Japan Open 2013 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Rude. And also, an obvious answer. Because her lutz gets edge calls and she wants to maintain high jump content, so she repeats her flip and loop instead of repeating her salchow.

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But a well-executed 3sal garners more points than a popped or fallen on 3f, so really, no, it doesn't make sense. Adelina has a great 3sal, she can easily get +2s for GOE on it, meanwhile her success rate with 3f is about 25%, so is 1 more point in BV really worth that much of a risk? Absolutely not.

deedee1 said:

-Javier: Wow 3 quads at this early in the season!!! Personally I would prefer last season's Chaplin a lot. With this program, I don't think he can ever beat Patrick on PCS, but Javi is clearly capable of 'outjump' Patrick.

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It´s still very early in the season and I think this programme will develop in to something fantastic at the time of the Olympics.

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Rude. And also, an obvious answer. Because her lutz gets edge calls and she wants to maintain high jump content, so she repeats her flip and loop instead of repeating her salchow.

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No this is wrong. WIth her extreme flip problems when there are two!! She needs 3S-2t-2t! She needs regress for success! That's the only answer! No more of this losing two jumps-just eliminating combos from her programs because of the baffling- truly baffling fixation on doing two flips which she absolutely can't do. She wants to do 3F and 3F-2t-2l and never ever can because she can't do it. never ever can she do it. Never since October or November 2010. Never ever.

silverlake22 said:

But a well-executed 3sal garners more points than a popped or fallen on 3f, so really, no, it doesn't make sense. Adelina has a great 3sal, she can easily get +2s for GOE on it, meanwhile her success rate with 3f is about 25%, so is 1 more point in BV really worth that much of a risk? Absolutely not.

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You are right! She needs to regress for success!!

silverlake22 said:

meanwhile her success rate with 3f is about 25%

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Good lord... this was discussed to death last season, and you still need to make some argument out of some completly imaginery numbers?
Yes, her success rate is pretty low, but counted together last season it was about 50% - by far not 25%. What the hell :sarcasm:

I don't care what the scores were, Joannie had the skate of the night(?) for the ladies. Why isn't she skating for Canada at the Olympics? This program, if she skates it like she did here, is podium-worthy. The music doesn't hurt either--look what it did for Davis and White.

pokky_oc said:

Asada's new costume!!

http://live.sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/live/sports/figureskate_all/1858/photo/8011

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Could that be a Russian design, perhaps?

I'm surprised Ashley's flip hasn't received any edge calls. Her take off has always been more on the flat side but with that new entry it has become more obvious, imo. Anyone else who noticed it?

Li'Kitsu said:

Good lord... this was discussed to death last season, and you still need to make some argument out of some completly imaginery numbers?
Yes, her success rate is pretty low, but counted together last season it was about 50% - by far not 25%. What the hell :sarcasm:

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Well either way she almost always loses 2 jumps which are supposed to come after the second flip! 2t-2t. What is so baffling is that when she landed the first flip she doesn't try to do 2t-2t immediately! Sotnikova and flips are just baffling.

I had missed the part that Slutskaya is going to Japan open and I looked at the protocols and my eyes popped open.
Sotnikova's dress, i dont know what to think of it, especially the gloves. i liked her program a lot, has she skated to the music again?

Mao, I m in love with dress and program

gmyers said:

No this is wrong. WIth her extreme flip problems when there are two!! She needs 3S-2t-2t! She needs regress for success! That's the only answer! No more of this losing two jumps-just eliminating combos from her programs because of the baffling- truly baffling fixation on doing two flips which she absolutely can't do. She wants to do 3F and 3F-2t-2l and never ever can because she can't do it. never ever can she do it. Never since October or November 2010. Never ever.

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Maybe she's the type of competitor who actually wants to challenge herself and keep her content high? Why should 3-3 be attempted when many skaters have 50-50 success rates or worse? Adelina's flip does give her problems but that's still a jump she feels comfortable performing. Liza has messed up many a 3lz, or 3z-3t, and yet she still goes for them instead of opting for easier jump content.

It's a silly suggestion to ask her to regress her content in an Olympic year when she will need everything in order to get a decent placing or threaten for bronze.

gmyers said:

Well either way she almost always loses 2 jumps which are supposed to come after the second flip! 2t-2t. What is so baffling is that when she landed the first flip she doesn't try to do 2t-2t immediately! Sotnikova and flips are just baffling.

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I actually lol-ed at this but thinking about it, it isn't the worst idea.

MEN'S COMPETITION - RESULT & VIDEOS

1. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) - 176.91 Free Skate
2. Takahiko KOZUKA (JPN) - 158.42 Free Skate
3. Jeremy ABBOTT (USA) - 157.70 Free Skate
4. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) - 149.12 Free Skate
5. Jeffrey BUTTLE (CAN) - 127.43 Free Skate
6. Michal BREZINA (CZE) - 125.74 Free Skate

LADIES COMPETITION - RESULT & VIDEOS

1. Mao ASADA (JPN) - 135.16 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
2. Joannie ROCHETTE (CAN) - 123.99 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
3. Ashley WAGNER (USA) - 119.77 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
4. Adelina SOTNIKOVA (RUS) - 105.95 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
5. Kanako MURAKAMI (JPN) - 102.15 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
6. Irina SLUTSKAYA (RUS) - 69.24 Free Skate, 2nd Copy

CanadianSkaterGuy said:

Maybe she's the type of competitor who actually wants to challenge herself and keep her content high? Why should 3-3 be attempted when many skaters have 50-50 success rates or worse? Adelina's flip does give her problems but that's still a jump she feels comfortable performing. Liza has messed up many a 3lz, or 3z-3t, and yet she still goes for them instead of opting for easier jump content.

It's a silly suggestion to ask her to regress her content in an Olympic year when she will need everything in order to get a decent placing or threaten for bronze.

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This is becoming a Moby Dick situation! Sotnikova and flips and of course flips are the white whale! She needs to just move forward or radical start redoing everything with the whole technique of flip. I know she likes the flip but its so destructive for 3 jump combos and consistency. Like I have said Tarasova is totally involved in all aspects of her skating and in fact every Russian skaters and her big philosophy was just do it until it clicks! Never change anything! She lost to a retired skater. A major competitor from the US and world bronze medalist and Olympic silver medalist. Losing to Wagner was the worst part of it! And only barely beating Murakami! Wagner beat her and Rochette and Asada because they haven't loaded up their programs with stuff they are guaranteed to fail on. But that's Sotnikova strategy just fail and fail and maybe at the Olympics it will work. She needs 3S-2t-2t. No she needs to be Ahab.

tulosai said:

I actually lol-ed at this but thinking about it, it isn't the worst idea.

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She needs new ideas and strategies because she's trying to do free skates that she can't and make her fail in almost every competition she enters.

Li'Kitsu said:

Good lord... this was discussed to death last season, and you still need to make some argument out of some completly imaginery numbers?
Yes, her success rate is pretty low, but counted together last season it was about 50% - by far not 25%. What the hell :sarcasm:

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But issues with 3f cost her 3 jump combos and led to Zayaking a number of times so that's even more costly. Her success rate with 3s is almost perfect. 1 point in BV is not worth that big of a risk. If she's still doing 7 triples, her BV will be competitive regardless of if she is repeating 3lo and 3s. She has good spins, footwork, PCS...trying for two 3f and a 2a-3t with that scary technique she has on the 3f and 2a is just poor judgement. The queen Yuna Kim is no longer doing 2a-3t, does not do 3lo, and repeats 3s instead of 3f because 3f is her "nemesis" jump - Adelina should take a page out of her book and apply the same strategy. Honestly, this should be her layout.

3lz-3t
3f
3s
x3lo-2t-2lo
x3s-2t
x3lo
x2a

7 triples, one 3f not in combination, one 2a not in combination, 3lutz in combo with 3t instead of 3lo which likely means < instead of <<, 4 jumping passes in the 2nd half, 2 combos in the 2nd half, both 3lo in the 2nd half and neither of them on the back end of a lutz which is likely to get downgraded. And should she miss a combo earlier on having 3lo and 2a as her last 2 jumping passes gives her room to tack on a combo late. This is honestly a much smarter layout than her current one. Anyone else agree?

Fernandez - BRING THE CHAPLIN PROGRAM BACK. That program is a masterpiece. This new program is forgettable. Congrats on being the Quad King right now, though.

Kozuka - Very nice performance. I wish him the best, although unfortunately his skating hasn't improved the past couple years. He still has amazing basics, but he doesn't take total command over his performances and he is no longer even really offering something unique, like he used to. There used to be a special sensitivity to him (that was sadly under-rewarded), but now it's kind of like he's just trying to tick off all the boxes. Unfortunately other people are ticking them off better.

Abbott - He has watered this program down choreographically since the first time he used it and the music has also been altered, to the detriment of the program. It has an extra, harsher guitar chord overlayed on top of the main music, and this choreography simply doesn't support it, nor does Jeremy's skating.

Takahashi - Oh dear. This program is shapeless, aimless...pointless.

Buttle - Always nice to see him skate, but a better use of his time these days would be sharing a bed with me. He just doesn't care much anymore about seriously training the jumps, so let someone else have his spot for this kind of competition.

Brezina - He's never been that interesting, but this program doesn't do very much for him. His best packaging was in 2012. Both of those programs worked.

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Asada - Overscored. Much of this choreography has little to do with the music. The spiral at the end is hideously misplaced; clearly only there because it's the easiest place to put it in terms of the rules.

Rochette - Very good performance. Not brilliant choreography, but at least it flowed and made sense.

Wagner - The music cut for this program needs to be nearly identical to the Anissina & Peizerat version; would be perfect for her. Currently, it's not pulsing enough. That's the kind of tone which suits her skating the best. The choreography has some nice touches but the overall structure is underwhelming and she really needs a better spiral sequence at the end. Wasted potential. Also, that dress does not help her.

Sotnikova - It was awesome to see her do a FULLY ROTATED 3(f)lutz+3Loop combination! Up through the first spin I was thinking this program would be a good vehicle for her, but it turns into a mess right after that.

Murakami - I hope the program gets better when she is able to skate it cleaner, but I can already tell it's just going to end up being inferior to Yu-Na's 2006 Junior Worlds version. The footwork doesn't make sense with the music. Sigh.

Slutsakya - Why is she here? Completely uncalled for and embarrassing.

jenaj said:

I don't care what the scores were, Joannie had the skate of the night(?) for the ladies. Why isn't she skating for Canada at the Olympics? This program, if she skates it like she did here, is podium-worthy. The music doesn't hurt either--look what it did for Davis and White.

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Agreed. She was absolutely lovely and looked to be in incredible shape. Much prefer her program and skating to Mao's.

silverlake22 said:

But issues with 3f cost her 3 jump combos and led to Zayaking a number of times so that's even more costly. Her success rate with 3s is almost perfect. 1 point in BV is not worth that big of a risk. If she's still doing 7 triples, her BV will be competitive regardless of if she is repeating 3lo and 3s. She has good spins, footwork, PCS...trying for two 3f and a 2a-3t with that scary technique she has on the 3f and 2a is just poor judgement. The queen Yuna Kim is no longer doing 2a-3t, does not do 3lo, and repeats 3s instead of 3f because 3f is her "nemesis" jump - Adelina should take a page out of her book and apply the same strategy. Honestly, this should be her layout.

3lz-3t
3f
3s
x3lo-2t-2lo
x3s-2t
x3lo
x2a

7 triples, one 3f not in combination, one 2a not in combination, 3lutz in combo with 3t instead of 3lo which likely means < instead of <<, 4 jumping passes in the 2nd half, 2 combos in the 2nd half, both 3lo in the 2nd half and neither of them on the back end of a lutz which is likely to get downgraded. And should she miss a combo earlier on having 3lo and 2a as her last 2 jumping passes gives her room to tack on a combo late. This is honestly a much smarter layout than her current one. Anyone else agree?

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You are right with this layout and it would be smart for her to try at least once! What's her teams problem? They don't know anything. Look at her huge pcs buffer at Russian nationals and her good international pcs. She is being held back brutally by her own team with an insane and baffling jump layout which basically indicates all her team are just not working hard to make her excel.

Adelina's coach does seem to be rather scary, I wonder if that's part of the problem. Or maybe she has some obsession with 3f and 3lz-3lo like Mao seemed to have with the 3a for awhile there when she wasn't landing it or rotating it hardly ever and he results were horrible for Mao's ability level. Mao got it together eventually, but she had to go back to the drawing board to do it, add in the 3s, get more comfortable with 3lz and try to improve the flutzing, work on the 2a-3t, keep doing the 3a but only trying it once in the FS and sometimes not at all in the SP, not worrying about doing 3a in combination, etc. And Carolina was able to improve her confidence and consistency by easing up her content and doing what was comfortable, and at this point she's been able to add most of it back in successfully.

Adelina doesn't need to cut out 3f completely, or not try any 3-3 harder than 3t-3t, that's not what I'm saying and I realize she may feel like she's being overly safe if she did that. But her current layout is likely just causing her to stress about that 3f more and more between having it in the SP and 2 in the FS and having to worry about doing one of them in combination or losing out on a combination entirely. Also, have you noticed that Adelina's 2a is consistently better in the SP? I'm not saying the technique isn't scary there, it is, but usually it's a big, powerful jump for her and she lands it fine. Do you think that trying to do 2a-3t and worrying about getting that 3t on the end of that jump in the FS is making her stress and over-think the 2a in the FS and that *might* have something to do with why she's always falling out of her axels in the FS? You get 3 combos in a FS, and she's basically designed her program so that it's unlikely any of them work successfully: the 3lo in the 3lz-3lo is likely to be << or at least <, the 2a-3t only happens about 50% of the time and even when she does it the 3t is likely <, and then the last combo is meant to be 3f-2t-2lo which almost never happens because she usually does the first 3f on it's own and botches the second flip attempt to the point where she can't put a combination on it. So basically, she eats up a 3lo, 3t, and a 3-jump combo with her current layout. Baffling, really.

Mao obsesses about 3a, what does she do, stop trying for 2 in FS, stop worrying about doing it in combination, and looks to get points elsewhere.
Yuna starts getting edge calls and popping 3f, what does she do, change her combo to 3lz-3t and only does one 3f in the FS, not in combination.
Carolina tries for really hard content with 3f-3t and 2a-3t, starts headcasing in competition and isn't even successful with the easy triples, what does she do, ease up the content to something she's comfortable with and then add the difficulty back in when she is not injured and has the confidence to try it again.

TAT said Adelina struggles with injuries...obsessing over jumps and combos that give her issues is not going to help injuries, or anxiety levels, or the overall outcome. Adelina was so happy after her FS at Worlds because she went for all the jumps and combinations she had planned, and the result wasn't even that great because the jumps were flawed because her current layout has far too many ways for her to lose points.

When you achieve a certain level its difficult to tell yourself to drop lower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScHLHx8AMpw

Sotnikova is a great jumper and I'm excited she brought the 3Lz+3Lo back. She should keep the 2Axel+3Toe as well.

The one change that would make sense would be a 3Toe+2Toe+2Lo combo (instead of trying to do it with a Flip). She has an amazing toeloop jump and would be able to do the 3-jump combo most consistently and with the most +GOE that way.