2013 - 2014 Russian skaters, rules, and events | Page 8 | Golden Skate

2013 - 2014 Russian skaters, rules, and events

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
All the Tuktamysheva critics are going eat their words when Liza emerges as Russia's number one this season. :yes:
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
All the Tuktamysheva critics are going eat their words when Liza emerges as Russia's number one this season. :yes:
I would love to be proven wrong but she has horrible programs this season

Lol it's almost an improvement over previous comments and behavior but still needs yet another warning on proper behavior.

probably one more warning left :biggrin:
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
All the Tuktamysheva critics are going eat their words when Liza emerges as Russia's number one this season. :yes:

Maybe...but at this point Julia and Anna are looking better than what we've seen of Liza and Adelina in those videos so idk. Plus Liza's new SP is terrible. And we haven't even seen Polina K. and Perkova skate yet so idk what to think at this point. Liza definitely can pull it together but the question is will she. And with Adelina, she looks in great shape but the jumps are still scary. Maybe the ice was bad yesterday or something but I am still worried.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
cant we stop pls with Polina K. and Pogorilaya

Polina K. is a shadow of her former shelf, she grew even taller and probably has more problem with jumps
she is taller than Volchkova now btw, Pogorilaya is Shelepn 2.0, so I dont think she will be challenging
we'll have to wait for Leonova
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I agree that Pogorilaya is a copy of Shelepen a few years ago. She has lovely jumps but she hasn't learned to present properly. Her skating looks still a bit untidy/sloppy. I am sure she still has plenty of time to develop and become elegant if she works on it, but I can't see her being very successful at senior level at this moment yet. I don't think having jumps will be enough at this moment for senior level. Maybe when the 'old guard' retire...
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Old guard of Russia? lol the issue is can Anna beat Liza and Adelina and now it is yes.
 

Selene

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Agree. I'm worried either it's a deep-rooted technique issue or that her nerves are getting the better of her at all times, even in a laid back atmosphere like this. Hopefully it was just a bad run-through and not par for what to expect from her this season. The spins look good though and the spiral has beautiful extension, but even so, she needs the jumps. Also she does that Miki Ando stick-your-butt-out and bend forward while stroking thing which is distracting.

It's poor jumping technique. The videos of her programs show that she hasn't even attempted to correct her issues. The edge still wobbles back and forth, like Caroline Zhang's, on her flip entry. She still has a major flutz. Although I guess going for 3Flutz-3Loop< is smart. She can't rotate back end triples in combination anyway, so why not go for the 3Lo<. It will give her more points than her usual 3T<.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I agree that Pogorilaya is a copy of Shelepen a few years ago. She has lovely jumps but she hasn't learned to present properly. Her skating looks still a bit untidy/sloppy. I am sure she still has plenty of time to develop and become elegant if she works on it, but I can't see her being very successful at senior level at this moment yet. I don't think having jumps will be enough at this moment for senior level. Maybe when the 'old guard' retire...

Please, Pogorilaya is much better than Shelepen already (and for awhile there, Shelepen was actually quite good). While I agree they have a number of similarities (3-3s, strong jumps, body type, etc.), in 3 months of international competition Pogorilaya put up a PB score 5 points higher (167+) than the PB it took Shelepen nearly 3 years to earn (162+). Plus, Anna medaled at JW on her first try while Polina went 3 times and never medaled (never exceeded the score Anna put up there either, and that was not even Anna skating anywhere close to her best). Plus I feel like although she is still gawky and sloppy at times, Anna's presentation as well as basics (speed, stroking, etc) are already better than Polina, you can tell from her PCS, Shelepen's was always so low until 2011-2012 season when she was really making strides, while Pogorilaya's PCS was always among the highest at the junior internationals, and even decent at senior nationals. Further, to be fair to Polina, if I'm being honest she really was doing quite well and improving a lot once she adjusted to her new height and before she went to Sokolovskaya and got injured.

Anyways, if Adelina and Liza are having such issues with their jumps, then they should be able to get beaten by someone with lesser presentation landing their jumps, that's how the sport should work.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Also Polina K. has always been tall, she's only a couple centimeters taller now than she was back in 2011-2012 season when she was jumping like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qVDWz7A6Lo . Sorry but if she can skate like that again there is a GOOD chance she could beat a Liza or Adelina falling all over the place at Nationals.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Old guard of Russia? lol the issue is can Anna beat Liza and Adelina and now it is yes.

No, I meant the ones like Kostner, Asada, Suzuki,Kim etc. While Pogorilaya may manage to outjump the others within Russia to be sent to bigger international competitions (Europeans, Worlds), I don't think international judges would go with her while Kostner, Asada, Suzuki,Kim are competing. Against those skaters she would have no chance. But that will change when those will retire because she would be competing against others relatively young skaters whose PCS may not be that much higher than hers.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Please, Pogorilaya is much better than Shelepen already (and for awhile there, Shelepen was actually quite good). While I agree they have a number of similarities (3-3s, strong jumps, body type, etc.), in 3 months of international competition Pogorilaya put up a PB score 5 points higher (167+) than the PB it took Shelepen nearly 3 years to earn (162+). Plus, Anna medaled at JW on her first try while Polina went 3 times and never medaled (never exceeded the score Anna put up there either, and that was not even Anna skating anywhere close to her best). Plus I feel like although she is still gawky and sloppy at times, Anna's presentation as well as basics (speed, stroking, etc) are already better than Polina, you can tell from her PCS, Shelepen's was always so low until 2011-2012 season when she was really making strides, while Pogorilaya's PCS was always among the highest at the junior internationals, and even decent at senior nationals. Further, to be fair to Polina, if I'm being honest she really was doing quite well and improving a lot once she adjusted to her new height and before she went to Sokolovskaya and got injured.

Anyways, if Adelina and Liza are having such issues with their jumps, then they should be able to get beaten by someone with lesser presentation landing their jumps, that's how the sport should work.

I don't think Pogorilaya is so much better than Shelepen was some 2-3 years ago. Only time will show.

And in regards to Adelina and Liza having such problems with jumps, you wish! Adelina has landed 3Lz-3L. Even with deduction for the edge it will count. And don't forget that now is still pre-season. Compare what Adelina skated with what Kaetlyn Osmond skated recently and you may notice that it is not much difference in not fully landing jumps pre season. Kaetlyn Osmond did not exactly shine either.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
No, I meant the ones like Kostner, Asada, Suzuki,Kim etc. While Pogorilaya may manage to outjump the others within Russia to be sent to bigger international competitions (Europeans, Worlds), I don't think international judges would go with her while Kostner, Asada, Suzuki,Kim are competing. Against those skaters she would have no chance. But that will change when those will retire because she would be competing against others relatively young skaters whose PCS may not be that much higher than hers.

I agree with all this I just don't think it's relevant to discuss pogorilaya vs Kim asada kostner at this point nor do I really think it's relevant for any other Russian skater. I mean with kostner doing two double salchows in her Europeans program and still winning it's not like there is any competition between Liza and Adelina with anyone in the top 3 and now with them both declining rapidly since euros 2013 pogorilaya and lipnitskaia are well positioned to overtake them.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I agree with all this I just don't think it's relevant to discuss pogorilaya vs Kim asada kostner at this point nor do I really think it's relevant for any other Russian skater. I mean with kostner doing two double salchows in her Europeans program and still winning it's not like there is any competition between Liza and Adelina with anyone in the top 3 and now with them both declining rapidly since euros 2013 pogorilaya and lipnitskaia are well positioned to overtake them.

Are you sure about them declining since Europeans? Have you been at their practice regularly? As far as I know, they only messed up one competition and that was 5 months ago...
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Are you sure about them declining since Europeans? Have you been at their practice regularly? As far as I know, they only messed up one competition and that was 5 months ago...

I include the WTT as well. Everyone at the wtt was in the same boat really and Liza and Adelina were very poor which continued them being poor at worlds. adelina's free skate at wtt was just so bad but was totally in line with all her free skates except euros.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I include the WTT as well. Everyone at the wtt was in the same boat really and Liza and Adelina were very poor which continued them being poor at worlds. adelina's free skate at wtt was just so bad but was totally in line with all her free skates except euros.

Sotnikova has 2 huge nemesis her 3F and the LP
where she makes an average 3 mistakes
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
I include the WTT as well. Everyone at the wtt was in the same boat really and Liza and Adelina were very poor which continued them being poor at worlds. adelina's free skate at wtt was just so bad but was totally in line with all her free skates except euros.

World Trophy? Tuktamysheva did poorly, but Sotnikova was just one place under Gold, that's not such a poor result. Besides, it still was some 4 months ago, so your claim that they have been declining since Europeans is not exactly accurate, is it. Let's see what GP will bring before we start making claim about their decline.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Sotnikova has 2 huge nemesis her 3F and the LP
where she makes an average 3 mistakes

I know and it's terrible!

World Trophy? Tuktamysheva did poorly, but Sotnikova was just one place under Gold, that's not such a poor result. Besides, it still was some 4 months ago, so your claim that they have been declining since Europeans is not exactly accurate, is it. Let's see what GP will bring before we start making claim about their decline.

Ok worlds and wtt are long ago but cant these videos be seen as them practicing? So technically everyone has access to them practicing and Liza and Adelina are weak. Very weak! But not everyone is weak now so it's on them!
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
2 years ago people thought Shelepen was a lock for the Euros and Worlds team, and likely would have made both if she hadn't bombed the SP so badly at Nationals that year.

It's pointless to talk about any of the Russian girls beating Kim, Kostner, or Asada at this point because it's never going to happen unless Koster and Asada have meltdowns of epic proportion. Liza going foot-perfect with 7 triples and 2 double axels matches the FS score Kostner and Asada can earn with an okay skate with 2-3 major errors, and then Liza would need to skate a good SP on top of that to even challenge, and she skated one good SP last season, at Nationals, every other competition her SP was not good, and sometimes even disastrous. Adelina can challenge Kostner and Asada with one error each in the SP if she's clean and doesn't pop or fall on her flip, and gets no more than one < on any of her jumps, but then there's the FS and if she continues to try two flips in her FS it's highly likely she'll pop or fall on at least one of them, give up at least one combination and get riddled with the +SEQ deduction, and then there's the 2a to worry about because she's so prone to falling out of it these days, which again puts her at risk of missing the 2a-3t combo or only managing 2a-2t, and then there's the spin entrances she sometimes messes up because she goes into them too forcefully. So yeah, a clean Adelina can maybe squeak out a win over a Kostner or Asada with 4+ errors between their two programs each, but how likely is that to happen?

So really, it is a moot point that someone like Pogorilaya or Korobeynikova has no chance at beating Mao or Carolina because Tuk and Sot really don't have much of a chance either...
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Usually people are talking about pogorilaya or lipnitskaia Or korobeynikova replacing the team of tutsmksheva and sotnikova at Olympics or euros and then it becomes about how none of them - except Liza or Adelina- would have any prayer of beating the big three and therefore would never be sent by the Russian federation but then It has to be mentioned that no one was talking about Koro pogo or Julia beating the big three and Liza or Adelina can't do It either so what's the big deal? I wish these could stay focused on the Russian team and how precarious Liza and adelina's positions are and not have it morph into Julia vs Kim when it wouldn't even be Adelina vs Kim or Kostner or Mao! Kostner can do double salchows twice against Liza and Adelina!!! Mao 3 triples against Julia! But Julia can beat Liza and Adelina
 
Top