What would podium in Sochi be if Kostner, Asada, and Kim all go clean | Page 15 | Golden Skate

What would podium in Sochi be if Kostner, Asada, and Kim all go clean

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
since when mskater93 is a yuna fan?? :rofl: she actually prefer carolina over yuna. it looks like every poster who is making sense on this thread is now a Yuna fan. simply paranoid. so.. keep it coming. :laugh:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
ITA. I called it "happy piddles" scoring :). The judges were so excited to see her knock her program out of the park they let the high scores fly. There was no question she was the winner and like you said, whether she won by 5 points or 25 didn't matter b/c no one can legitimately argue that she didn't deserve to win. I do think she was overscored at worlds this year in the FS (I actually think she was a tad underscored in the SP) but in the end, she was the clear winner so the numbers are irrelevant.

I think this is a good explanation of the result. I don't think her actual win could be contested. No one who was watching could have said, "Huh? Why did that performance beat all the others?" There may be other competitions in which one of the other ladies supersedes her, the way Elizabeth Manley's lights-out long program beat both Witt and Thomas at Calgary (though her combined SP/LP results couldn't get her the gold), but that day in Ontario, YuNa was The One and Only.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that this performance would probably have won under 6.0 as well.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
since when mskater93 is a yuna fan?? :rofl: she actually prefer carolina over yuna. it looks like every poster who is making sense on this thread is now a Yuna fan. simply paranoid. so.. keep it coming. :laugh:

Just because you prefer one skater over another doesn't mean that you can't be a fan of both. :rolleye:

I personally prefer Gracie Gold to Ashley Wagner. Will I still cheer myself hoarse for Ashley at 2014 Nationals? You bet.
 

bara1968

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
I don't understand what this let's talk person is upto. Many people analyzed possible score potential of Asada in LP(Mathman, Flattfan etc. and many more) to prove that she can even break 150+ if she goes absoultely clean. But (s)he is still arguing Asada cannot score THAT no matter what without providing any proper reasoning besides corrupted judging system. Now I am curious. let's talk, WHY do you think that Asada cannot score higher than 148+ no matter what? Can you give your own score analysis(since CoP is CoP) within Asada to disprove almost everyone's argument within her? You keep saying it's simple math, but my simple math says if she perform first 4 jumps (3A, 3F+3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lz without UR or e)in LP cleanly with +1 GOE each, she would get almost 9 more TES than she actually got. (meaning, easily +75 or more in TES already, if she also cleanly performed 3F+2Lo+2Lo.)
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Just because you prefer one skater over another doesn't mean that you can't be a fan of both. :rolleye:

I personally prefer Gracie Gold to Ashley Wagner. Will I still cheer myself hoarse for Ashley at 2014 Nationals? You bet.

that's true but she's attacking anyone who dare to say otherwise..and start generalizing that a fan is a bot..which is not even true.. :disapp:
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I haven't seen any such attacks. Can you show me the posts?

she attacked jaylee for no other reason.. and start calling her bot, stupid, etc. when in fact when you read jaylee's post.. she was just making a case from the start.. jaylee is actually a kwan fan first and foremost.. before she became a yuna fan for your information..
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
she attacked jaylee for no other reason.. and start calling her bot, stupid, etc. when in fact when you read jaylee's post.. she was just making a case from the start.. jaylee is actually a kwan fan first and foremost.. before she became a yuna fan for your information.. :rolleye:

Again, can you please show me the post?

I'm well aware that jaylee is a Yuna fan; I'm not sure how that's relevant.

ETA: Thank you, bara1968. I never saw the posts, but misunderstandings are quite common when communicating through text. Whatever the context of these posts was, mskater93 was making a case FOR Yuna, not AGAINST her.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Again, can you please show me the post?

I'm well aware that jaylee is a Yuna fan; I'm not sure how that's relevant.

ETA: Thank you, bara1968. I never saw the posts, but misunderstandings are quite common when communicating through text. Whatever the context of these posts was, mskater93 was making a case FOR Yuna, not AGAINST her.

actually it is relevant because not all yuna fans are bots.. some are defending her because someone call her arrogant without proof and just making up stories which is not fair.. and then start claiming that yuna only won because of cheating..talked about hypocrisy.. :rolleye:
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
actually it is relevant because not all yuna fans are bots.. some are defending her because someone call her arrogant without proof and just making up stories which is not fair.. and then start claiming that yuna only won because of cheating..talked about hypocrisy.. :rolleye:

Wait, what? I'm not sure how we strayed so far from the topic at hand. All I was trying to say was that you misinterpreted mskater93's post to be attacking Yuna when it was simply offering a logical argument for her victory. I've seen other posts claiming that Yuna cheated her way to the gold medal and that ALL Yuna fans are Yuna fans ( :rolleye: ), but mskater93's was not one of them. In fact, I think that most of those posts were deleted as contrary to the purpose of this thread.

Anyway, sorry for any confusion.
 

bara1968

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Wait, what? I'm not sure how we strayed so far from the topic at hand. All I was trying to say was that you misinterpreted mskater93's post to be attacking Yuna when it was simply offering a logical argument for her victory. I've seen other posts claiming that Yuna cheated her way to the gold medal and that ALL Yuna fans are Yuna fans ( :rolleye: ), but mskater93's was not one of them. In fact, I think that most of those posts were deleted as contrary to the purpose of this thread.

Anyway, sorry for any confusion.

I think cooper is referring "let's talk", not mskater93 in her(his) post.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Wait, what? I'm not sure how we strayed so far from the topic at hand. All I was trying to say was that you misinterpreted mskater93's post to be attacking Yuna when it was simply offering a logical argument for her victory. I've seen other posts claiming that Yuna cheated her way to the gold medal and that ALL Yuna fans are Yuna fans ( :rolleye: ), but mskater93's was not one of them. In fact, I think that most of those posts were deleted as contrary to the purpose of this thread.

Anyway, sorry for any confusion.

i'm not talking about mskater93..:rolleye: i'm just saying that not all her fans are bots..:rolleye:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
You keep saying it's simple math, but my simple math says if she perform first 4 jumps (3A, 3F+3Lo, 3Lo, 3Lz without UR or e)in LP cleanly with +1 GOE each, she would get almost 9 more TES than she actually got. (meaning, easily +75 or more in TES already, if she also cleanly performed 3F+2Lo+2Lo.)

That's a really clear explanation. Thanks!
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I'm a fan of Yu-Na, Carolina, Mao, Akiko, Ashley, Kanako, Adelina, Zijun, Christina, Kaetlyn, Elizaveta and about a dozen other skaters. The only skater anyone could call me a "bot" for is Michelle Kwan, though Michelle predates talk of "bots"; ubers is the preferred moniker. :) But even in my uberness I'm not so blind that I can't see where Michelle was lacking. Some people get so wrapped up in their fanaticism that they can't accept any kind opinion (or sometimes even facts) which contradict their views. I try to avoid those kind of people...

I enjoy skating a lot more now than I did when Michelle was competing b/c I get to cheer for everyone. That's the beauty in being a fan of the sport in general rather than clinging to just one skater. I'm not emotionally invested in any of these ladies so win or lose, I'm generally happy b/c someone I like ends up winning. I do disagree with results or criticize skaters from time to time but I don't bash skaters. I try to make all of my criticisms constructive and voice my opinions without insisting others agree with me (cause that's annoying...:rolleye:).
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Going back to the discussion: The question is "What would podium in Sochi if Kostner/Asada and Kim go clean?"

One way to look at it, as many have, is to look at what would happen if they were clean on their planned content; a perfectly reasonable way to go at it.

But for me the question is under what conditions would they would "go clean." So for me, you have to look in what it would take for those three skaters to skate clean programs. Asada has a potentially high BV but she has yet to skate a high BV program clean, with the exception of 4CC and even then she got a few URs in the FS on those key elements (3A, 3F-3L and 2A-3T).


Here's Mao's BV at the last few WCs in the FS:

2007: 65.48 (3A, 3F-3L, 2A-3T<)
2008: 56.40 (Waxel(zero points), 3F-3T, 3F-3L<)
2009: 57.25 (3A-2T, 3A<)
2010: 59.30 (3A. 3A<-2T)
2011: 51.20 (3A<<, 2A-3T<<)
2012: 39.88 (1A, 2A-2T)
2013: 62.30 (3A (major error); no 3-3; 2A-3T)

For the record here's Carolina's BV during the same period

2007: 47.53 (lots of pops)
2008: 64.28 (but lots of -GOE; She did attempt 3F-3T-2T and 2A-3T)
2009: 35.16 (not a single clean triple).
2010: 55.27 (3F-3T)
2011: 51.62 (2A-3T)
2012: 53.04 (2A-3T)
2013: 50.75 (3F-3T; fall and downgrade on 3S)

Yuna's BV

2007: 52.61 (3F-3T; 2A-3T, low BV due to zayaking)
2008: 58.51 (3F-3T, 2A-3T)
2009: 52.89 (3F-3T, zero points for a spin)
2010: 57.05 (3Z-3T, 2A-3T, fall on 3S, waxel)
2011: 51.70 (3Z-3T; two pops)
2013: 58.22 (3Z-3T)

In general, Mao has had a higher BV than Yuna, but because she has lower +GOE, she has always lost to Yuna ultimately.

Carolina has managed to get on the podium in the last three WC with much lower BV than her competitors. At 2012 Worlds, where she won, Akiko (55.21), Ashley (57.70), Alena (56.57) Kexin Zhang (55.40), Yretha (55.63) all had higher BV. Of course Carolina got the highest PCS scores, but she got a tremendous amount of +GOE to get the highest TES for the competition.

Carolina is most likely go clean, for the most part, on her current content. Even if she didn't upgrade her current content, I think it would be enough to beat Mao. Carolina, to her credit, has developed a smart strategy that involved her skating clean and grabbing that +GOE.

But I think Carolina needs a higher BV if she wants to beat Yuna, and I'm not sure if she would necessarily be clean with harder content, though if she simply did a 3F-3T in the SP, (which she has done in competition; so totally possible) she could give Yuna a run for her money.

Mao, has had an inconsistent 2A-3T (no UR) at the World stage (though as kwaniac, pointed out was clean this year). The last time she did a 3F-3L clean was 2007 and a 3F-3T was in 2008. So that's why I don't think (based on current analysis) that she could do a high BV program clean. I'd love for her to prove me wrong though.

So that's why I'd stick to my podium of Yu-Na, Carolina and Mao.

But hey it's early, things could change, right?
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Mao, on the other hand hasn't done a clean 2A-3T (no UR) at the World stage in several years

Mao's 2A-3T at worlds was clean this year and earned 1.40 points in GOE.

In regards to the rest of your post, I think you're missing the point of the hypothetical scenario. I'm taking clean to mean no URs, no negative GOE, an assumption that every element was executed well. Mao's BV of her SP and FS along with +GOE (not as much as Yu-Na or Carolina of course) and a hike in her PCS (which would happen if she were to skate cleanly) would make it very difficult for anyone to catch her over the course of the competition.
 

cheerio2

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
I'm a fan of Yu-Na, Carolina, Mao, Akiko, Ashley, Kanako, Adelina, Zijun, Christina, Kaetlyn, Elizaveta and about a dozen other skaters. The only skater anyone could call me a "bot" for is Michelle Kwan, though Michelle predates talk of "bots"; ubers is the preferred moniker. :) But even in my uberness I'm not so blind that I can't see where Michelle was lacking. Some people get so wrapped up in their fanaticism that they can't accept any kind opinion (or sometimes even facts) which contradict their views. I try to avoid those kind of people...

I enjoy skating a lot more now than I did when Michelle was competing b/c I get to cheer for everyone. That's the beauty in being a fan of the sport in general rather than clinging to just one skater. I'm not emotionally invested in any of these ladies so win or lose, I'm generally happy b/c someone I like ends up winning. I do disagree with results or criticize skaters from time to time but I don't bash skaters. I try to make all of my criticisms constructive and voice my opinions without insisting others agree with me (cause that's annoying...:rolleye:).

Well said. Both constructive criticism and constructive fandom make for good discussions. I don't feel emotionally invested in anyone now, and I find I definitely enjoy skating more now as a result too. It's great just how many skaters are doing 3-3s or attempting them. A great time for the sport.
 
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