Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title? | Page 15 | Golden Skate

Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
It's impressive how many 6.0s Plushenko had... but let's not forget that several of those were from Russian Nationals (I mean it's not like he's ever been overscored at Russian Nationals, right?), and the majority of the rest were from international competitions that weren't against Yagudin, and many were from the years after 2002 where the judging panel had 11-14 judges, so greater chances to earn 6.0.

And unlike Yagudin, he never scored 6.0s at the only Olympics that the two faced off against. If you're comparing age, well, Evgeni was the reigning World Champion so it's not like he hadn't reached his peak as Yagudin had. That was really the one competition that decided the whole "who's better" thing, and Plushenko didn't even come close to beating Yagudin in either of the two segments. Yeah, he had a big mistake in the SP, but he also lost the FS too by a considerable margin... I mean look at the scores http://www.icecalc.com/events/owg2002/results/SEG002.HTM

Regardless, I don't think people measure Yagudin's prowess based on the number of 6.0's the judges gave him rather than the quality of skating and artistry - and not just great jumping - that he brought to the ice. I'd say Plushenko's certainly the better jumper of the two, but in terms of all-round skater, Yagudin definitely gets the nod from me. To me, his 2002 Olympic FS is the best in the past 20 years.

PLEASE watch Plushenko 2011-2013 and compare to Yagudin 2002 or better to Yagudin today:laugh:
Plushenko surpass him long time ago, but his fans still live in 2002. :confused:
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
PLEASE watch Plushenko 2011-2013 and compare to Yagudin 2002 or better to Yagudin today:laugh:
Plushenko surpass him long time ago, but his fans still live in 2002. :confused:

You are dreaming. Yagudin had not even hit his peak in 2002.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
PLEASE watch Plushenko 2011-2013 and compare to Yagudin 2002 or better to Yagudin today:laugh:
Plushenko surpass him long time ago, but his fans still live in 2002. :confused:

Plushenko 2013 isn't probably the best example seeing as how the only skating this year 2013 that we've seen from Plushenko is him injured with no quad and two major SP errors at Europeans.

The point wasn't whether Yagudin in 2002 is as good as Plushenko 2011-2013, it was at the most critical competition between the two of them, Plushenko lost. And lost definitively.

To say compare him to Yagudin today is as ridiculous as saying 4 years from now "Compare Fernandez/Hanyu to Plushenko 2014, or better yet compare them to a retired Plushenko today" - are you also going to compare Plushenko to a retired Stojko or Lambiel. :rolleye: How about we compare Plushenko to a retired Buttle, who still beat "Plushenko 2011-2013" in their last head-to-head just last year? :biggrin:
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
I'm saying if not for his injury that ended his career Yagudin would have continued to get better. He was only 21 when he won in SLC IN 2002.

Well, if we are to argue like that... Then, if not for Plushy's injury/ies, he would have won this year's Worlds easy-peasy; and he will win Sochi Olympics like a piece of cake. Or will have had. You know. Because if we are to totally diregard actual reality... Well, then, what the heck! Let's go all out!
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
What????? You're not worshiping King Yagudin??? :bow: Plushyubers will defeat us, they are more effective, better organized and 100% devoted to Plushy !:p

To compete who are ...errr... more... devoted fans? No, thanks!:laugh:

Like Stroll and Moonight Sonata is one and the same type. :laugh:

He is good at The Stroll which was quite similar to his style in Blues For Klook. But his Moonlight Sonata was irritating.

Same as plushyfan defends Plushenko

Go ahead. But don't expect yourside would always have the last say.;)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Now the thread is not about plushenko winning in Sochi in 2014 but plushenko beating yagudin in washington dc in 2003 because yagudin was only getting better. So my theory on how plushenko beats yagudin in 2003 or 2004 and Torino or whatever is that in 2004 or 2005 there is a shocking defection and plushenko leaves mishin and he goes to America and becomes Lori Nichols project!!
 

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Now the thread is not about plushenko winning in Sochi in 2014 but plushenko beating yagudin in washington dc in 2003 because yagudin was only getting better. So my theory on how plushenko beats yagudin in 2003 or 2004 and Torino or whatever is that in 2004 or 2005 there is a shocking defection and plushenko leaves mishin and he goes to America and becomes Lori Nichols project!!

:popcorn:

But defection is not possible since plushenko is too loyal to Mishin. :scratch: We need a new script.
 

plushyfan

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Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I'm saying if not for his injury that ended his career Yagudin would have continued to get better. He was only 21 when he won in SLC IN 2002.
He was 21 in februar, but he turned 22 in march. I don't think Yag would have continued gettbetter. He was afraid of Plushy at that time, he needed a sportpsychologist, this is fact. Yes, he won in 2002, but he lost to the KID Plushy not once.
Look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB2PDzouzSY the Russian experts's, journalist's, skaters's opinion: Plushenko should have won that competition....
 

plushyfan

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Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
To compete who are ...errr... more... devoted fans? No, thanks!:laugh:

Why? I'm not a screaming teenager fangirl, so I perfectly know, why I became Plushy's fan. ;) He isn't only a good skater-I started to love him because of his skating, but after he attracted me as a person. He is interesting, and great man. And being of his fan is so entertaining, and surprising! :) I always surprised, there are still those people who like him even more than I do .. :laugh:
In this forum the people express their opinion, -what are stereotyps- based on very little information and inaccurate about Plushy.. That's what I react. For example, I do not think, anybody knew that Plushy has approx 70 6.0s presentations marks., but Yag's has only 3.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
...but Yag's has only 3.

Alexei got five 6.0s for presentation and six overall for his short program at 2002 Worlds.

http://www.icecalc.com/events/wc2002/results/SEG063.HTM

He got two more in the LP. He got four for his LP at the Olympics. I don't know how many he has overall, but we also have to take into account the fact that 6.0s were hard to come by back then. In the last couple of years of 6.0 scoring the judges were a lot more generous, especially at national championships. (The reason I know this is that back in the day Yagudin fans used to tease Michelle Kwan fans because Yagudin had more 6.0s in international competitions than Michelle. ;) )

Edited to add: By the way (I know everyone on this Plushenko thread wants to know this ;) ), Michelle got a total of 57 6.0s. 42 of them came at U.S. Nationals. She even picked up a couple at 2005 Nationals (not a great performance). This was the last competition ever held under ordinal scoring in the U.S., so the judges figured that this was their last chance to unload all those 6.0s that they still had hidden under their hats. :)
 
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plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Alexei got five 6.0s for presentation and six overall for his short program at 2002 Worlds.

http://www.icecalc.com/events/wc2002/results/SEG063.HTM

He got two more in the LP. He got four for his LP at the Olympics. I don't know how many he has overall, but we also have to take into account the fact that 6.0s were hard to come by back then. In the last couple of years of 6.0 scoring the judges were a lot more generous, especially at national championships. (The reason I know this is that back in the day Yagudin fans used to tease Michelle Kwan fans because Yagudin had more 6.0s in international competitions than Michelle. ;) )

Thanks Mathman. I din't know how many he has overall. But I wrote that, and no one objected, not even CSG, so I thought that data is right. :) OK. Yag has 10 now. I'm waiting for the others. But you know, I didn't want to demonstrate that who is more artistic, because it is very subjective. I just wanted to disprove that Plushy only a jumper, and he isn't artistry.
I think under the old system 5,7-5,8 were for artistic impression..+ 0,2 and 0,3 points for perfect jumps= 6.0 So CSG is weird with his explanation.:confused:
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
The point wasn't whether Yagudin in 2002 is as good as Plushenko 2011-2013, it was at the most critical competition between the two of them, Plushenko lost. And lost definitively.
:laugh: The point is the most critical competition between them never happened. Yag was older and therefore artistically more matured than Plu who was still teen-ish in that department, while already considerably overpassing Yag technically who chose to pay safer (due to being brainwashed). The real competition for a warrior and a Man is a Man to a Man, not a Man to a Teen. That competiton was supposed to take place a season or two later when Plu biologically wouldn't be so teen-ish anymore. I was really looking for that battle but unfortunately due to Yag's injury it never happened, which became one more reason of Yag's and his fans' whining- they felt too bitter by the fact that he could win over a Teen Plu only but not a Man Plu.
To say compare him to Yagudin today is as ridiculous as saying 4 years from now "Compare Fernandez/Hanyu to Plushenko 2014, or better yet compare them to a retired Plushenko today"
Finally you succedded in finding the right word for your rants- ridiculous. So, comparing Plu of 2003 with the modern field is not ridiculous. But comparing today's Yag with Plu is. Chan ubers' hypocrisy is so plain and not innovative at all. :disapp:
He is good at The Stroll which was quite similar to his style in Blues For Klook. But his Moonlight Sonata was irritating.
:yay: Yay! Rock and Blues are the same and MS is irritating. Saying the nonsese like that means only one thing possible- you are desperate. Carry on. :popcorn:
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
He was 21 in februar, but he turned 22 in march. I don't think Yag would have continued gettbetter.

I don't need to have imagination on whether or not he would get better after 2002 Olympics. His following season's SP was a proof. It was so technically difficult, yet it was so entertaining! Dick Button has gushed Yagudin's abilities in that program. So it has proved that he'd have gotten better and better.

I totally agree that none of the sides would have the last say:laugh: Since we are talking about personal opinions. No one is better or supreme than the other.

No dispute on this one. So I guess everyone knows why Yagudin won't go away then.

Continue your good work, Plushyfan and the co. !;)
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I was scanning through the chatter and some of it does not make sense at all to me but I don't have a lot of time to read in detail. I thought this was about Sochi and Plushy's chances of winning? I think he can win or medal but a lot has to do on his health and how well the complete skaters skate - the Japanese men, Patrick, Dai, Hanyu, Javier and the Americans who qualify. If they skate clean they will win (maybe not the Americans). They must have a quad though of course. I don't think we will see a clean triple program win - everyone would have to splat horribly for that too happen.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
I was scanning through the chatter and some of it does not make sense at all to me but I don't have a lot of time to read in detail. I thought this was about Sochi and Plushy's chances of winning? I think he can win or medal but a lot has to do on his health and how well the complete skaters skate - the Japanese men, Patrick, Dai, Hanyu, Javier and the Americans who qualify. If they skate clean they will win (maybe not the Americans). They must have a quad though of course. I don't think we will see a clean triple program win - everyone would have to splat horribly for that too happen.

I believe that Yagudin vs. Plushenko topic has turned in full force from the long post #219 with comprehensive videos in responding to post #214 where CDG used, "(though not as good as Yagudin's)".:laugh::laugh::laugh: It appeared to me that Plushy ubers are so afraid of the mentioning of Yagudin's name, and rush to discredit him wherever it appears in relation to Plushenko.:laugh:

Isn't that entertaining?!:popcorn:
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Yay! Rock and Blues are the same and MS is irritating. Saying the nonsese like that means only one thing possible- you are desperate. Carry on. :popcorn:

Wait a minute! Are we talking about Takahashi's skating or are we talking about the music he skated to? Now isn't it clear who is desperate?:laugh:
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Plushenko of 2002 would have beaten Plush of 2006, Plush of 2010, Lysacek of 2010 and probably anyone in Sochi, so there is no point in speculations mentioning what if Plush, Yags or whoever wasnt injured.
 
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