Chan thinks it's time figure skaters got unionized

Patrick is also wrong in believing that if they had had a union they wouldn't have to do events like the World Team Trophy. All sports have all-star games and various public appearance things that the top players are contractually required to participate in. In any sport the world champion is expected to represent the sport to the public, inconvenient though that might be sometimes.

Moment said:

Thanks for reply. I don't think it will have that much impact, though.

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I wouldn't be surprised if some judges subconsciously punish Chan by way of lower GOE and PCS scores - not that they'd admit to it or anything. Besides, as much as I admire his skating, if I was a judge, I'd knock him down a few pegs for his hotheaded comments.

I don't know how practical the idea of a skater's union is, and I may not agree with the manner in which Chan argues his points, but frankly I completely back his opinions.

Skaters should have every right and choice not to compete in events they don't want to without being sanctioned against participating in other shows. The concept of WTT is cute, but campy. It is not a serious event and no elite skater should be forced to put out their serious competition moves, especially after a long, intense season. Of course they have the choice to water down their performance, but that does come at a reputation price, and reputation does matter in this sport.

Injury risks are especially heightened for singles male figure skaters, whatwith their quads/triple axels in this neo-modern age.

The implications extend to the newly upcoming team event in the Olympics which others were discussing in another thread.

WORLD TEAM TROPHY in Figure Skating 2013 A N N O U N C E M E N T

3.2 Consequences of non-participation
It is of the highest importance that Rule 136 paragraph 6 of the ISU General Regulations be respected and implemented by all ISU Members and Skaters.
To be in compliance with Rule 136, paragraph 6, the following directive is issued by the ISU Council. Any Skater/Couple from a Qualified ISU Member, who placed within the first ten (10) places at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013 and is ranked in the ISU World Standings among the best 2 Lady Single Skaters, best 2 Men Single Skaters, the best Pair Skating couple and the best Ice Dance couple of his/her/their respective Qualified ISU Member, if this Skater/Couple elects in advance of the ISU World Team Trophy not to participate in the ISU World Team Trophy (for whatever reason), he/she/they will not be permitted to participate in any other competitions, shows, and exhibitions from Monday noon (March 18, 2013) after the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013, during the ISU World Team Trophy, and until April 15, 2013.
In addition, depending on the circumstances, the concerned Skater/Couple and Members may be subject to sanctions in accordance with Rule 136, paragraph 6 of the General Regulations.

And...this is Rule 136 paragraph 6 of the ISU General Regulations

Members with Skaters who place within the first ten places at any ISU Championships and who continue in the following season to participate in Skating competitions and/or exhibitions as eligible Skaters, shall have the obligation, when entering or authorizing the participation of such Skaters in Skating competitions and/or exhibitions, to give first priority to participation of such Skaters in those ISU Events which are the subject of ISU television and commercial contracts as notified to Members. Members who fail to comply with the above obligation, and Skaters who refuse to participate in such ISU Events, without medical or other justified reasons, shall be subject to sanctions under the relevant Rules.



Yes, of course, This is ridiculous rule.

But How Naive he is!!

He will be eaten alive by Cinquanta.

Chan can refuse to skate in the GP without giving a reason, if he wants to be a test case (of course he will be unable to make any money from skating for the entire GP season).

It is not in challenging the ISU rules that Chan went wrong. It is in showing lack of sympathy for Menshov, lack of respect for Rogozine, lack of concern about the fans that support figure skating with their interest and money, and in general, "How does it effect ME ME ME ME ME."

Patrick's problem is that he thinks that, as a stellar athlete in a demanding sport, he ought to be rich and famous like hockey players, baseball players, golfers, race car drivers, or at least Yu-na Kim. The fact that he is not -- well, there has to be be someone to blame.

Mathman said:

It is not in challenging the ISU rules that Chan went wrong. It is in showing lack of sympathy for Menshov, lack of respect for Rogozine, lack of concern about the fans that support figure skating with their interest and money, and in general, "How does it effect ME ME ME ME ME."

Patrick's problem is that he thinks that, as a stellar athlete in a demanding sport, he ought to be rich and famous like hockey players, baseball players, golfers, race car drivers, or at least Yu-na Kim. The fact that he is not -- well, there has to be be someone to blame.

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The first part of your statement I totally agree with. I think he usually has the right intent but it often comes out as self-entitled and arrogant. He's really not known for his diplomacy or sensitivity, and really he should check himself more before opening his mouth. That being said, I'm glad that he is in such a position to question the ISU and create greater accountability though, and given his questionable win at Worlds I would expect him to be the last person to make such bold statements against the ISU. I don't expect the judges to retaliate because of who he is, and arguably he's the one in the position to bell the cat but still get away, so to speak.

The second statement is baseless, sorry. I'm pretty sure he isn't expecting the same level of fame, let alone fortune, as pro athletes in major sports, and isn't expecting to be a Yu Na Kim or a Sidney Crosby.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

The second statement is baseless, sorry. I'm pretty sure he isn't expecting the same level of fame, let alone fortune, as pro athletes in major sports, and isn't expecting to be a Yu Na Kim or a Sidney Crosby.

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Canadian figure skating star Patrick Chan says he feels unappreciated in his home country and is becoming increasingly drawn to his Chinese heritage.

In a phone interview with Reuters prior to the Grand Prix Final in Quebec City, the world champion said the Chinese government is proud of its figure skaters, while the sport is overshadowed by hockey's popularity in Canada.

"Sometimes I feel we are not appreciated for how much work we put in," Chan said. "If my parents hadn't emigrated from China and say I had skated for China, things would have been very different. My parents wouldn't have had to make as much sacrifices as they have and there would be a lot more respect for what we do as figure skaters."

Chan said he has started to feel more Chinese because of the support he gets from the Chinese community in Canada. He said he would have liked to represent both China and Canada in competition.

"That would be the ideal situation ... in a perfect world," he said.

Skate Canada did not immediately respond to an email from The Canadian Press seeking comment.

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In a later article Chan explains that he meant that he wishes skating were as popular as it was in the 90s and that he got the same appreciation/fame that skaters like Kurt Browning did.

pointyourtoe said:

I think Mathman was on point. Patrick came out and said something to that effect a few years ago.

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I'm curious to see what the actual quote was. I know Patrick's said some weird and tasteless stuff, but I don't think he could be so deluded to think that a figure skater in Canada would have the same fame and income as other pro athletes in major sports. People barely batted an eyelid when Virtue/Moir won gold and Rochette's bronze would have likely gone unnoticed were it not for the tragic story that went with it. It's simply not popular enough.

Mathman said:

It is not in challenging the ISU rules that Chan went wrong. It is in showing lack of sympathy for Menshov, lack of respect for Rogozine, lack of concern about the fans that support figure skating with their interest and money, and in general, "How does it effect ME ME ME ME ME."

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Not so fast, Mathman!

We do not have access to (and presumably never will have access to) a complete transcript of everything that Chan said to DiManno.
It is entirely possible that Chan absolutely bent over backwards to express sympathy for Menshov; to say that Canada is lucky to have Rogozine (although objectively, it is true that he is not in the same league as Chan); and to emphasize his love and appreciation for fans.

Because we do not know what DiManno left on the cutting-room floor (so to speak), I do not think it is fair to accuse Chan of self-absorption.

Assuming that the selective quotes that DiManno chose to include are accurate, I can see that Chan made comments that will raise some eyebrows for other reasons.

BTW, absence from WTT does not automatically preclude skating in CSOI. Virtue/Moir belong to the CSOI cast, which performed its first show on Fri, Apr 19.

The ISU language is:

I guess that in her third paragraph, DiManno is extrapolating that the ISU would have made a point of imposing additional sanctions in Chan's particular case if he had not taken part in WTT.
Not clear whether that is speculation by her and/or by Chan, or whether the ISU explicitly warned Chan in advance that they would take special measures to punish him.

Also BTW, I recall that in another thread, some members of GS assumed that Chan did not train for WTT and criticized him based on that assumption.
But DiManno's story says:

Amateur Athlete union? I don't think so!!! But then the isu blurred the lines with big cash prizes for wins and medaling. And NCAA aren't paid but many totally free education. So the participation in the wtt is almost mandatory but has a total split personality. A real competition everyone treats like a world pro thing! A thing professionals would do for tv and entertainment!

The menshov thing is just a mixture of the author and chan but is really not good!

pointyourtoe said:

In a later article Chan explains that he meant that he wishes skating were as popular as it was in the 90s and that he got the same appreciation/fame that skaters like Kurt Browning did.

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I think asking for similar recognition to Kurt Browning is a tall order, but not the same as asking for recognition and income of pro hockey/baseball/golf players.

I think as a whole he wants skating in Canada to be more recognized, but that obviously comes off the wrong way when you phrase it as you wish people would be more aware of your own achievements. He's not exactly a household name the way Stojko and Browning were and part of that is due to general interest in the sport waning. And the reality is that if he were in China - a country that values sporting achievements far more than Canada - and were a 3-time World Champion, he would be a much bigger deal there than here. People in Canada know of Kurt Browning/Elvis Stojko but due to the popularity of a ton of other sports the average Canadian never had them top-of-mind, no matter how good they were. So, I never really understood why he was complaining that he wasn't given the same appreciation when Canadian interest in skating has gone down since the 90's. I mean, it's not like he hasn't been recognized... he won the Lou Marsh award for best Canadian athlete, so at least amongst the sporting community people know who he is. He does have a point though about the prominence of top Canadian skaters... it shouldn't take a judging scandal or a personal tragedy for people to know who Sale/Pelletier or Joannie Rochette were.

Of course, he could pretty much mitigate this whole I'm-not-famous-enough lamenting by skating well and becoming the first Canadian man to win gold, in Sochi.

Part of me understands how he thinks of/values this World Team Trophy in his mind, because many skaters would feel the same way more or less. However, on behalf of all participating skaters, their coaches, refrees, tech speciallists, judges and other ISU offiicials/members, all the volunteers and audience, I would have appreicated if he could have showed more sympathy when referring to Menshov's injury and picked up another words to express his feelings other than calling it 'a stupid competition'...Scott last year and now this. As much as I love their skating and there is no denying they are among the greatest skaters, but what they say sometimes break my heart, take away joy and my love for skating... I normally avoid myself from leaving a comment in the thread/topic like this one, but I just couldn't help it, right after I had such wonderful time at the said competition. Sorry.

Chan should just really shut his mouth
everytime he opens his mouth he makes himself look like a fool and arrogant

its enough he was fraudulent winner already

Omg!

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

I think asking for similar recognition to Kurt Browning is a tall order, but not the same as asking for recognition and income of pro hockey/baseball/golf players.

I think as a whole he wants skating in Canada to be more recognized, but that obviously comes off the wrong way when you phrase it as you wish people would be more aware of your own achievements. He's not exactly a household name the way Stojko and Browning were and part of that is due to general interest in the sport waning. And the reality is that if he were in China - a country that values sporting achievements far more than Canada - and were a 3-time World Champion, he would be a much bigger deal there than here. People in Canada know of Kurt Browning/Elvis Stojko but due to the popularity of a ton of other sports the average Canadian never had them top-of-mind, no matter how good they were. So, I never really understood why he was complaining that he wasn't given the same appreciation when Canadian interest in skating has gone down since the 90's. I mean, it's not like he hasn't been recognized... he won the Lou Marsh award for best Canadian athlete, so at least amongst the sporting community people know who he is. He does have a point though about the prominence of top Canadian skaters... it shouldn't take a judging scandal or a personal tragedy for people to know who Sale/Pelletier or Joannie Rochette were.

Of course, he could pretty much mitigate this whole I'm-not-famous-enough lamenting by skating well and becoming the first Canadian man to win gold, in Sochi.

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But I'm not sure ice skaters are that popular in China, are they? Although I do think think in China skating is more popular now than it was in the 90's...Lu Chen was quite under-appreciated there (from what I've read) despite being a World Champion and 2-time Olympic medalist.

Unbelievable.... Although it of course is good for a skater to have opinions and suggestions, the way thoughts are expressed is important. Chan´s way makes him look a selfish brat, in my opinion.

I agree with deedee1. Participating in the World Team competition with a cheerful heart is a way of saying thank you to the fans that have supported skating all year.

He was certainly lacking in the tact department, but IMO, he's right. The ISU has done a horrible job of promoting the sport and the skaters over many, many years. The skaters have so little say (e.g. I'm confident in saying that present and former skaters were not in favor of scrapping the 6.0 system) and benefit so little for all their hard work. You compare it to a sport like tennis. The 50th-ranked tennis pro in the world is making a solid-to-great living despite not being a champion while the 50th best skater basically gets nothing and finds it hard ot impossible to continue in the sport. The skaters should do what the ATP (Association of Tennis Professionals) did back in the early 90's: break away from the governing body (ITF in tennis, ISU in skating) and start a legitimate pro tour of their own. Where the stars go, the fans will ultimately follow.

golden411 said:

Not so fast, Mathman!

We do not have access to (and presumably never will have access to) a complete transcript of everything that Chan said to DiManno.
It is entirely possible that Chan absolutely bent over backwards to express sympathy for Menshov; to say that Canada is lucky to have Rogozine (although objectively, it is true that he is not in the same league as Chan); and to emphasize his love and appreciation for fans.

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That's true. But that means that this journalist hates Patrick so much that she will leave no stone unturned in making him look like a jerk.

tommyk75 said:

The skaters should do what the ATP (Association of Tennis Professionals) did back in the early 90's: break away from the governing body (ITF in tennis, ISU in skating) and start a legitimate pro tour of their own. Where the stars go, the fans will ultimately follow.

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That would be very cool. What prevents that from happening, though, is the Olympics. As long as the skaters themselves consider skating to be nothing more than "an Olympic sport," they place themselves under the thumb of the officially sanctioned Olympic body.