Olympic comebacks | Golden Skate

Olympic comebacks

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Jenny and Dave over at TSL released this gem on 6/30:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf5zR0fqZzg

Beginning to end, it's full of interesting news:

-The French federation is, apparently, serious about Anissina's comeback.

-Miki Ando also appears to be gunning for a return (this was before the news about her baby came out -- I wonder what they'll have to say about that).

-Alissa Czisny's return/having to compete at Regionals/possibly getting the SA assignment

-Ashley Wagner's coaching situation

-Russian drama -- Carolina has been banned from Mishin's camps for "sharing secrets," and Plushenko has asked Mishin to restrict his students to Russians only (did anyone else know about this?)

-Gracie Gold's new technical content/perhaps trying to intimidate Ashley


Enjoy!
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Kostner was banned?!

Didn't fernandez learn some quad info from mishin? Ten too?
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/621286
This is completely normal sports policies, as in all other national representations....

Camp manager Kirsty Kull:
Before, here coming Carolina Kostner... But this year, Alexei refused her. (this is not true - she was there much earlier, 4-5 years before, and not in Pinzolo - than in Germany camp). He does not want to train russians rivals ahead of the Olympics. Believes that it is dishonorable. Not everything is measured by money...
....

Alexei Mishin:
- No, I refused Costner for another reason. Basically, I have decided to no longer work with strong foreign skaters. Because, back from our camps, Carolina Kostner all passes to her coach. And we do not need that.
Last season was and Javier Fernandez. (in Spain camp) And Zhenya Plushenko rightly remarked to me: "Alexei Nikolaevich, what he is doing here?" But with young foreigners i'm working on.....


Mishin teach to jump Javier, Lambiel, Caro...I understand Mishin and Plushy, this is completely normal sports policies.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
They seem to think Ando even considering a comeback is hilarious, that her chances suck the big one, and they have no idea what she could possibly be thinking to even want to come back at this stage. First time I have agreed with them on something yet.
 

BlackPack

Medalist
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
They seem to think Ando even considering a comeback is hilarious, that her chances suck the big one, and they have no idea what she could possibly be thinking to even want to come back at this stage. First time I have agreed with them on something yet.

Dave calling Miki's comeback attempt as a termite problem...
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Dave calling Miki's comeback attempt as a termite problem...

I love the skating lesson but the moments when it feels like they are attacking or seriously criticising someone by Dave are uncomfortable.

Ashley Wagner- nationals recap, worlds, summer shows, coaching situation
Ross miner
The shibutanis
Miki Ando
Tessa and Scott at 4continents
Bobrova soloviev at worlds
 

babayaga

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
They seem to think Ando even considering a comeback is hilarious, that her chances suck the big one, and they have no idea what she could possibly be thinking to even want to come back at this stage. First time I have agreed with them on something yet.
I listened to one of their videos and I'm not watching it again. It wasn't bad, but I found it was completely empty of any in-depth analysis. They were just saying basic things , making trivial observations, people on forums usually have a lot more interesting things to say than what I heard from those two. So I am not surprised they were borderline insulting to their non-favorite: if you lack substance you have to attract the viewers somehow.
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Jenny and Dave over at TSL released this gem on 6/30:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf5zR0fqZzg

Beginning to end, it's full of interesting news:

-Russian drama -- Carolina has been banned from Mishin's camps for "sharing secrets," and Plushenko has asked Mishin to restrict his students to Russians only (did anyone else know about this?)

-Gracie Gold's new technical content/perhaps trying to intimidate Ashley


Enjoy!


It might be drama for you, but for Carolina and Liza it will be battle for gold medal in Sochi.
As for men, Mishin has Plushenko, Gachinsky, both contenders for medals next year. His hand are full this time.

How many foreign champions and medalists Mishin trained to jump, Kostner, Mayer, Rochett, Sebastian, Javier, Lambiel, Korpi..
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
They seem to think Ando even considering a comeback is hilarious, that her chances suck the big one, and they have no idea what she could possibly be thinking to even want to come back at this stage. First time I have agreed with them on something yet.

She is 2011 World champion, to think that her chances suck the big one is kind of suck the big one.:p
 

vera01

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
It might be drama for you, but for Carolina and Liza it will be battle for gold medal in Sochi.
As for men, Mishin has Plushenko, Gachinsky, both contenders for medals next year. His hand are full this time.

How many foreign champions and medalists Mishin trained to jump, Kostner, Mayer, Rochett, Sebastian, Javier, Lambiel, Korpi..

Liza would battle for gold in Sochi? Where's Yuna and Mao?

I also doubt that Gachinsky or even Plushenko would be a medal contender next year, but since you've said that it would be a drama...
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
It might be drama for you, but for Carolina and Liza it will be battle for gold medal in Sochi.
As for men, Mishin has Plushenko, Gachinsky, both contenders for medals next year. His hand are full this time.

How many foreign champions and medalists Mishin trained to jump, Kostner, Mayer, Rochett, Sebastian, Javier, Lambiel, Korpi..

Since when was Liza battling for GOLD in Sochi?!?!?! :unsure: The Olympics are in Russia and all, but...come now. I don't even recall Carolina having a big leg up over Yuna and Mao (remember them?).

Regardless, it's an interesting conflict, so...by definition, drama.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
She is 2011 World champion, to think that her chances suck the big one is kind of suck the big one.:p

By the time Sochi arrives, 2011 will have been 3 years ago. So much has changed in the skating world, and Miki has been gone for so long that she might not even compare to the lower-top tier of girls like Gracie, Kanako, and Ashley. Not to mention she just had a baby, which had to have taken a significant physical toll on her body.

The JSF has also said that Miki must WIN Japanese Nationals to qualify for the Olympics. With the incredibly strong ladies' field in Japan right now, this will be a HUGE, if not impossible, task (beating Mao, Kanako, AND Akiko? Not likely).
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
It might be drama for you, but for Carolina and Liza it will be battle for gold medal in Sochi.

Liza just might be considered a bronze or silver medal (the latter less likely) contender, perhaps, but she definetely will not battle for gold medal. Nobody is who has not stood on the Worlds podium earlier.
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Liza just might be considered a bronze or silver medal (the latter less likely) contender, perhaps, but she definetely will not battle for gold medal. Nobody is who has not stood on the Worlds podium earlier.

:rolleye:

ISU changed the rule?



Liza has text book jumps, her programs packed with transitions, and if she skates clean only clean Carolina can beat her. Yuna needs to improve transitions and speed, Mao needs to work on her jump techniques.
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Liza would battle for gold in Sochi? Where's Yuna and Mao?

I also doubt that Gachinsky or even Plushenko would be a medal contender next year, but since you've said that it would be a drama...

Since when Plushenko and Gachinsky are not medal contenders? What is so drama about it?
And why Liza wouldn't battle for gold? She has best jumps, presentation, interpretation, her programs full of transitions, and if she skates clean only clean Carolina can beat her. Liza’s presentation/interpretation and energy are 10 times better then both Yuna and Mao together. Liza needs to be judged properly on her second mark.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Since when Plushenko and Gachinsky are not medal contenders? What is so drama about it?
And why Liza wouldn't battle for gold? She has best jumps, presentation, interpretation, her programs full of transitions, and if she skates clean only clean Carolina can beat her. Liza’s presentation/interpretation and energy are 10 times better then both Yuna and Mao together. Liza needs to be judged properly on her second mark.

It's okay for you to be a Liza fan, but to suggest that Liza is better than Yuna and Mao, together, times 10?! She doesn't need to be judged properly on her 2nd mark, she needs to actually land her jumps to give herself a shot at the top 5. No matter how high her PCS mark was at Worlds, even if she got the highest PCS, she wouldn't have come close to the podium. I don't understand how anyone looking at her last season would think she'd have a shot against Carolina/Mao/Yu Na. Only a clean Carolina (and maybe Mao) can beat a Yu Na, pending Yu Na has errors. Liza has an outside shot at bronze, and a clean Mao/Yu Na/Carolina will easily box her out. Look at their personal best scores and tell me why you would think Tuktamysheva has a shot. She has never even come close to scoring as high as those 3.
 

vera01

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
:rolleye:

ISU changed the rule?



Liza has text book jumps, her programs packed with transitions, and if she skates clean only clean Carolina can beat her. Yuna needs to improve transitions and speed, Mao needs to work on her jump techniques.

Yuna also has textbook jumps, and she's much faster than Liza. It's Liza who needs to improve skating skills-there's a group of skaters ahead of her when it comes to SS.

Liza skated a clean FS at Euros, yet she placed behind both Caro and Adelina. Yuna, when clean, can score around 220 like she did at Worlds. Mao can also score much higher than Liza if she skates clean. How high can Liza score for having two clean programs? Around 195?

Since when Plushenko and Gachinsky are not medal contenders? What is so drama about it? 
And why Liza wouldn't battle for gold? She has best jumps, presentation, interpretation, her programs full of transitions, and if she skates clean only clean Carolina can beat her. Liza’s presentation/interpretation and energy are 10 times better then both Yuna and Mao together. Liza needs to be judged properly on her second mark.

Gachinsky wasn't even at this Worlds, was he? He wasn't at WTT, either. Gachinsky was not a medal conender ever since he placed 18th at last year's Worlds.

Liza is being judged properly. Her poor SS causes her PCS to be low.

We can't even say for sure that Liza would make the Olympic team. Gracie is much more likely than Liza to win an OGM IMO.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Since when Plushenko and Gachinsky are not medal contenders? What is so drama about it?
And why Liza wouldn't battle for gold? She has best jumps, presentation, interpretation, her programs full of transitions, and if she skates clean only clean Carolina can beat her. Liza’s presentation/interpretation and energy are 10 times better then both Yuna and Mao together. Liza needs to be judged properly on her second mark.

Let's put it this way.

A clean Yuna (more and more common) can score above 70 in the SP and above 150 in the FS. Her combined total can be in the upper 220's, a la Vancouver 2010.

A clean Carolina can score above 70 in the SP and in the upper 130's in the FS. Her combined total can be above 200. Judges have shown that, even with major mistakes, Carolina will still score in the upper 60's in the SP and the lower 130's in the FS.

A clean Mao can score above 70 in the SP and in the 140's in the FS. Her combined total (a la Vancouver 2010) can be above 210. Even with significant mistakes, like at 2013 Worlds, she's still within range of breaking 200.

We don't know how high a clean Liza would score in the SP, because not a SINGLE ONE of her SP's this season earned more than 60 points. At Euros, her perfectly clean long program scored in the lower 130's -- in the same place that Carolina and Mao are with multiple errors. She was beat by both Adelina and Carolina. At Worlds, she finished lowest of the younger girls. Gracie, Kaetlyn, and Adelina are outstripping her at a pace reminiscent of Yuna versus Mao in 2009/2010.

If Akiko Suzuki had skated a decent FS at 2013 Worlds, Liza would have finished out of the top ten. Period.

Liza's skating skills aren't even in the same galaxy as Yuna's, Mao's, and Carolina's. She'll raise her PCS the same way that everyone else does -- by improving. Until then, to suggest that she can challenge for gold in Sochi is ridiculous. Right now, Liza should be focusing on beating one of Adelina or Julia L at RN to qualify for the Olympics, because even making the team isn't a guarantee with the up-and-down season she's just finished.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Since when Plushenko and Gachinsky are not medal contenders? What is so drama about it?
And why Liza wouldn't battle for gold? She has best jumps, presentation, interpretation, her programs full of transitions, and if she skates clean only clean Carolina can beat her. Liza’s presentation/interpretation and energy are 10 times better then both Yuna and Mao together. Liza needs to be judged properly on her second mark.

Care to explain how this scenario can come about? And no, assertions that she's under-marked in PCS are not explanations.

Liza has the best jumps? Hardly, her technique is clean, but her jumps are tiny and she's nowhere near as fast as Yuna or Carolina. Her skating skills are also lacking. Her skating is slow with many cross-overs. I find it laughable that you think Yuna needs to work on her speed to catch up to Liza. Now her presentation is good, but 10x better than Mao and Yuna put together?
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
It is not written in the rules that ando must win nationals to go to Sochi. The rules are so broad and non specific that of course ando can go to Sochi even if she doesn't win nationals and she can win Japanese nationals with no 3/3 too over the current field. So even if you think for some odd reason that ando must win nationals to go well That is very possible.

Unfortunately for her lizas position as premiere jumping bean in skating has been taken by Gracie gold.
 
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