Skaters who can dominate both in IJS and 6.0. | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Skaters who can dominate both in IJS and 6.0.

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Plushenko won worlds under 6.0 and almost 2 Olympics under COP so its safe to say him who did! Arakawa did too! Worlds under one and Olympic under the other!

:thumbsup: Don't forget Shen/Zhao also did! :cool:

Arakawa never was a consistent skater so to say; she had a 'clean SP+clean Free' combined only TWICE whole her competitive career, but she did it when it most counted: one at Worlds and another at the Games. Her talent and potential was just that enormous/infinite to be well worthy of the World Champ and OG Medalist! :rock:
As for Plushenko, we need no words to explain how great this legendary skater is. No one argues/disagrees. :cool: Same goes for Yagudin; he surely could have won a Worlds title or two if not those unfortunate injuries and stayed much longer in the competitive skating under today's IJS. :yes:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
There are only 2 Worlds or Olympics Kwan received predominantly 5.8s for technical merit in the long program and those were 2003 and 1996. In 2001 she had a mix of 5.7s and 5.8s on technical and 5.8s and 5.9s on presentation, so even there more judges gave her something below 5.8, 5.9 overall.

That's skate order, right? In 1996 she went last, while in 2003 it was unlikely that the remaining two skaters would challenge her (although Sokolova did!), plus the home country factor. In 2000 and 2001 she skated before Slutskaya, so the judges had to leave room.

Thanks pangtongfan for raising a very interesting point about Tara and Irina. I find it funny other posters base their posts on their presumed "Michelle Kwan is a better artist" notion, which I don't agree on anyway, rather than past results of 6.0.

I think "artistry" is not the right word. Michelle swept audiences away with the intensity of her emotion and her ability to communicate her joy in performing. The 6.0 judges were not totally immune to this quality of her skating, while the IJS computer is unmoved.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Both Kim and Kwan can dominate in 6.0 and IJS because both are highly talented and skillful skaters. In IJS, you need to maximise your skills to win points. In 6.0 it's a slightly different game. Whatever systems, both Ks would and will dominate. All they have to do is to adjust their training and choreography to maximise points in whichever system they are competing in.

Also, Michelle's competitive fire should not be discounted.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Under 6.0 underrotations and minor two foots werent a huge deal. Falls and major stumbles out of jumps were, but underrotatoins and minor two foots were much less of a big deal than under 6.0. I am quite sure the judges viewed Bonaly`s technical quota that day much higher, and the marks indicate this. Most judges gave Bonaly a 5.9 and Chen a 5.7. Chen won by much higher presentation marks. Had the judges ruled Bonaly`s underrotations and two foots in that particular long program as negating the jump Kwan who did 7 whistle clean triples would have been viewed as technically superior that day, and the marks indicated they did not feel that way.

I agree that URs were less of a huge deal back then, as long as a skate "looked" clean. Indeed the judges saw Bonaly's technical quota as higher than Chen's (as they should have) but if we're talking clean triples quota they were pretty much even. Under 6.0, Chen's triples would have earned much higher GOE. Kwan should have been seen as technically superior than both, but unfortunately the judges held her back. The fact that only two judges gave her a 5.9, when she executed 7 clean triples and skated after Bonaly/Chen was a travesty.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
yes kim is really nothing, she dont even do 7 triples, also she have wrong edge 3F, dont do 3R etc. Of course, her artistry is nowhere near to Ito midori or Michelle. her all programs were weaker than Michelle's or Midori's all programs, in artistry and technically. how bad...
I think many people were refuted Mathman's post enough. now I want to talk about other skaters

:unsure:

1. She CAN do 7 triples (see 2010 Olympics--never mind, I miscounted), but why would she when she's been away for 2 years and doesn't need all of them to win?
2. She has been edge-called on the 3F exactly TWICE in her career. That's not exactly indicative of a persistent technical problem.
3. She no longer does the triple loop because of her previous injuries. So? She can still win by 21 points without it.
4. Michelle Kwan and Midori Ito both had the full package, but yes, they DID have bad competitions. So, therefore, it's not unreasonable that current Yuna could outskate either or both of them at their peaks.

But sure. If it makes you happy, let's talk about other skaters.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
:unsure:

1. She CAN do 7 triples (see 2010 Olympics), but why would she when she's been away for 2 years and doesn't need all of them to win?
2. She has been edge-called on the 3F exactly TWICE in her career. That's not exactly indicative of a persistent technical problem.
3. She no longer does the triple loop because of her previous injuries. So? She can still win by 21 points without it.
4. Michelle Kwan and Midori Ito both had the full package, but yes, they DID have bad competitions. So, therefore, it's not unreasonable that current Yuna could outskate either or both of them at their peaks.

Kim did 6 triples at the Olympics, but she's shown to be capable of a 3L, and Kim certainly did her 3Z+3T and 2A+3T and a second 3Z, and it was a technically brilliant skate.

IMO (and referring to Venlac's post), Kim's artistry is far greater than Ito. Ito had a vivacity when she skated but she wasn't particularly graceful or as elegant to watch as Kim.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Kim did 6 triples at the Olympics, but she's shown to be capable of a 3L, and Kim certainly did her 3Z+3T and 2A+3T and a second 3Z, and it was a technically brilliant skate.

IMO (and referring to Venlac's post), Kim's artistry is far greater than Ito. Ito had a vivacity when she skated but she wasn't particularly graceful or as elegant to watch as Kim.

My bad about the Olympics. I think, though, she ditched the 3Lo like Michelle did because of the pressure it put on her hip. She might bring it back for the Olympic season, but even without it, she can max out her technical content to the point where it would be equal to or greater than landing seven clean triples (I think there was a thread solely devoted to this question).

And, as she's shown time and again, she doesn't need 7 triples to decimate the competition. Even a clean Kostner & Asada at Worlds wouldn't have trumped her.
 

MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
:unsure:

1. She CAN do 7 triples (see 2010 Olympics--never mind, I miscounted), but why would she when she's been away for 2 years and doesn't need all of them to win?
2. She has been edge-called on the 3F exactly TWICE in her career. That's not exactly indicative of a persistent technical problem.
3. She no longer does the triple loop because of her previous injuries. So? She can still win by 21 points without it.
4. Michelle Kwan and Midori Ito both had the full package, but yes, they DID have bad competitions. So, therefore, it's not unreasonable that current Yuna could outskate either or both of them at their peaks.

But sure. If it makes you happy, let's talk about other skaters.



I think Venlac was beng sarcastic...
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Venlac is a steadfast Kim supporter. He/she was protesting against the posters who did not give Yuna her due on this thread.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Joannie Rochette, Ashley Wagner besides the obvious Yuna Kim would fair well. V and T would probably do better than Ssquared since the Germans rarely skate cleanly. Michelle Kwan would be fine under both - though some her simple moves wouldn't get the scores under IJS. V and M might gain a bit under 6.0 over D and W for their innovation. I am not sure how Ten would do; his quality may hold him back, not to mention lack of reputation until now LOL. We have seen jumpers not do well under 6.0 or held back ie. bonaly but there are many lesser skaters who had multiple triples or whatever and never really were a contender.

Rochette? Really? She was pretty inconsistent for most of her career and didn't go completely clean often.

Wagner WOULD be the quintessential 6.0 skater. A lot of her programs have a 6.0 feel.
 

venlac

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
I'm near to kim's fan, and yes, i was being sarcastic



And, as she's shown time and again, she doesn't need 7 triples to decimate the competition. Even a clean Kostner & Asada at Worlds wouldn't have trumped her.

I don't agree. A few months ago, I have seen the thread about Ladies field(i don't remember exact title of thread) and the posters had arguement about the top three and who can win clean kim.
almost all posters agreed with that "Caro is more likely to silver medal than Asada, but she won't be able to beat clean kim even if she have also clean program. Who have more potential to win clean kim is Asada, when she have two clean programs, she will beat clean kim." ( anyway it's just problem about scoring potential, i can't sure Mao will be able to have less mistakes than kim Yuna in Sochi.)
In vancouver, Even if Asada had two clean programs, maybe she wouldn't beat clean kim, but at that time Asada didn't had 3-3 and rule has changed. kim can't do 2A-3T anymore, factor of GOE is reduced.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
It seems that you've often run out what to say except personal attacks.;)
Come one! You don't believe in it yourself that my persona could have run out of words. And why you are complaining about personal attacks while coming with the one? :laugh:
Bring me facts to back up your claims regarding CoP if you wish to be considered constractitve. But no slippers in the shopping malls if you please. :bow:
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Come one! You don't believe in it yourself that my persona could have run out of words. And why you are complaining about personal attacks while coming with the one? :laugh:
Bring me facts to back up your claims regarding CoP if you wish to be considered constractitve. But no slippers in the shopping malls if you please. :bow:

Why? Because there is a saying: eye for an eye and tooth for tooth.;)

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/RCkNErQTN8U/Oprah+Winfrey+Stops+Morning+Shows+2/IxwNlCwMbCp :)
 

Bartek

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
OMG, having read the first few pages of the thread is as expected Kwan, Kwan, Kwan who would have no chance under COP with her underrotating half of her tiny jumps, weak spins unable to get level 4 and nothing expect choreographed sequence that could have gotten high GOE. But of course it's Kwan so she has to be brought up here even if it's ridiculous. There are actually few skaters, but still, who managed to dominate under both system, namely Slutskaya and Plushenko. Slutskaya consistently got over 190 with much stricter judging back than.
 
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