Which THREE U.S. Ladies do you want to see at the Olympics next year? | Page 9 | Golden Skate

Which THREE U.S. Ladies do you want to see at the Olympics next year?

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
That being said, it would probably be in Yuna's best interest to not attempt 2018. In five years, several of the younger girls could easily be at or above her level (Tukt, Sotnikova, Gold, Osmond, Li).

I can't read the future, but Yu-Na has a lot of pride in the technical side of her skating such as her triple/triple combination and her lutz, etc. I don't think she would want to come back to competition unless she still had her big tricks--which aren't easy to maintain, even though Yu-Na makes her 3/3s look easy. A lot of extremely hard work and training goes into those 3/3s and I doubt she'd want to maintain that level throughout her 20s. She wants to go to Sochi and finish her career on a happy note. I don't think she wants to drag out her career forever--she'll go for show skating instead.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
I doubt Tukt, Sotnikova, Gold, Osmond, or Li will ever be above Kim's best level of skating which is amongst the very best in history (and the best in history under COP standards). The only one of those who I think might ever even come close to Kim's best level of skating someday are Gold and Li (maybe Tuks, no chance for Sotnikova or Osmond IMO, they could win World medals or even World titles in the future years, but wont reach Kim's peak of skating for sure). So Kim coming back or not, if she wanted to, would be completely dependent on whether she could revive her former standard of skating at a relatively advanced age for amateur skating, but it certainly wouldnt be those girls scaring her away ever. As for no records to chase if Kim wins in Sochi she would have a chance to tie Henjie's record of 3 Olympic Golds if she were to win in Korea, so that would be incentive. I dont think she would continue competing non stop, she might go to the post Olympic Worlds, but would almost certainly take a break for awhile, but then could return for the pre Olympic Worlds just like she did this time, in preperation for the Olympics.

I dunno. A lot can happen in five years, especially to a group of teenage skaters, so I'm not going to write off the possibility that any one of the younger girls can achieve or surpass Kim's current level of greatness. Gold and Sotnikova are already known for their stunning technical ability, though they still need the polish to make their jumps look as effortless as Kim's. Tuktamysheva and Osmond have various early-senior issues to work out, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them challenging for World medals in the near future. The only one who I worry for is Li--her presentation is reminiscent of a young Kim's, but I'm not impressed with her jumps. For comparison, her sparkling clean Worlds FS netted 127.54, while Gracie Gold's flawed FS (-GOE on 3 elements) clocked in at 125.40. Li will need better height, speed, and flow before she's ready to truly compete with the big guns of the next quadrennium.

Probably the best example of "ice is slippery" is Tara Lipinski--an entirely different skater than Kim, yes, but she soared from 15th at 1996 Worlds to World Champion in 1997, and then OGM in 1998.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Yu Na Kim at 17 was already WAY better than any of the skaters you mentioned currently are at that age or older, and she only continued to improve significantly each year since then. Based on that it would be a huge stretch for any of those to be at the level of Vancouver or even London or Los Angeles Yu Na Kim. It is never going to happen. Not to mention her record of 7 years of Senior competition not missing a single podium, quite possibly 2 Olympic Golds and 6 World medals and 3 Grand Prix final titles and so on.

I do like that group and I look forward to their taking over as the ones on top following the retirements of the vets after 2010, but Kim possibly deciding on coming back would be strictly on her own level of skating, and whether she could still skate at or close to her former level given age, injuries, time away, etc...
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
YuNa suffered several injuries especially to her back and hips as a young skater emerging onto the international scene. This can happen to any skater in the world but her chances were worsened by the poor rink conditions in S. Korea (heating issues, ice quality) as well as the fact that there was (is?) no figure skating boot expert in Korea leading to poorly fitted boots with misaligned blades.

She now has the financial resources to buy prohibitively expensive ice time on some of Korea's better ice rinks as well as fly to any skating boot expert in the world, but I can't imagine that her old injuries have completely disappeared and increasing age is no friend to existing or future sports injuries no matter how good one's technique is. I don't wish to see her in competition during the 2014-2018 quad for the single reason that I want her to go forward in the best possible health. If the Korean Skating Union or Korean Olympic Committee has any decency they will not try to coax her to return, especially when they do NOTHING to take advantage of the spike in interest in figure skating in Korea to build an ice rink that is dedicated to and affordable for aspiring figure skaters.

As for future prospects, add Elena Radionova to the mix.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Yu Na Kim at 17 was already WAY better than any of the skaters you mentioned currently are at that age or older, and she only continued to improve significantly each year since then. Based on that it would be a huge stretch for any of those to be at the level of Vancouver or even London or Los Angeles Yu Na Kim. It is never going to happen. Not to mention her record of 7 years of Senior competition not missing a single podium, quite possibly 2 Olympic Golds and 6 World medals and 3 Grand Prix final titles and so on.

I do like that group and I look forward to their taking over as the ones on top following the retirements of the vets after 2010, but Kim possibly deciding on coming back would be strictly on her own level of skating, and whether she could still skate at or close to her former level given age, injuries, time away, etc...

Again, ice is slippery. Gracie Gold and Zijun Li have made huge strides in just one senior season, Kaetlyn Osmond came out of nowhere at 2012 SC, and the young Russians have proven themselves to be medal challengers on the international stage. I'm optimistic about their futures, and even if Yuna isn't around for comparison by then, I'd expect them to equal her technical ability and come within the lower range of her PCS (like Carolina Kostner now).

Never say never.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Whatever, we will have to agree to disagree. I like all those skaters you mentioned and am looking forward to the post Sochi ladies era, and think all 5 of those skaters will be future World medalists, some future World Champions. However a skater of Yu Na Kims level of COP skating, point getting, consistency, dominance, and achievement, none of them will be that. That skater wont come around for awhile, just like another Michelle Kwan in the U.S wont come around for a very long time in the U.S although I am sure the USFSA will try their hardest to make Gold the next Michelle Kwan. I could actually see Gold matching Kwans feat of 9 straight U.S titles starting next year, matching her international resume will be alot harder though.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Whatever, we will have to agree to disagree. I like all those skaters you mentioned and am looking forward to the post Sochi ladies era, and think all 5 of those skaters will be future World medalists, some future World Champions. However a skater of Yu Na Kims level of COP skating, point getting, consistency, dominance, and achievement, none of them will be that. That skater wont come around for awhile, just like another Michelle Kwan in the U.S wont come around for a very long time in the U.S although I am sure the USFSA will try their hardest to make Gold the next Michelle Kwan. I could actually see Gold matching Kwans feat of 9 straight U.S titles starting next year, matching her international resume will be alot harder though.
No way will Gracie ever come close to Michelle's 9 straight U.S titles. Besides the fact that Kwan won her first title at only 15 while Gracie will already be 18 next season i don't Gracie sticking around that long plus i can't see anyone dominating like Michelle did.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
You have to remember that Kwan skated at her first Senior Worlds in 1994, at the age of 13. She was 8th that year, and 4th the next, and finally won her first World Championship in 1996, at 15.

Today, skaters have to be 15 to skate at Worlds, so no one can match Kwan's record.

The only skater today who has been around as long as Michelle was, is Carolina Kostner, who had her ups and downs and injuries along the way.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
It's always gut instinct to assume Gold and Wagner on the team...but ANYTHING CAN AND WILL HAPPEN in skating. Injury, illness or just an outright slump can hit just about anyone, including those two.

BUT - as it's impossible to predict what will happen next season, FOR NOW we can go ahead and assume Wagner and Gold on the team and guess at who will be #3. I think it will be between Zawadzki, Gao and Hicks (depends on whose nerves hold up). If all three hit I think it will be Zawadzki.

Nagasu? Unfortunately she had her chance to really make her mark this season and now slipped even further back. I think she will have to have a Czisny 2010-like renaissance to have a shot. Plus, she's already been to the Olympics so I'd rather one of the three above get the spot. But it would be a great comeback story if she made her 2nd Oly team.

Czisny? What do we do with her? Anyway, it seems the entire world is working against her at this point. Back to back injuries, coming off 22nd at worlds and the one year she's finally off the team, the 3rd spot materializes once again. Between us, I don't she deserves it at all. She's been given chance after chance after chance and blows it virtually every time. She had a shot at the team in 2006 and an even better one in 2010 but bombed BOTH times. Nothing tells me she'll hold it together this time and even if she does, her competition is much stiffer now than it was 4 years ago...

Zhang? Basically you can just stick a fork in her. Don't see it happening. Even with another hearty comeback I don't see her higher than 4th or 5th. The Olympic team is out of reach for her at this point, I'm afraid.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
You have to remember that Kwan skated at her first Senior Worlds in 1994, at the age of 13. She was 8th that year, and 4th the next, and finally won her first World Championship in 1996, at 15.

Today, skaters have to be 15 to skate at Worlds, so no one can match Kwan's record.

The only skater today who has been around as long as Michelle was, is Carolina Kostner, who had her ups and downs and injuries along the way.

Kim with her 2nd Olympic Gold would have a superior overall record to Michelle Kwan IMO. Whether or not she is the better skater is another debate of course.

I am not sure if we will see a U.S lady that compares to Michelle Kwan for a very long time, especialy with the force of womens skating heading to Asia now. I am also not sure when or if we will see the U.S be the country to beat in ladies skating again, like it was for so many decades.
 

b-man

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
BUT - as it's impossible to predict what will happen next season, FOR NOW we can go ahead and assume Wagner and Gold on the team and guess at who will be #3. I think it will be between Zawadzki, Gao and Hicks (depends on whose nerves hold up). If all three hit I think it will be Zawadzki.

Nagasu? Unfortunately she had her chance to really make her mark this season and now slipped even further back. I think she will have to have a Czisny 2010-like renaissance to have a shot. Plus, she's already been to the Olympics so I'd rather one of the three above get the spot. But it would be a great comeback story if she made her 2nd Oly team.

Czisny? What do we do with her? Anyway, it seems the entire world is working against her at this point. Back to back injuries, coming off 22nd at worlds and the one year she's finally off the team, the 3rd spot materializes once again. Between us, I don't she deserves it at all. She's been given chance after chance after chance and blows it virtually every time. She had a shot at the team in 2006 and an even better one in 2010 but bombed BOTH times. Nothing tells me she'll hold it together this time and even if she does, her competition is much stiffer now than it was 4 years ago...

Zhang? Basically you can just stick a fork in her. Don't see it happening. Even with another hearty comeback I don't see her higher than 4th or 5th. The Olympic team is out of reach for her at this point, I'm afraid.

I just don't get the love for Zawadzki. You say Nagasu, Czisny and Zhang have had their chances, which is true, but all have sometime in their career done something with their chances. Zawadzki has also had chances in the last three years. Six grand prix and only a bronze to show for it. Two 4 conetinents the last two years, and has a sixth and eighth, behind Zhang who medaled last year and Gao this year. She finished behind Gao and Nagasu in the GP this year. Her all time international personal best is 166, which is behind Gao by 10 points and much more behind Nagasu, Gold, and Czisny. It is even behind Hannah Miller. The only place she ever does well is with sympathetic nationals judges.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I just don't get the love for Zawadzki.

For some reason she gets big scores in the SP at Nationals which automatically puts her among the top 3 or 4...not too sure why, since she barely cracks 60 internationally AT BEST. This makes her one of the prime contenders (and one can argue - perhaps even the favorite) for the 3rd spot...whether or not she "deserves" to be in such a position, YMMV.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Kim with her 2nd Olympic Gold would have a superior overall record to Michelle Kwan IMO. Whether or not she is the better skater is another debate of course.

I am not sure if we will see a U.S lady that compares to Michelle Kwan for a very long time, especialy with the force of womens skating heading to Asia now. I am also not sure when or if we will see the U.S be the country to beat in ladies skating again, like it was for so many decades.

After Sochi Kim Mao and Suzuki and most likely Ando will retire. The other skaters like Murakami are beatable and can be beat. I don't see another dynamo coming out of Japan at the moment and there hasn't been anyone that's come out of SK since Yuna. China does have some skaters like Li Zijun but she doesn't seem to be as good as Yuna and Mao were at the same age so the US has a good chance of beating the Asian skaters after 2014.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Kim with her 2nd Olympic Gold would have a superior overall record to Michelle Kwan IMO. Whether or not she is the better skater is another debate of course.

I am not sure if we will see a U.S lady that compares to Michelle Kwan for a very long time, especialy with the force of womens skating heading to Asia now. I am also not sure when or if we will see the U.S be the country to beat in ladies skating again, like it was for so many decades.

Kwan competed for 12 seasons, skating everything and anything from the time she was 13 until she was 21, including the Grand Prix, Worlds, and every pro-am and cheesefest. It was only from the fall of 2002 on that she stopped doing the GP circuit, because of her developing hip problem. But she still competed at Nationals and Worlds every year until 2006, when she was in such pain that she was unable to continue.

Kim started competing at in the 2004 JGP. She competed in the 2005 JGP, then moved up to the GP in 2006 and competed through 2010 Worlds, then skipped the 2010 GPF, but skated at 2011 Worlds. She then was absent from competition until an International B in early 2013 and 2013 Worlds. So she did not have the continuity that Kwan did.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Kwan competed for 12 seasons, skating everything and anything from the time she was 13 until she was 21, including the Grand Prix, Worlds, and every pro-am and cheesefest. It was only from the fall of 2002 on that she stopped doing the GP circuit, because of her developing hip problem. But she still competed at Nationals and Worlds every year until 2006, when she was in such pain that she was unable to continue.

Kim started competing at in the 2004 JGP. She competed in the 2005 JGP, then moved up to the GP in 2006 and competed through 2010 Worlds, then skipped the 2010 GPF, but skated at 2011 Worlds. She then was absent from competition until an International B in early 2013 and 2013 Worlds. So she did not have the continuity that Kwan did.
Yes, but Yu-Na has a 4CC title that Michelle doesn't have (simply because she didn't compete there) and the OGM, Yu-Na, however, has "just" two World title, when michelle has five: for me, at the moments, they're virtually tied; but, if Yu-Na wins a second OGM, her record will definitely be superior to Michelle, and it won't be a matter of opinions, just the evidence of the numbers... However, this doesn't tell anything about who's the best skater, obviously!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Yes, but Yu-Na has a 4CC title that Michelle doesn't have (simply because she didn't compete there) and the OGM, Yu-Na, however, has "just" two World title, when michelle has five: for me, at the moments, they're virtually tied; but, if Yu-Na wins a second OGM, her record will definitely be superior to Michelle, and it won't be a matter of opinions, just the evidence of the numbers... However, this doesn't tell anything about who's the best skater, obviously!

Indeed. I agree with you and Pangtongfan. Past a certain point, it's hard to rank skaters in degrees of excellence, and I kind of don't enjoy doing that anyway. The "immortal" skaters each give an individual kind of thrill when they skate, and they're too few and far between for me to want to push one down below another—and emphatically both Michelle and YuNa are among the immortals. Plushenko has multiple Olympic medals, and Browning has none. Does that really say anything about their rankings? They're both in the skating stratosphere. Katarina Witt has two Olympic golds and Michelle has only a silver and a bronze. Does that mean that Witt is a better skater than Michelle? If YuNa wins a second OGM, it will be marvelous, and I'll certainly rejoice (though I'm also rooting for Mao), but I can't compare her to Kwan.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Incidentally, that was after she won her first title...she was unable to defend...something which Wagner managed to accomplish this year (!)

By the skin of her teeth, yes, but still...wow
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, but Yu-Na has a 4CC title that Michelle doesn't have (simply because she didn't compete there) and the OGM, Yu-Na, however, has "just" two World title, when michelle has five: for me, at the moments, they're virtually tied; but, if Yu-Na wins a second OGM, her record will definitely be superior to Michelle, and it won't be a matter of opinions, just the evidence of the numbers... However, this doesn't tell anything about who's the best skater, obviously!

True. Katarina Witt has a better competitive record than Michelle: 2 OGM, 4 Worlds; 6 Europeans.
 
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