bouncy as Max needs a rest by now, and what of their Juniors who are going Senior next year? Why not use the opportunity to give Farris or Brown a little exposure at the Senior level? They did it to Gracie Gold last year.

Oh wait, I forgot, the men aren't important to the USFSA, only the ladies can be superstars :rolleye:
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
You point out how his problems started with senior length skates starting at nationals. Once he it seniors because all his training and success was in juniors he started to bomb horribly. It does not matter that menshov is Not a skate god he was better than kovtun. There is a difference between juniors and seniors and kovtun shows difficultly handling it. Euros was mixed for kovtun not any kind of great triumph. He was lucky plushenko withdrew.

Okay so maybe he would have been better off going to JW. Given how well Joshua and Jason skated there, if Kovtun had competed and won (which I think he would have had a good possibility of doing, especially if he landed 1 or 2 quads there), then everyone would be talking about how great he is and how he should have been sent to senior worlds because he is the future of our sport and needs to compete in Sochi, instead of how people are talking like he's terrible now. It's kind of silly, because the only way people wouldn't get upset would be if Menshov went to Worlds and placed top 10 and Kovtun went to JW and didn't win, any other outcome and there will be wuzrobbing arguments either way.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
Okay so maybe he would have been better off going to JW. Given how well Joshua and Jason skated there, if Kovtun had competed and won (which I think he would have had a good possibility of doing, especially if he landed 1 or 2 quads there), then everyone would be talking about how great he is and how he should have been sent to senior worlds because he is the future of our sport and needs to compete in Sochi, instead of how people are talking like he's terrible now. It's kind of silly, because the only way people wouldn't get upset would be if Menshov went to Worlds and placed top 10 and Kovtun went to JW and didn't win, any other outcome and there will be wuzrobbing arguments either way.

Or the Russian Fed could have just done the right thing in the first place and sent Menshov to Euros and told Kovtun that since he could only finish 5th at Nationals he was going to JWC.

The US sent their 4th to JWC and I don't see anyone wuzrobbing him. (In fact, Russia could also have sent THEIR 4th...which may have been popcorn worthy.)
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Also regarding WTT, perhaps USFS asked Farris or Brown but they declined because they are already on their offseasons and preparing to graduate highschool in the next couple months. Or Jeremy was probably 1st on the list and when he accepted the invite, that was the end of it. You would assume that Josh and Jason were on the list to be asked, likely right after Jeremy, or perhaps with Dornbush in between, but there's no way of knowing. Apparently other ladies (I'm assuming Mirai and/or Agnes) were offered WTT last season and declined and only then was Gracie invited (although that was a bit :rolleye: anyways considering she didn't even compete as a senior at nationals and had to make a senior FS specifically for the purpose of WTT, showing how hard the USFS wanted to push her).

On some level though, I do agree, I'm a bit upset about how Gracie, and in the case of Russia, Kovtun, are able to come out of nowhere and get special treatment and politiking just because they have promise. I'm still convinced USFS talked Josh Farris out of competing on the senior GP this season and that staying junior this season was not a decision he or his coaches particularly wanted, but rather accepted, and while it ended up working out for him, with 2 spots on the Olympics team, idk, getting out on the GP this season and skating well could have made the difference in 2nd or 3rd place at US Nats instead of 4th and a trip to 4CC or Worlds, which with a good result could help give him a better chance to make the Olympic team than he does now, even as JWC. And all this, oh he only would have gotten 1 spot, I'm pretty sure he could have gotten 2 if the USFS was willing to push for him to get 2 instead of pushing for the likes of Rippon, Miner, and Dornbush to get 2 and giving SA to Doug Razzano. Farris won silver at JW just like Gracie (but by a 0.5 point margin instead of a 15 point one :slink:), and unlike Gracie, he had an established reputation internationally and decent WS, having qualified for the JGPF twice, winning bronze at it earlier that season in addition to winning 3 JGP golds at that time (compared to Gracie's 1) and another JGP silver. Given all that, the fact that Gracie was able to get 2 GPs and one was not Skate America just makes me think the Feds really have the ability to do whatever they want in regards to skaters, they needed a "star" in ladies so jumped on the Gracie Gold bandwagon and pushed for her to get as much exposure as possible so she can be sent to Sochi. Poor Christina Gao getting held down at Nationals after doing better than Gracie on the GP just to make sure Gracie does enough to make the Worlds team after flubbing the SP because it seems like the plan all along was to get Gold on the senior worlds team at whatever cost.

But then for the men...oh no, we don't need a new star, we are going to sit around and twiddle our thumbs and hope one of these guys who have been around for awhile and have not proved themselves yet are going to suddenly become a star now. It's just frustrating. Seeing Razzano decline this season and Rippon and Miner not doing well at Worlds in 2 consecutive years, and Abbott doing okay but delivering programs far below his potential, in both years being nowhere close to gaining 3 spots, you think they would change things up by now. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep Jason Brown on the JGP another season to make room for Lysacek comebacks, Abbott space cadet performances, and lukewarm results from Rippon and Miner on the GP rosters...if they do I will be really angry, like Joshua, Jason too was ready to compete on the GP this season, and after that great FS at JW he definitely belongs on the senior ranks now.

Kovtun is basically getting Gracie Gold treatment and while I get it on some level in both cases, as they are really talented, it's a little annoying, as it's not like they are the only young talented skaters in their respective countries, not by a long shot. And while I do relate Menshov to more of an Abbott in that he is older, near the end of his career, and has generally been inconsistent, he did skate pretty well this season and with better consistency than before, but it didn't get rewarded. In that sense he's a lot like Christina Gao, but having finished 3rd at Nationals instead of 5th!
 

SkateFan66

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Also regarding WTT, perhaps USFS asked Farris or Brown but they declined because they are already on their offseasons and preparing to graduate highschool in the next couple months. Or Jeremy was probably 1st on the list and when he accepted the invite, that was the end of it. You would assume that Josh and Jason were on the list to be asked, likely right after Jeremy, or perhaps with Dornbush in between, but there's no way of knowing. Apparently other ladies (I'm assuming Mirai and/or Agnes) were offered WTT last season and declined and only then was Gracie invited (although that was a bit :rolleye: anyways considering she didn't even compete as a senior at nationals and had to make a senior FS specifically for the purpose of WTT, showing how hard the USFS wanted to push her).

On some level though, I do agree, I'm a bit upset about how Gracie, and in the case of Russia, Kovtun, are able to come out of nowhere and get special treatment and politiking just because they have promise. I'm still convinced USFS talked Josh Farris out of competing on the senior GP this season and that staying junior this season was not a decision he or his coaches particularly wanted, but rather accepted, and while it ended up working out for him, with 2 spots on the Olympics team, idk, getting out on the GP this season and skating well could have made the difference in 2nd or 3rd place at US Nats instead of 4th and a trip to 4CC or Worlds, which with a good result could help give him a better chance to make the Olympic team than he does now, even as JWC. And all this, oh he only would have gotten 1 spot, I'm pretty sure he could have gotten 2 if the USFS was willing to push for him to get 2 instead of pushing for the likes of Rippon, Miner, and Dornbush to get 2 and giving SA to Doug Razzano. Farris won silver at JW just like Gracie (but by a 0.5 point margin instead of a 15 point one :slink:), and unlike Gracie, he had an established reputation internationally and decent WS, having qualified for the JGPF twice, winning bronze at it earlier that season in addition to winning 3 JGP golds at that time (compared to Gracie's 1) and another JGP silver. Given all that, the fact that Gracie was able to get 2 GPs and one was not Skate America just makes me think the Feds really have the ability to do whatever they want in regards to skaters, they needed a "star" in ladies so jumped on the Gracie Gold bandwagon and pushed for her to get as much exposure as possible so she can be sent to Sochi. Poor Christina Gao getting held down at Nationals after doing better than Gracie on the GP just to make sure Gracie does enough to make the Worlds team after flubbing the SP because it seems like the plan all along was to get Gold on the senior worlds team at whatever cost.

But then for the men...oh no, we don't need a new star, we are going to sit around and twiddle our thumbs and hope one of these guys who have been around for awhile and have not proved themselves yet are going to suddenly become a star now. It's just frustrating. Seeing Razzano decline this season and Rippon and Miner not doing well at Worlds in 2 consecutive years, and Abbott doing okay but delivering programs far below his potential, in both years being nowhere close to gaining 3 spots, you think they would change things up by now. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep Jason Brown on the JGP another season to make room for Lysacek comebacks, Abbott space cadet performances, and lukewarm results from Rippon and Miner on the GP rosters...if they do I will be really angry, like Joshua, Jason too was ready to compete on the GP this season, and after that great FS at JW he definitely belongs on the senior ranks now.

Kovtun is basically getting Gracie Gold treatment and while I get it on some level in both cases, as they are really talented, it's a little annoying, as it's not like they are the only young talented skaters in their respective countries, not by a long shot. And while I do relate Menshov to more of an Abbott in that he is older, near the end of his career, and has generally been inconsistent, he did skate pretty well this season and with better consistency than before, but it didn't get rewarded. In that sense he's a lot like Christina Gao, but having finished 3rd at Nationals instead of 5th!

In your constant rants about how USFSA does not support Farris, you constantly ignore the fact that Farris finished 21st (last) at 2011 US Nationals and 16th at 2012 US Nationals. All of thoses skaters that you constantly trash and disrespect, (Miner, Abbott, Razzano, etc.), ALL finished ahead of Farris at the 2011 and 2012 Nationals and thus EARNED the right to be considered for 2012-13 international senior assignments ahead of Farris. In my opinion, Farris benefited from staying in the JGP this year, and actually increased his chances of making the Olympic team.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Gracie got the same PCS at Worlds, nearly, as she got at US Nationals, with a program that was not as well skated as at Nationals. She earned her second place spot at Nationals, and her trip to Worlds. Furthermore, she finished 6th in her Worlds debut and helped Ashley get those 3 spots for Olympics, one of which Christina may be lucky enough to earn.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/SEG004.HTM
Gracie's 5th place finish in the Worlds LP, PCS highlighted. Note that again, she beat Ashley in the LP:
Gracie GOLD USA 125.40 65.22 60.18 7.57 7.25 7.61 7.57 7.61 0.00 #13

Gracie's winning US Nat's LP scores


Free Skate Score Executed Elements Factored Program Components Deductions

132.49 71.14 61.35 0.00

Comparing Kovtun to Gracie is simply not warranted, particularly when you're trying to make a case for Gao, whose last performance as a junior was last year's Junior Worlds, at which she finished 7th.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wjc2012/CAT006RS.HTM

a date that was exactly the same as Gracie's last junior competition and a competition in which Gracie placed 2nd.

So I see no comparison whatsoever between Kovtun, who finished behind Menshov and Voronov at Russian Nationals & bombed at Worlds, and Gracie, who finished ahead of Mirai, Agnes & Christina at US Nationals, and beat Ashley in the LP, and who finished a very respectable sixth at Worlds in a very competitive field.

Gracie did not get any outstanding favors. She did not get a Skate America berth, for example. Christina did.

In fact, in a world where USFS might have been trying to give Gracie advantages, she would have gotten a 2nd JGP assignment in the 2011 2012 season rather than being given her only chance at the very last JGP so there was no way she could earn at JGPF slot.

So no, I don't see any similarity at all between the Russian fed's treatment of Kovtun & USFSA and Gracie.
 
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demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Courtesy of Dai's Forum.

-Schedule-

April 11th, 2013(THU)
Opening Ceremony 14:35〜
Dance (Short Dance) 15:15〜
Men's short 16:35〜
Ladies Short 18:40〜

April 12th, 2013(FRI)
Pair(Short) 16:00〜
Dance(Free Dance) 17:25〜
Men's Free 19:00〜

April 13th, 2013(SAT)
Pair(Free) 15:15〜
Ladies Free 16:50〜
Medal Presentataions18:50〜

April 14th, 2013(SUN)
Exhibition 14:00〜
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Urgh. Edited my post. Angry at life right now and it's just a stream of consciousness. Anyways. Some skaters get noticed by and win the Federations over by a small number of good competition results, and have the support of the Fed thereafter it seems, usually getting the benefit of the doubt even when it may not be warranted. Others do not. They can prove themselves internationally and do very well and still not get the same kind of attention, support, or opportunities from the Federations. Ultimately, if these individuals can do very, very well for themselves internationally, the Fed will take notice, but that still doesn't mean they will be judged as generously as others, or bad competition results won't be overlooked like it will for others, or that they will be assigned to events they arguably deserve more than others on the basis of the competitive results (internationally, recently, or as a whole).

Basically, let's just say I won't be surprised if Gao gets passed for an Olympic spot by someone skating a lot sloppier, Farris gets only 1 GP, and Brown returns to the JGP.

As for Kovtun, he will either deliver at the chances he's given or he won't, if he does, he can earn his hype and opportunities like Gold has and the situation becomes a little more understandable. If not, well, it might take awhile but if he consistently underperforms, the Fed will eventually turn its attention elsewhere, though not necessarily to the person who most deserves it.
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
silverlake22, Joshua has said that he was offered a Senior GP this year. He, Damon and Christy discussed it and made the choice to stay Junior as they believed that two JGPs, a JGPF (with a medal almost certain), and a calm build-up to Nationals with a return to JWC would be overall better for his scores and his WR than the potential of becoming too nervous at his only GP, not doing so well, and then getting dumped in response or having his confidence shattered going into Nationals. Damon once described Joshua as a very "emotional" skater and mentioned he has a hard time controlling his emotions sometimes. I'd rather see Josh have a magnificent season like this season, than watch his nerves get shattered at a single event and ruin it.

And Jason never even considered going Senior this year. He knew without the 3A he'd be eaten alive.

As for next year: the USFSA has a little problem. Max Aaron HAS to have two GPs. Ross Miner ought to get two as well as the silver medallist at Nats. Abbott may once again get two on the back of his bronze, though like you, I'd prefer to see the US not waste a second on him. Then you have Joshua, Jason, Lysacek, Weir (though I have my doubts about those two), Johnson, Dornbush, Rippon and co all fighting for the other GPs. While I can see the sense in Joshua getting two assignments, the USFSA has a problem with not having enough GP slots to go around.

In any case, Joshua has made a fine case as a contender for Olympic selection and a fine entry into the Senior level. I would have preferred to see him get the Senior exposure at WTT, but as another poster pointed out, he is likely post-season now, and working on graduating high school (he is homeschooled so he may have graduated already, I'm not sure. At any rate, Jason definitely has a graduation to attend, with honours too by the sounds of things).
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Christina had a great opportunity to ride the momentum she had acquired by two exemplary performances on the GP at the GPF. Unfortunately, she did not do well there. She also had three opportunities at Junior Worlds and finished eighth, fourth, and seventh.

http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00027952.htm
At the GPF, she was almost 20 points behind the fifth place finisher, Tuktamysheva.

This is exactly what she did in the 2010/2011 season when she finished 6th at the JGPF
http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00007230.htm


When looking for a girl to earn back the third place spot, which truly would you choose?

A girl who had 5 opportunities at a big international event and had struggled at all of them, had a silver and bronze at her GPs, and whose finish at US Nationals in seniors has been 5th for four years running (Gao); or a girl who had had a silver medal at Junior Worlds, a win in her only ever JGP, a silver medal at her second GP, and completely bombed her first GP (Recall that 4CC's had not occurred when this choice had to be made, and won US Juniors and finished 2nd in US Seniors in her first 2 US Nationals appearances (Gold)? Gracie is sort of 50/50 on big events, but Christina 0 for 5 (0 for 9 if you count 4 Senior Nationals).

Christina earned a lot of chances, and frankly, did not make the most of them. She seems to be doing better in Boston! I would not be surprised to see her at Skate America again. For one thing, Gracie & Ashley are both seeded in the same group and cannot be at the same GP, so there will be two spots for US girls at SkAm that didn't go to Worlds. I wish Christina every success and a lot of improvement in the coming years.

Yes, it is true that some skaters luck out, particularly when they perform will at their first ever big championships-I'm thinking Dornbush & Kovtun at their respective JGPFs and I&K. Sometimes the adulation by the Feds seems to go on far too long. Dornbush's 4CC's berth last year was a particularly heinous demonstration of favoritism.

However, as much as Gracie's rise may seem quick to you, it is based on talent and hard work and pretty good results, not any particular favors. It isn't like Ouriashev is a master politicker in any case, and he doesn't work in Colorado Springs where it is darn easy to politick USFSA because they are so close to the Broadmoor.

Josh will get 2 GPs. Whether SkAm is one of them, I can't say. He is going to be about 12th or so in the rankings, once the 3 years ago rankings are purged, and his season's best total score is also top 24. He will almost surely get 2 invites this year. The extra year in juniors beefed his rankings up very nicely.

Jason will only be about 20th in rankings. He might get 2 invitiations or not. USFSA might want him back on the JGP exactly because he's unlikely to make a big splash yet in seniors, and it's a good place for him to work on getting a quad, something that is completely necessary these days again in men's.

All of these kids are talented, and I look forward to seeing them do well next year.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
I believe the rule is that you HAVE TO compete at WTT if you are the top ranking skater/couple (two two for singles) AND you finish top 10 at Worlds. Otherwise everything is fair game.
Not so simple.
Team may be substituted by other team if includes skaters who are not highest in ranking.
But ISU may allow not highest ranked skaters/couples in team.

Remember past season, Ladies. Gracie Gold was not top ranking (one JGP Event, second place at WJC), but was at US team although there were several higher ranked US Ladies.

Yes, everything that ISU allows is fair game.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, the ISU definitely plays Calvin Ball with the rules of WTT.

http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00007230.htm

Calvinball is a game invented by Calvin in which one makes the rules up as one goes along. Rules cannot be used twice. No Calvinball game is like another. The game may involve wickets, mallets, volleyballs, and additional equipment as well as masks.

There is only one permanent rule in Calvinball: One can't play it in the same way twice. For example, in one game of Calvinball, the goal was to capture one's opponent's flag, whereas in a different game of Calvinball, the goal was to score points by hitting badminton shuttlecocks against trees using a croquet mallet. An apparent rule in Calvinball is that one must wear a black mask and that one isn't allowed to question the mask. Another apparent rule is that any new rule made up by each player must be accepted. A third apparent rule is that you cannot make any plays you made in a previous game.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
W/P are going to WTT instead of V/M. Cant say that I am surprised....
Me too, and now that D/W have WD, too, I think that 90% B/S will win... I'm not sure, but I don't think that P/B are going, too: because of his injury their Worlds result was not so good, and I don't think that they want to risk a worse injury because of a WTT, so C/J will probably go...
You should really pay attention to what she produced on the ice lately. She didn't fall and only singled a jump at her last 2 competitions (Europeans and Worlds). I know she had many other technical issues but that doesn't make her a headcase. She stayed on her feet and attacked her programs pretty well. She is Russia's best lady skater at this point also, this including your beloved Julia
I agree: I'm an Adelina fan, but it's evident that she's the best Russian lady at the moment, for me. I saw her at Euros, and I can tell you that there's no comparison between her SS and Liza's, and in the last big competitions she has been a lot more consistent than Liza (Euros, Adelina two good programs, only one mistake, Liza two mistakes in the SP, excellent FS; worlds, Adelina quite good SP and a couple of mistakes in the FS, Liza disastrous SP again, a couple of mistakes in the FS) and her scores have been a lot better than Julia's even with the mistakes; the only other girl that is as good as Adelina at the moment is Radionova.
 
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