Ashley Wagner on The Skating Lesson | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Ashley Wagner on The Skating Lesson

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Sorry, I can't hop on board with the Dave-hate! I think he has some quite perceptive & interesting things to say (when not gossiping). For example, recently he & Jenny were discussing Gracie and her artistry. And they were trying to analyze just what is lacking. Jenny said Gracie needed to "connect her soul" to the programs. And Dave commented that although there's nothing WRONG with Gracie's positions or movements, she just lacks that polish & finish that we expect of our American ice queens, and I very much agree. I also loved his point this week about a problem with current skating coverage (I think on Universal Sports & IceNetwork). He pointed out that oftentimes, cameras show the skaters' performance, then skip straight to the kiss 'n cry, without showing the skater as they're coming off the ice and interacting with coaches. Thus we miss seeing the skaters' and coaches' initial reactions, which can reveal much. I think he is so right about this, and it IS one reason that we're not getting to know these skaters as we did in the past.

Anyway, I enjoyed the Ashley interview, she was pretty open and candid! I was amazed that she just came out and admitted she's not a naturally graceful or "artistic" skater! I wouldn't have thought any skater would have been willing to admit that! It actually makes her progress in that area more impressive. I enjoyed her comments about Mr. Nicks and what he's like as a coach. Was especially interested to hear that he focuses a lot on polishing and refining the programs--as she said, finding those special "accent" moments to really reach out to the audience. None of this surprised me, as I feel this is the area where Ashley has improved most since joining him (that & jump consistency). What Nicks has given Ashley is a sense of phrasing in her skating; he has helped her bring out the max in her programs by finding the low & high points and building a narrative and really emphasizing the dramatic points. Prior to him, Ashley just plowed through programs with everything at the same pace. She wasn't really feeling and expressing the different shades of the music. Now she does this very well. (And I think this is also exactly what Gracie needs.)
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
...
And all who criticized her are crazy cat ladies. How original!

It might not of come out well or as clearly as it could have, but I think she was simply trying to distinguish Jenny and Dave's "insults" or critiques (throwing shade) as informed from people (who she called 'crazy cat ladies') whose who throw insults or critiques on discussion boards like this without the benefit of insider knowledge. The age/gender implications of crazy cat ladies might have been and unfortunate choice, but I think she was really talking about Jenny and Dave and why their "insults" or critiques are 'ok' by her.

Anyway, I like the opportunities TSL offers for us to actually hear from skaters and coaches in way more detail than a soundbite...looking forward to more.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Part Two of TSL's Interview with Ashley Wagner (46:09 in length)
Published on Jul 25, 2013
The first half of 2013 was not the easiest time in Ashley Wagner's life. After narrowly defending her national title, she endured a public split with Philip Mills and the semi-retirement of John Nicks. With the Olympic season approaching, Ashley Wagner opens up about her triple-triple woes, new programs, her reaction to Philip Mills' infamous tweet and the impact of social media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdFwnh-JB5o
 

ManyCairns

Medalist
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Country
United-States
FWIW I agree with emma; I thought the "cat ladies who just say your legs are fat" (or whatever the exact words were) example was just a generic or generalized example, not a specific one, to say that she was reasonably open to even Jenny's and Dave's harshest words because of their knowledge of and passion for skating, moreso than she would be (and rightly so IMO) to comments from a random person with no knowledge or background just evaluating her body features.

I was impressed with Ashley overall; though in some ways her persona and mannerisms are a little young for her age, I really do think that comes from all the social media-ing we as a population do. I use a lot more youthtful slang than I should because I am exposed to it on discussion boards and forums, and a lot of the active "interwebz" users are younger, not to mention the general casualness of speech and mannerisms used in social media. But darn, the young woman really did endure just blow after blow in terms of her training and support systems right before probably the most critical season of her career, and I have to express my admiration (see, I started to write "give her props" and changed it) for the way she is trying to find new alternatives and keep moving forward positively and with great focus.

Also, whereas I do think it was wishful thinking on her part, I wasn't offended by her comments about wishing she had been named to the World team in 2010. She didn't sound hugely entitled to me, just heartbroken that the outcome of her season didn't come close in her mind to matching what she felt she had put on the ice overall during the entire course of the season.

Anyway, this extended interview has made me a fan. As I said, Ashley really has met some huge pre-season challenges with a great deal of maturity and tried to be positive and keep moving forward despite losing much of her coaching staff and even facing some loss of personal support, too (she mentioned a breakup, plus continuing to live far away from family). I don't think I would have been that coolheaded in the face of that many upheavals at age 22.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I like her honesty in her answers. I hate her delusion in some of her answers. But you can only gauge that when she honestly tells you what she thinks.

Anyway, good luck to her and her 3x3. I think with 3x3, she's in a 4th place at the Olympics. Without 3x3, she can fall back as low as 9th. There are quite a few girls who can beat her if they skate clean. Akiko, Kanako, Adelina, Liza, Gracie, Kaetlyn.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
...

And all who criticized her are crazy cat ladies. How original!

I am truly offended!

Ashley should know better...there are just as many crazy cat gentlemen as ladies! What must she be thinking!?
 

Cherryy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
I like her honesty in her answers. I hate her delusion in some of her answers. But you can only gauge that when she honestly tells you what she thinks.

Anyway, good luck to her and her 3x3. I think with 3x3, she's in a 4th place at the Olympics. Without 3x3, she can fall back as low as 9th. There are quite a few girls who can beat her if they skate clean. Akiko, Kanako, Adelina, Liza, Gracie, Kaetlyn.

Which answers did you find delusional? Not questioning it, just curious.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Anyway, good luck to her and her 3x3. I think with 3x3, she's in a 4th place at the Olympics. Without 3x3, she can fall back as low as 9th. There are quite a few girls who can beat her if they skate clean. Akiko, Kanako, Adelina, Liza, Gracie, Kaetlyn.

Your range is probably accurate, although she (or possibly a few others) could finish as high as 2nd if Mao and Carolina bomb. Carolina in particular has underperformed at previous Olympics and Mao can be great or very shaky on the jumps.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Which answers did you find delusional? Not questioning it, just curious.

She said she deserved to go to World in 2010. If she's said she wished they'd sent her to World, that's fine. But deserved? No!

Has Gracie ever come out and said "look look, this is the Gold lutz?" If she did, I'm annoyed by Gracie. If she didn't, I'm annoyed by Ashley for dragging Gracie into something that has nothing to do with anything.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Your range is probably accurate, although she (or possibly a few others) could finish as high as 2nd if Mao and Carolina bomb. Carolina in particular has underperformed at previous Olympics and Mao can be great or very shaky on the jumps.

I highly doubt someone can overtake both Caro and Mao. One might bomb, but both bomb, and bomb badly enough to have someone else sneak in for silver is just impossible.

The way I see it is, Caro is jockeying Joannie's position this time around. Both are silver medalists at the preceding World. Caro is also former WC, seen as a much better skater than Joannie. They will make sure she's on the podium. Her SP score will be out of this world and keep the rest of them out of touch. Just like Joannie hitting 72 or something for a 3x2 and 3F. In the LP, even with 4 triples, I don't see her scoring anything less than 130.

Ashley with 3x3, will be a few points behind Caro in the SP. With 3x3 in the LP, might be 130+. She would have to skate 2 incredible programs back to back to catch a really flawed Caro. Again, they might slap her with a downgrade or two to make sure in the case when Caro/Mao aren't clean, she couldn't catch them. Just like Flatt back in the day.

Same with Gracie. She could be jockeying Mirai's position. Skate perfectly in both phases and still come in 4th.

There are a lot of good will for the top 3. Their TES are among the top. Their PCS will rise considerably next year. I just don't see anyone else getting a silver.
 

ucrgirl

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
It sounds like Ashley has a realistic view of what she is up against in terms of being on the Olympic podium. These TSL interviews always make me root for a skater, even if they previously had not been a favorite. Hope she has time to get the 3X3. Tom Z said that you need to have the jumps trained and ready in July. Although it sounds like Ashley's issues are nerves/technique not ability.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
She said she deserved to go to World in 2010. If she's said she wished they'd sent her to World, that's fine. But deserved? No!

Has Gracie ever come out and said "look look, this is the Gold lutz?" If she did, I'm annoyed by Gracie. If she didn't, I'm annoyed by Ashley for dragging Gracie into something that has nothing to do with anything.

I think Gracie and her coach made jokes about how it's the "Gold Lutz," but she seems perfectly aware that the invention of the jump belongs to Adam Rippon. Besides, she never jumps it in competition, so it's not very relevant to Ashley.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Has Gracie ever come out and said "look look, this is the Gold lutz?" If she did, I'm annoyed by Gracie. If she didn't, I'm annoyed by Ashley for dragging Gracie into something that has nothing to do with anything.

I think Gracie and her coach made jokes about how it's the "Gold Lutz," but she seems perfectly aware that the invention of the jump belongs to Adam Rippon. Besides, she never jumps it in competition, so it's not very relevant to Ashley.

Ashley didn't drag Gracie into anything; TSL asked her if she had seen Gracie's instagram practice videos. Ashley replied that she said she only saw them because Adam showed them to her and was like :unsure:. So it wasn't like Ashley suddenly mentioned Gracie; it was that she'd been asked about Gracie and Ashley told them what Adam said, and how she felt about the whole situation (the move being super-unofficially named the "Gold Lutz") without pageant-queening her words.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Ashley didn't drag Gracie into anything; TSL asked her if she had seen Gracie's instagram practice videos. Ashley replied that she said she only saw them because Adam showed them to her and was like :unsure:. So it wasn't like Ashley suddenly mentioned Gracie; it was that she'd been asked about Gracie and Ashley told them what Adam said, and how she felt about the whole situation (the move being super-unofficially named the "Gold Lutz") without pageant-queening her words.

Do you understand what she said?
She said as if she does the Bielmann and call it a Wagner. And said you don't do that kind of thing.
Since it's a non-issue, why is she talking like it's an issue?

When I watched it, I thought Gold had the nerve to run around and tell people her lutz is Gold lutz. Since Gold didn't do it, why is she talking as if Gold said it. Adam might have shown her the clips, but was it necessary to include her own take in it?
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Do you understand what she said?

I would like to think that I perfectly understood what she said, yes. Did you?

I'm not justifying anything she said, but at the same time, it wasn't as if she'd brought or "dragged" the topic of Gracie up; she just added to it.


When I watched it, I thought Gold had the nerve to run around and tell people her lutz is Gold lutz. Since Gold didn't do it, why is she talking as if Gold said it. Adam might have shown her the clips, but was it necessary to include her own take in it?

As ForeverFish has already mentioned above:

  1. IceNetwork.com: Gold rips off perfect 'Rippon Lutz' at Skate Detroit
    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120728&content_id=35744346&vkey=ice_news
    The two skaters engaged in a good-natured battle on Twitter, with Gold musing the move should be re-named the "Gold" Lutz and Rippon replying, "I'll be sending a bill in the mail."
  2. USAToday: Gracie Gold is ready for big stage at nationals
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2013/01/23/gracie-gold-ready-for-nationals/1860325/
    In a near flawless run-through of her short program during practice on Wednesday, Gold was particularly pleased with her "Gold lutz" which is a "Rippon lutz" (a triple lutz with both hands raised above the head, named after U.S. skater Adam Rippon).

    "We call it a 'Gold lutz' because I'm a female and Adam Rippon is a guy," she said with a smile. "That's what Adam and I negotiated."
It seemed to me to be a harmless joke, but Gracie did say it. Clearly, Adam showed Ashley something along the lines of this. Otherwise, she wouldn't have talked about it. Was Ashley wrong to exaggerate? I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Anyway, I like both Ashley and Gracie. They have grit and fiYAH. I wish them both the best.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Looks like gracie said it as a joke but adam didn't seem to think so. Ashley definitely does not think so because she said she wouldn't call a Biellman a Wagner. She wasn't amused by Gracie.

anyway, was it necessary? Did you understand this fine nuance? :)
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Looks like gracie said it as a joke but adam didn't seem to think so. Ashley definitely does not think so because she said she wouldn't call a Biellman a Wagner. She wasn't amused by Gracie.

anyway, was it necessary? Did you understand this fine nuance? :)

So what does it prove? That she's a bad sport? A bad person in general? Someone you wouldn't want to be friends with? That people are stupid for being her fan? What's the point in such tedious dissection of her words?
 

ManyCairns

Medalist
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Country
United-States
Since Adam is her very close friend and roommate, and he wasn't amused, Ashley isn't likely to be and is also likely to be loyal to her friend when asked about it. Was she a little snarky? Yes, just a little. But, Gracie also DID say it, about Adam's move, and again, Ashley is going to be a big Adam supporter. And again, Jenny and Dave brought it up, not Ashley.

Pretty minor "trash talking" all in all, to me.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
So what does it prove? That she's a bad sport? A bad person in general? Someone you wouldn't want to be friends with? That people are stupid for being her fan? What's the point in such tedious dissection of her words?

So it proves that she is a catty girl.
I wouldn't go so far saying she is a bad person. I have always maintained that she is not my cup of tea.

why are you getting testy with me? When did anyone ever said her fans are stupid? Relax, girlfriend.
 
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