Which past US girls to send to Sochi? | Golden Skate

Which past US girls to send to Sochi?

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Everyone seems to agree that our current girls are incapable of bringing home any medal even at their absolute best. So, in the same spirit as the other thread, if you can summon any girls (dead or alive), which 3 would you send to Sochi to snatch a medal from a hypothetical clean Kim, Kostner, and Asada?

I came up with only 3 names, although I'm not even sure if 2 of them are capable of getting the bronze. I'm struggling to find other names because they are just not good enough.

Tonya, Kristi, and Michelle.

Tonya has the 3x3, 3A, incredible speed, decent spins, good skating skills. Should be very competitive. Tonya at her best would be vying for the gold medal.
Kristi has the 3fLutz-3T, 3F, good skating skills. Natural performer. From her pro career, I think she has no problem with getting big PCS. Judges also love Kristi.
Michelle has great skills, another natural performer. Michelle has a flutz, but everything else should be solid enough.
 

blue_idealist

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Feb 25, 2006
I actually think Ashley has a chance of getting maybe a bronze medal, but if I could, I'd send Michelle Kwan along with her. Maybe she could finally get the OGM she dreamed of. If she wasn't available, Tara.
 
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Of course I'd send Kristi and Michelle. Wouldn't that be splendid?

That's an Olympics that would have Americans glued to their TV screens.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
Do you mean take them at their current ages and realistic abilities if they trained, or take them hypothetically at their peak transported to a new time and the advancements that come naturally with chronolology.

I would probably take Yamaguchi, Cohen, and one of Lipinski or Debi Thomas. Cohen scores really well under COP even when she makes mistakes. Yamaguchi would be a fairly strong COP skater and was a great competitor. I always thought Thomas would be suited to COP with her great basics, strong jump combinations, transitions, and very strong elements all around, and I am sure she could learn a triple lutz or triple flip at a later date when it was expected. Lipinski would do well based on sheer difficulty and attack.

Kwan is not a COP skater. Meanwhile you cant rely on Harding to be in good shape or skate well, and she is only in decent shape and skating well in competition like 10% of the tie. The only way I would take her is if you had a promise it was 1991 Harding only or something like that. Lastly Sarah Hughes, ROTFL!!!!!!! Sarah would get KILLED under COP. Now if you mean at their current ages I would take nobody, and just take the current girls. No past skaters aged 30 or over would be competitive coming back at that age, but I presume that is now what you meant.
 

Jammers

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Why pick someone like Cohen who you just know is going to fall once or twice and blow it yet again?
 

snsd

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Nov 30, 2012
Lipinski and Sarah are the easy picks.

If I could have 2003 Michelle she would be next, then I would take a 2010 Mirai or Rachael.
 

FlattFan

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Send them at their absolute best. After all, I'm assuming top 3 will be perfect. Who in the past can snatch medal.
Cohen, I double will come even close to Kwan's scoring potential. Her jumps are tiny, and she has a lot of issues. Her spins aren't particularly strong, COP-wise. They are level 2 or level 3 or something. Her steps aren't strong either. I'm assuming she lands everything.

Under COP, I also don't think it's possible for Tara to match Michelle. Tara would get the kind of PCS the Russians are getting.

COP puts a lot of emphasis on SS, so the girls who are going must at least have competitive SS.
 

mskater93

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Oct 22, 2005
Stellar SS of the past (assuming they could have gotten or had competitive jumps to today's skaters): Kwan, Thomas, Harding (fully trained), Chin, Lynn, Yamaguchi, Kadavy
 

FlattFan

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Hmm, maybe Chin would be competitive as well. I remember she put out a few 3As in practice, and those look really good.
Which of them can pull out a 7 triples program?
I don't think 6 clean triples from these girls can beat a 6 clean triples Yuna or 7 clean triples Caro.
 

ForeverFish

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Aug 21, 2012
Michelle for her consistency, Sasha for her artistry, and Tara for her technical difficulty. Throw 1991 Tonya in there and we might have a team that could challenge for the gold medal.
 

tulosai

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Dec 21, 2011
Send them at their absolute best. After all, I'm assuming top 3 will be perfect. Who in the past can snatch medal.
Cohen, I double will come even close to Kwan's scoring potential. Her jumps are tiny, and she has a lot of issues. Her spins aren't particularly strong, COP-wise. They are level 2 or level 3 or something. Her steps aren't strong either. I'm assuming she lands everything.

You must live in a different universe than me. Cohen's spins are definitely capable of being level 4 (at her best). She has just the kind of freaky flexibility necessary to pull off most of the COP spins everyone is doing. Her steps were actually pretty strong under COP. Could get level 3 for sure. Her jumps aren't huge, but they had good flow in and out when landed and she is very capable of doing transitions in and out of them. She has flutz problems but she does not have UR problems. (again, at her best) I actually think as a skater she is uniquely well suited to COP because her garish falls would not be penalized as much.
 

pangtongfan

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Lipinski and Sarah are the easy picks.
.

Again why on earth is anyone even considering Sarah. Sarah's 2002 Olympic winning performance (her best ever would look something like this:

2 axel- 0.7 GOE
triple salchow<-triple loop<<
triple lutz-double toe E -2 GOE
triple flip -1 GOE
triple toe-triple loop<
triple toe- 0 GOE

Her short programs were never any good and would be lucky to be top 10 in todays strong field, and then her long would have about 3 credited triples in COP eyes. It is simply a joke anyone would pick her as one of the 20 first past Americans one would choose to send to an all time U.S Olympics under COP.
 

pangtongfan

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Cohen, I double will come even close to Kwan's scoring potential. Her jumps are tiny, and she has a lot of issues. Her spins aren't particularly strong, COP-wise. They are level 2 or level 3 or something. Her steps aren't strong either. I'm assuming she lands everything.

I am not a Cohen fan but she IS a very strong COP skater. She held the WR scores under COP for many years until Kim broke them. Her spins are excellent under COP, she usually got the most points in spins of any skater. Are you actually implying Kwan's spins under COP would be nearly as strong as Cohen's, LOL! Maybe you typed Cohen and you meant Kwan there, as Kwan is the one who struggles to even get level 2 spins under COP probably. As for steps, her footwork got all level 2s and 3s in the Turin LP, and the most points of anyone, and her spirals speak for themself. Kwan also had outstanding spirals but even struggled on those under COP, getting a level 1 on her spiral sequence in some of the rounds at the 2005 Worlds and seemingly confused what she should be trying to do with it. Granted we never saw a prime Kwan under COP and I am sure she would be reasonably good, but for a better chance to medal in such a strong field under COP I would still take Cohen. Not that I think either would medal over a perfect Kostner or perfect Asada (I wont even mention Kim who is too consistent and far out of both their reach under COP), but I think Cohen would be the one more likely to capatilize on any mistakes from Kostner and Asada, and one or both are likely to make quite a few mistakes at the Games given their history. Of course if it were 6.0 I would take Kwan over Cohen in a heartbeat.

As for Harding how can one guarantee her skating even close to her best even taking a time of her career she is supposably at her best. This is Harding we are speaking of. Does this fantasy include a button that guarantees said skater skating their best. I would take Harding for sure if one could guarantee her 91 National or Skate America performances, or even say her 86 Skate America or 89 National performance, but otherwise no way. She can easily just come out and do only 2 triples at any given time. Dont get me wrong, I love Tonya's skating but she was incredibly irregular at producing even close to her best even in her so called best years.
 

pangtongfan

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Transported from another time, and assuming that born at a different time they would have a full set of triples, and even some difficult combinations, which given how athletic and technically sound they were I believe they would have, I would actually take Dorothy Hamill and Janet Lynn over practically anyone. Both had amazing skating skills, perhaps the best ever. Both had great spins, especialy Hamill. Spirals and footwork, and great programs with lots of transitions to satisfy COP details. Lots of combinations and difficult entrances into elements. Good quality jumps, and atleast Lynn amazing interpretation and performance qualities (Hamill did not get those so much until she was pro). I think both would be fab transported into a COP environment in another time, assuming again they get the hard jumps which given that both were the best jumpers of their own time I think they definitely would have in a much later time.
 

pangtongfan

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One last point is the judges never cared about Cohen's weaker skating skills. At the Turin Olympics she had basically the same SS as Slutskaya and Arakawa, and above everyone else including people like Suguri and Rochette who have way better basic skating. They were only slightly below her other PC categories. That is ridiculous really, but it also shows the judges couldnt be bothered that much to mark down her poorer skating skills and basically disregarded them.
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
I am not a Cohen fan but she IS a very strong COP skater. She held the WR scores under COP for many years until Kim broke them. Her spins are excellent under COP, she usually got the most points in spins of any skater. Are you actually implying Kwan's spins under COP would be nearly as strong as Cohen's, LOL! Maybe you typed Cohen and you meant Kwan there, as Kwan is the one who struggles to even get level 2 spins under COP probably. As for steps, her footwork got all level 2s and 3s in the Turin LP, and the most points of anyone, and her spirals speak for themself. Kwan also had outstanding spirals but even struggled on those under COP, getting a level 1 on her spiral sequence in some of the rounds at the 2005 Worlds and seemingly confused what she should be trying to do with it. Granted we never saw a prime Kwan under COP and I am sure she would be reasonably good, but for a better chance to medal in such a strong field under COP I would still take Cohen. Not that I think either would medal over a perfect Kostner or perfect Asada (I wont even mention Kim who is too consistent and far out of both their reach under COP), but I think Cohen would be the one more likely to capatilize on any mistakes from Kostner and Asada, and one or both are likely to make quite a few mistakes at the Games given their history.

As for Harding how can one guarantee her skating even close to her best even taking a time of her career she is supposably at her best. This is Harding we are speaking of. Does this fantasy include a button that guarantees said skater skating their best. I would take Harding for sure if one could guarantee her 91 National or Skate America performances, or even say her 86 Skate America or 89 National performance, but otherwise no way. She can easily just come out and do only 2 triples at any given time. Dont get me wrong, I love Tonya's skating but she was incredibly irregular at producing even close to her best even in her so called best years.

I do think Wagner and or Gold could medal but probably not both short of a melt down by several of the top skaters - Yuna, Mao and Carolyn. They could skate clean and beat some errors of say Carolina or Mao. Cohen is definitely a COP Skater like Chan almost but not as strong. Yeah, at their best it is hard to say unless the skaters did COP. Michelle would lose levels on spins and spirals and stuff and her jumps aren't really huge either. Not sure about Debi my lasting impression of her was someone who didn't want to skate once the gold was gone and she ended on a debi downer being beaten by a perking and pleasing and pleasant Liz Manley
 

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
You must live in a different universe than me. Cohen's spins are definitely capable of being level 4 (at her best). She has just the kind of freaky flexibility necessary to pull off most of the COP spins everyone is doing. Her steps were actually pretty strong under COP.

Here's the SP at the Olympics where she skated her best. Out of 3 spins, one is a level 3. Compare to her direct competitors at the time, Irina and Shizuka, both got level 4 on all 3 spins. So much for being called the spinner.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2006/OWG06_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

Here's the LP at the Olympics
http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2006/OWG06_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
Again, Shizuka got level 4 on all spins. Cohen, a level 2, a level 3, and a level 4. Irina had 2 level 4 and one level 3.

So you see, her spins aren't so special. She got beat by 2 other girls in spins in both phases of competition. Freaky flexibility doesn't get you levels.

Her steps, again, the TES panel didn't bother looking at her edge during the step sequence, it is so much weaker than the other 2. It's ridiculous that she got the kind of score she got for steps and spirals.
 

FlattFan

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I am not a Cohen fan but she IS a very strong COP skater. She held the WR scores under COP for many years until Kim broke them. Her spins are excellent under COP, she usually got the most points in spins of any skater.
This is not exactly true. Her WR under COP was during the inflation period. She would not get that kind of score even with a quintuple axel.
Another fallacy regarding Cohen is her amazing spins. No, she did not get the most points in spins ever. Her direct competitors always beat her in spins.


Are you actually implying Kwan's spins under COP would be nearly as strong as Cohen's, LOL! Maybe you typed Cohen and you meant Kwan there, as Kwan is the one who struggles to even get level 2 spins under COP probably.
Kwan could get level 3 on all her spins. Maybe mostly level 3 and one level 4 for combo. Rachael Flatt regularly got level 4 spins, so I don't think it's impossible for Kwan to get it.

As for steps, her footwork got all level 2s and 3s in the Turin LP, and the most points of anyone, and her spirals speak for themself. Kwan also had outstanding spirals but even struggled on those under COP, getting a level 1 on her spiral sequence in some of the rounds at the 2005 Worlds and seemingly confused what she should be trying to do with it.
Kwan should have picked a coach who understands COP. There's no way if she holds the spiral a bit longer, she wouldn't be able to get level 3 at least. I mean, Miki Ando and Flatt got level 4 in spirals. Not exactly hard to get if you follow the recipe for level 4.

As for Harding how can one guarantee her skating even close to her best even taking a time of her career she is supposably at her best. This is Harding we are speaking of. Does this fantasy include a button that guarantees said skater skating their best. I would take Harding for sure if one could guarantee her 91 National or Skate America performances, or even say her 86 Skate America or 89 National performance, but otherwise no way.

Well, if Harding can repeat one of her 91 National, wouldn't you say she's competitive for the gold medal? Say 3A, 3Lz, 3T3T in the SP. And then just 7 triples in the LP.
 
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