Chan thinks it's time figure skaters got unionized

Reginald said:

Eh, I don't think so. The last thing we need is for skaters to go on strike, and we lose skating for one whole year.

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Yes it should be all about 'us', the 'skating fans' - majority are probably just free loaders who enjoy the odd gossip and nitpicking about skating and the skaters now and then on youtube or TV.

'It' should NEVER be about the 'skaters' who pays for their own training; put in the crazy hours /blood / sweat / tears. They should have NO rights except do as they are told and be grateful for it. They shouldn't be allowed to contemplate, complain, continued to be underpaid, treated lesser than an unpaid employee of the ISU/Federation with all the strict rules and punishment that usually comes with such employment conditions and none of the perks. They are not allowed to voice any dissatisfaction for the fear it may make them unpopular, lose fans, or affect their future scores?!

Geez, what a healthy environment the skating world has become? Why would anyone bother with this sport, and taking it beyond taking it as mere hobbies must crazy! I did think of sending my future kids to skating camp, but for sure I wouldn't let them taking it anymore beyond even if they turn out to be incredibly talented. Otherwise they may ends up as bitter, miserable like Patrick Chan but some how need to swallow their pride, learn to smile and stay silent and continue to be a good slave to ISU and 'us' the 'know it alls'.

The current economic conditions is not feasible to sustain the sport, if quality and winning satisfaction are still the main objective. The real world doesn't function that way, if there are risks, there must be rewards. There need to be balance.

I may not like Patrick's demeanor, his lack of tact, or his apparent SEVERE 'political correctness disability' and 'foot in mouth' disease. I am not even his biggest fan, but to me he could be the most arrogant jerk in the world, but still it shouldn't affect his future outings or how he should be marked (punished).

What goes on the ice should be sacred. It should be judged according to what the skater did on the day and not some personality or popularity contest. Some sob story, some excuses, some political or nationalistic message. In reality this may not always be the case, but that is why the sport loses its reputation, its credibility, and some judges (unpaid) felt they can exercise/abuse their privileges to make their mark. It ends up not being about the sport at all. It makes it a pageant. If it is a proper sport, then theoretically all these things shouldn't matter. Patrick can be the biggest idiot/jerk off ice, but on ice, what he does should be all that it matters.

The problem with Patrick Chan is he really need more life experience, more maturity and think beyond his little bubble and learn to control his emotions. I don't think there is some miraculous cure or something he will ever grow out of. I do however think with someone who consistently proved to have such a massive handicap, it might be good to analyse what he is trying to say, less on how he said it. The truth is he might have word it better, but I am sure people will nitpick on him some more given he seems to have this incredibly massive red target on his back these days for countless big whinge.

I find this article and its title so unabashedly and obviously inflammatory. It may just be the style of The Star. If Patrick did respond to a question about his stance on unionization, his one statement is NOT a mantra and does not make him a Norma Rae.

However his statements were phrased or edited, he did speak the truth. Top skaters, such as V/M and D/W, who could stay out of WTT, did. It is completely understandable that such an event right before the Olympic season, after the World Championships, would be undesired by those with high stakes at the Olympics. It is also true there was no one of equal value to replace him at this event. Two Men were required in a team, and the Canadian team had no one else close to him or Kevin to take part. He was obligated to go and trained hard for it but mentally it was probably very hard under all the circumstances.

Patrick is very brave to speak out. He is bearing the brunt from all sides and taking all the risk alone but who else would or is speaking for the skaters?

I have no source information just hearsay from reading the skating forums, why are you so defensive, I was just asking a question about the Group Numbers.

Team USA came in second last year and skated a Group Number. Team Canada came in second this year and no Group Number. If it was offered to
2nd Place Team USA last season why not to 2nd Place Team Canada this year?

Team Japan skated a group number at the opening of the competition this season which they did not do last year, and another one at the Gala.

demarinis5 said:

I have no source information just hearsay from reading the skating forums, why are you so defensive, I was just asking a question about the Group Numbers.

Team USA came in second last year and skated a Group Number. Team Canada came in second this year and no Group Number. If it was offered to
2nd Place Team USA last season why not to 2nd Place Team Canada this year?

Team Japan skated a group number at the opening of the competition this season which they did not do last year, and another one at the Gala.

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LOL, I am "defensive" (to use your word) because your question about group numbers seemed to suggest that Team Canada was at fault for not performing together -- a suggestion without justification, to my knowledge. If I misunderstood the motivation for your question, I apologize.

If you go back and read my post above, I explained exactly why it is logical (at least to me) that Teams Japan and USA were the ones (the only ones) who performed group numbers this year. Won't bore everyone else by repeating what I already wrote.

Part of your last sentence ("... which they did not do last year") seems to be making the point that no law says that the exact same format for the opening ceremony has to be followed at every WTT anyway.
I agree with that point -- which if applied to the gala as well then only increases my uncertainty whether Team Canada was asked to skate a group number this year. And if Canada was not invited to do so, it would be unfair to blame the team for not performing.

golden411 said:

Journalists typically like to use quotes that are provocative and thus newsworthy.

Any favorable comments from Chan (if he made them) about Menshov, Rogozine, fans, etc. might have been omitted only because the reporter and/or editor deemed them "boring."
In other words, maybe DiManno's personal feelings toward Patrick are neutral ... or even (gasp!) positive.

OTOH, it is possible that she took pleasure in making Chan look bad, but I seem to recall that DiManno's stories often make her subjects look bad. That she had no qualms about highlighting quotes that would fuel anti-Chan sentiment might be more of a reflection on her preferred style of reporting than on him.

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Yeah, Rosie DiManno is a terrible Skeeter-type journalist who is know for spinning what her subjects say or picking and choosing their quotes. :disapp: It's pretty typical of the Star to do something like this, although I have no reason why Chan would chat with her about this. I'm assuming what was in quotes was things Chan actually said, but I'm pretty sure if he's looking at the article now he's probably scratching his head about why she didn't include positive things he might have said.

People keep repeating that skaters don't have a choice but have to go to WTT, but there are so many other skaters who didn't go... and this is in Japan. Do you really think the japanese audience bought their tickets mainly for Patrick? This event could have done without him.

Patrick really needs to learn to have some respect. He was whining last year how he doesn't feel appreciated enough, how he doesn't get the fame or money. Now WTT gives him money and the chance to perform in front of an audience that was really supportive - and he doesn't even bother with looking like he wanted to skate at all in his LP and just finished before the music ended. And whines about how he gets forced to skate at this event. What?
This is not about being honest - you can be perfectly honest and still show some respect for the other athletes and the audience. Or you can talk the way Patrick did.

Maybe a Union? Something? Pension Plan? It's such a magical Sport- I really wish more people had the opportunity to watch it in the US as we were so lucky to in the era of Michelle and Tara. I know we don't really have a Michelle and Tara now; but I still contend that any WTT competition is at least as compelling as any college lacrosse game broadcast on ESPN. But re: the Union, etc? When a skater as magical (to me) as Jeremy Abbott is almost past it as far as a competitive career at the age of 27; maybe Unionizing isn't such a bad thing? There are so many even lesser skaters who give me so much joy; and find themselves at the end of their competitive career at such a young age. I do wish we could take better care of our skaters; and see them much more often without having to resort to illegal streams from other countries.

Since Patrick seems constantly to be getting into trouble on his own, here's what Skate Canada ought to do on his behalf. Hire a PR guy to cruise the Internet skating boards and put out the fires. :yes:

Mathman said:

Since Patrick seems constantly to be getting into trouble on his own, here's what Skate Canada ought to do on his behalf. Hire a PR guy to cruise the Internet skating boards and put out the fires. :yes:

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What made you think they hadn't already

Mathman said:

Since Patrick seems constantly to be getting into trouble on his own, here's what Skate Canada ought to do on his behalf. Hire a PR guy to cruise the Internet skating boards and put out the fires. :yes:

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And you would be the perfect PR guy for Patrick, Mathman!

I'm not Chan's biggest fan, but even I can hope that he's not as big a douche as he makes himself appear in the press.

ITA concerning the need for PR training for him... and for all skaters for that matter. Perhaps Skate Canada can initiate a mentoring program, pairing up today's top skaters with champions from the past. Brian and Kurt have been through all this, and surely they can help Patrick navigate the hazards of being a champion.

Patrick is free to express himself on any issued he'd like. I don't have an opinion on the need for skater's union, but he lost the chance to present a rational argument by injecting all kinds of other controversial topics.

It's just plain rude to be so dismissive of WTT. Japanese fans have been very supportive of figure skating and of Patrick, and he's essentially said, "Yeah. About that little competition you love. Well, I hate it, and only do it because I'm made to do it. Not only that; we ALL hate it." It may be true, but it's also ill-mannered.

I wish one of the other skaters would issue a press release to the following effect: "When Patrick Chan has been authorized to speak on my behalf about skating issues, I'll let you know."

Champions in every sport are expected to perform exhibitions and other public duties that reflect positively on themselves and on the sport. Patrick isn't being picked on. And by the way... wasn't he just in the papers complaining about lack of money to support his skating? And here's a nice little paycheck that could at least ease things financially in the short term.

As a three-time WC, he could use his influence to increase the popularity of the sport, and even to advocate some change in the skating system... but he's used his moral authority unwisely. He continually makes himself a donkey.

I doubt Chan speaks for ALL skaters. I'm sure there are those who appreciated the WTT competition, fan support, and the financial rewards.

As a fan from the US, I certainly appreciate the support Japan has given skating.

Can Canada decline to attend WTT?

TontoK said:

Patrick is free to express himself on any issued he'd like. I don't have an opinion on the need for skater's union, but he lost the chance to present a rational argument by injecting all kinds of other controversial topics.

It's just plain rude to be so dismissive of WTT. Japanese fans have been very supportive of figure skating and of Patrick, and he's essentially said, "Yeah. About that little competition you love. Well, I hate it, and only do it because I'm made to do it. Not only that; we ALL hate it." It may be true, but it's also ill-mannered.

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Seconded! I think the debat of 'unionizing' figure skating could potentially be interesting. At least, it's made me wonder, are other elite athletes in other sports unionized somehow? Where does the idea come from? What possibilities are there?

But Patrick's made the argument for a union an empty argument. Hence the title of thread is a little misleading. Basically he's saying "The ISU made me compete in some stupid competition when I was already tired because it's been a long season." Don't quite see how that's a serious argument for a union. Yes from a certain point of view, the timing of WTT isn't great but nobody *really* forced the skaters. There was no real problem for SOI even with the penalty, if I understood correctly? If he forfeited he wasn't allowed to do shows until the 16th.. SOI started the 17th.. I really don't see the big deal. If he really didn't want to go, he didn't want to go. The Japanese fans and his Fed might have been disappointed but nobody *forced* him. And he still made a lot of money.
Saying "stupid competition" about any ISU event that people (fans, volunteers, officials, fellow skaters, coaches etc) put a ton of effort/money/energy etc in, is pretty rude and childish to begin with. I don't think "but it's his honest opinion" is an excuse. But then that's also just an opinon

Li'Kitsu said:

Patrick really needs to learn to have some respect. He was whining last year how he doesn't feel appreciated enough, how he doesn't get the fame or money. Now WTT gives him money and the chance to perform in front of an audience that was really supportive - and he doesn't even bother with looking like he wanted to skate at all in his LP and just finished before the music ended. And whines about how he gets forced to skate at this event. What?

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He comes across as wanting it both ways: the fame and money but not the extra appearances that are sometimes required to promote the sport.

Perhaps the WTT could be, say, just the SP, to lessen the chance of injury.

I think Chan simply needs to grow up and stop whining about not having the same level of fame or $ as a Browning or a Yu-Na. He's a grown man.

Patrick dont like wtt because after,worlds,too tired
So,what in 1997/1998 Michelle kwan,did worlds, and Goodwill games in july. She admited she wad,tired but like ed veryone else. She got paid do did patrick. Even in 1996/1997 the,skaters skated a pro-am event in may of which everyone admited to beingbtired. The pro am was less important than the wtt.
Each season has a event where skaters are tired back in past, did whine no admited was tired and left at that.,come across as better might have thought it, but didnt tell public why hurt in endorsing products to,sell yo.publuc.you are elite ,should be able tohandle tiredness when your competitors are just as,tired,asyoj.
Tootired dont due shows in beginning.want money shut ul, suck it up. Be tactful and resp ed ctful cv of other skaters. I dont recall kurt saying what patrick did. All skater think itsaying it no. hurt them latter,on
How it comes across does matter

You guys wonder why sport is going down between juding and skaters are saying.geesh

Usually I don't agree with him and I still don't like the way he say it, but I think I understand what he try to say and I actually agree with him on ISU! Not only world team trophy - also the olympic team event that begin before the classic four events!

Trewyn said:

Seconded! I think the debat of 'unionizing' figure skating could potentially be interesting. At least, it's made me wonder, are other elite athletes in other sports unionized somehow? Where does the idea come from? What possibilities are there?

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Most professional team sports have players' unions.I think major league baseball was one of the first to organize an effective union. Curt Flood resisted being traded to another team and fought the clause in baseball contracts that essentially made you a slave for life of the team that owned you. It went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. Even though Flood himself became a martyr to the union cause, the baseball players union did manage to stick together and eventually secured a lot of contractual rights.

But the reason unions work in big-time team sports is because of money. The owners of teams make billions off the labor of the players. To threaten to withhold that labor hits the owners in the pocketbook. The ISU would not care if the skaters went on strike. There are always more coming along with Olympic gold dust in their eyes.

I AGREE and have felt that way for a long time. Skaters are at the complete mercy of their federations and the ISU. Skaters have power and should use it.
Boycotting competitions if necessary if their grievances are not addressed. Bravo, Chan.

It's true that if a bunch of top skaters decided to strike against the ISU, they would all be banned from competition forever. Their places would be taken by the next echelon of skaters, all eager to win the medals they couldn't win with the top guys in place.

So what would be the purpose of forming a union if the skaters would have no recourse no matter what they did?

Does anyone really believe Chan is willing to forgo Olympic eligibility in pursuit of his cause?