The rest of the top 12 ladies and the Olympics.... | Page 11 | Golden Skate

The rest of the top 12 ladies and the Olympics....

Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
Also as someone mentioned, Gracie was 8 when she started skating, most skaters who wind up competing at the elite level start at a much younger age, so when you think of it that way, although Gracie is 4 years older than Elena Radionova, they actually began skating at the same time/have been skating the same number of years (9-10)
Gracie is 3 years and 4 and half months elder than Elena R.

It may mean not so much.
Serafima Sakhanovch, who is 1 year and 1 month younger than Elena R., started skating at 7. Now she is about the same level as Elena R. a season before (i.e. at same age).
Sakhanovch landed in competition non-URed combo 3S+3T+3T being 12 years and 2 months old (after about 5 years of skating).

Progress of skating is very individual.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
The discussion of ages skaters begin is interesting.

I would guess that successful skaters can being later now that school figures have been eliminated, but I don't have any evidence to support this.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Gracie is 3 years and 4 and half months elder than Elena R.

It may mean not so much.
Serafima Sakhanovch, who is 1 year and 1 month younger than Elena R., started skating at 7. Now she is about the same level as Elena R. a season before (i.e. at same age).
Sakhanovch landed in competition non-URed combo 3S+3T+3T being 12 years and 2 months old (after about 5 years of skating).

Progress of skating is very individual.

I suppose, but the system in Russia is probably different. I was more trying to say, Gracie's relatively "older" age for competing in novice and junior events is understandable given that she was 8 when she started skating. Of course, people progress at different rates and Serafima and Miki are obviously two that progressed very quickly, but it makes sense that Gracie was a 14 year old novice and 15 and 16 year old junior given she had only been skating for 6 and 7-8 years when competing at these levels, where she was landing lots of triples, respectively. Also, Gracie was never one of those wunderkinds landing 3-3s all over the place as a 60 pound tween, she actually seemed to become a better skater and jumper as she grew up and became stronger and more muscular (when Gracie was younger, she used to be more of a petite, waify build, but then became a taller, more muscular, athletic build with puberty, as is often the case, and her skating improved because of this it would seem).
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I suppose, but the system in Russia is probably different. I was more trying to say, Gracie's relatively "older" age for competing in novice and junior events is understandable given that she was 8 when she started skating. Of course, people progress at different rates and Serafima and Miki are obviously two that progressed very quickly, but it makes sense that Gracie was a 14 year old novice and 15 and 16 year old junior given she had only been skating for 6 and 7-8 years when competing at these levels, where she was landing lots of triples, respectively. Also, Gracie was never one of those wunderkinds landing 3-3s all over the place as a 60 pound tween, she actually seemed to become a better skater and jumper as she grew up and became stronger and more muscular (when Gracie was younger, she used to be more of a petite, waify build, but then became a taller, more muscular, athletic build with puberty, as is often the case, and her skating improved because of this it would seem).

Exactly why i'm not impressed with the Russian wonderkinds landing there 3-3 combos at 12-13 because where will they be in 4 years when they don't weight 70 lbs anymore?
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Exactly why i'm not impressed with the Russian wonderkinds landing there 3-3 combos at 12-13 because where will they be in 4 years when they don't weight 70 lbs anymore?

So something is only impressive when it is done by a 16 or 17 hear old or older? Would you abolish the jr competitions and just have senior ones?
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Exactly why i'm not impressed with the Russian wonderkinds landing there 3-3 combos at 12-13 because where will they be in 4 years when they don't weight 70 lbs anymore?

True but it is interesting because some skaters seem to become better when they grow up, while others lose all their jumps and regress. Christina Gao used to fall so much when she was young, but her skating became stronger once she hit her big growthspurt and finally put on some much needed muscle mass. Anna Pogorilaya had much better results this past season compared to the season prior (and I was mistaken before, it was 2010-2011 season she was ill/injured, not 2011-2012), increasing her scores at competition from 140s range to 170s range despite growing around 7 cm and putting on weight in muscle mass, her legs and arms becoming much longer compared to before. Agnes Zawadzki too, was just okay as a younger skater, her results up through Novice level not so great, then the first year in junior when she was 14, she did not make it to Nationals, and the next year she came back stronger than ever, despite a growth spurt that took her from 5'3" to around 5'6", quite tall for a skater especially at that age. Her musculature also became stronger around that age as well, because as a young girl she was extremely wiry and angular, then her muscle definition became very apparent once she burst on the scene in 2010-2011 season. So I think it really depends on the skater, not all are at their best at 13 and 70 lbs.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
I suppose, but the system in Russia is probably different.
Not system but situation, which was very bad for skaters who started skating before 2000. Lack of money, coaches, ice - lack of all.
Because of this Russia has very few female skaters born before 1996, for now only Leonova.
And also because of this we see "younger - better", they simply started at better circumstance.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
Anna Pogorilaya had much better results this past season compared to the season prior (and I was mistaken before, it was 2010-2011 season she was ill/injured, not 2011-2012)
Correction.
She lost 2009/2010 season. She did not compete all that season.
At 2010/2011 she had scores at most about 120, at 2011/2012 about 140, at 2012/2013 (at Nationals level) about 170.
Info from http://www.fskate.ru/skaters/128.html (Russian language).
 

vera01

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
I suppose, but the system in Russia is probably different. I was more trying to say, Gracie's relatively "older" age for competing in novice and junior events is understandable given that she was 8 when she started skating. Of course, people progress at different rates and Serafima and Miki are obviously two that progressed very quickly, but it makes sense that Gracie was a 14 year old novice and 15 and 16 year old junior given she had only been skating for 6 and 7-8 years when competing at these levels, where she was landing lots of triples, respectively. Also, Gracie was never one of those wunderkinds landing 3-3s all over the place as a 60 pound tween, she actually seemed to become a better skater and jumper as she grew up and became stronger and more muscular (when Gracie was younger, she used to be more of a petite, waify build, but then became a taller, more muscular, athletic build with puberty, as is often the case, and her skating improved because of this it would seem).

It is true. Japan/Russia have similar training system.

Russia/Japan allows younger skaters to compete at both Jr.Nationals and senior Nationals in same season. US/Canada, as far as I know, does not allow a skater to compete at both Nationals. I think it is also a reason why nowadays junior competitions are dominated by Russians, yet Americans/Canadians seem to make themselves known to the world as a senior rather than a junior.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Country
Russia
It is true. Japan/Russia have similar training system.

Russia/Japan allows younger skaters to compete at both Jr.Nationals and senior Nationals in same season. US/Canada, as far as I know, does not allow a skater to compete at both Nationals.
Now situation is changed in Russia.
Only skaters who are 14 and elder will be at SrNats.
Only skaters who are 13 and eler - in JrNats.
Skater may take place only as Senior or Junior (not both) in Russian Cup Events, which are qualifiers to Nationals.

So only Junior Grand Prix finalists and Senior Grand Prix Events participants may take place both in Senior and Junior Nationals (no other way to qualify to both).
As fo official documents - only Junior Grand Prix finalists may. But in fact, I believe, Radionova (who is not eligible by age for ISU Senior Championships) and other young Senior Grand Prix participants, who will not qualify to Euro, will be at Junior Nationals to qualify to JrWorlds.

US/Canada, btw, send to JrWorlds best of SrNats skaters, who are age eligible and did not qualify to 4CC/Worlds. And the same about Junior Grand Prix Events - best of SrNats, who are age eligible and have not GP Events.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Correction.
She lost 2009/2010 season. She did not compete all that season.
At 2010/2011 she had scores at most about 120, at 2011/2012 about 140, at 2012/2013 (at Nationals level) about 170.
Info from http://www.fskate.ru/skaters/128.html (Russian language).

Oh wow thanks for the information. So really, her rapid improvement has gone on for a couple of seasons now, very impressive. And at senior Nationals this past season, her score was nearly 177, so that is quite a big jump up in just one season, and especially during prime growing years (I think Anna must have grown at least a few centimeters during the past season because her FS dress was visibly too short by the end of the season, with her long legs it looked a bit silly on her at JW, but earlier in the season, I did not notice the dress being so short).
 

yunabestever

Spectator
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
if they all skated cleanly than the other will be:

4. Kaetlyn Osmond
5. Ashley Wagner
6. Kiira Korpi
7. Akiko Suzuki
8. Kanako Murakami
9. Gracie Gold
10. Julia Lipnitskaia
11. Adelina Sotnikova or Elizaveta Tuktamysheva (whichever makes the team or whoever the 2nd Russian is)

Of those however the most likely to skate clean or close to it are Wagner, Murakami, Lipnitskaia, or Gold. So the likely of orderhood in finish is more like:

4. Wagner
5. Murakami
6. Osmond
7. Lipnitskaia
8. Gold
9. Suzuki
10. Korpi
11. other Russian

As for who can take advantage of mistakes by Kostner or Asada if they happen enough to win a bronze or even silver I feel most likely in order are:

1. Wagner due to combination of consistency and scoring potential
2. Gold same but to lesser degree in both
3. Suzuki since she sometimes can lay it down in big events and has decent scoring potential
4. Lipnitskaia since she is on home ice and is consistent

The rest I either dont see scoring high enough or skating clean enough even possibly to take advantage of what problems Asada and/or Kosner might have to medal.
 

Li'Kitsu

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
yunabestever said:
if they all skated cleanly than the other will be:

4. Kaetlyn Osmond
5. Ashley Wagner
6. Kiira Korpi
7. Akiko Suzuki
8. Kanako Murakami
9. Gracie Gold
10. Julia Lipnitskaia
11. Adelina Sotnikova or Elizaveta Tuktamysheva (whichever makes the team or whoever the 2nd Russian is)

You could completly flip this list and you'd be closer to the truth.
If all those ladies skated cleanly, Wagner would never beat Gold, Osmond wouldn't be the highest ranking, and Sotnikova/Tuktamysheva wouldn't be last.
 

vera01

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
You could completly flip this list and you'd be closer to the truth.
If all those ladies skated cleanly, Wagner would never beat Gold, Osmond wouldn't be the highest ranking, and Sotnikova/Tuktamysheva wouldn't be last.

I agree. I think the placements would be more like this:

4.Gracie Gold
5.Adelina Sotnikova
6.Akiko Suzuki
7.Ashley Wagner
8.Julia Lipnitskaia or Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
9.Kaetlyn Osmond
10.Zijun Li
11.Kanako Murakami
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Gracie needs to show some improvement her performing skills this year to move up and not be so rushed all the time. Actually listening to the music would be a good start and maybe slow her down a bit.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Gracie needs to show some improvement her performing skills this year to move up and not be so rushed all the time. Actually listening to the music would be a good start and maybe slow her down a bit.

Agree. She needs better coreography.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
You could completly flip this list and you'd be closer to the truth.
If all those ladies skated cleanly, Wagner would never beat Gold, Osmond wouldn't be the highest ranking, and Sotnikova/Tuktamysheva wouldn't be last.

Agreed. There's no way that a clean Suzuki would lose to a clean Osmond, for one. Or that a clean Gold would lose to a clean Korpi.

4. Gracie Gold
5. Akiko Suzuki
6. Ashley Wagner
7. Kanako Murakami
8. Adelina Sotnikova/Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
9. Julia Lipnitskaia
10. Kaetlyn Osmond
11. Kiira Korpi
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I have a hard time imagining the 3rd US lady won't make the top 12, unless it's Czisny or Nagasu and they meltdown or have URs galore, respectively. If it's Gao or Zawadzki, which is more likely, I think they'd make the top 12, if not the top 10.
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Agreed. There's no way that a clean Suzuki would lose to a clean Osmond, for one. Or that a clean Gold would lose to a clean Korpi.

4. Gracie Gold
5. Akiko Suzuki
6. Ashley Wagner
7. Kanako Murakami
8. Adelina Sotnikova/Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
9. Julia Lipnitskaia
10. Kaetlyn Osmond
11. Kiira Korpi

I agree. Gracie lost at Cup of Russia narrowly to Korpi mainly because of a sloppy LP. Even in just her second GP event of her career she would have beat Korpi if clean and now with a year under her belt the judges have shown that that will give Gracie the marks.
 
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