Putin's anti-gay laws and Sochi Olympics | Page 24 | Golden Skate

Putin's anti-gay laws and Sochi Olympics

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
To me, vaccinations are necessary even though there is about one in a million chance of fatal reactions from vaccinations. We've got to take that risk for the benefits of them that are much greater rewarded.

I think both protecting children's health and protecting children's soul are necessary.
 
Tonichelle

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Bluebonnet said:
To me, vaccinations are necessary even though there is about one in a million chance of fatal reactions from vaccinations. We've got to take that risk for the benefits of them that are much greater rewarded.

I think both protecting children's health and protecting children's soul are necessary.
Click to expand...

It's not one in a million chance, though.
 
dorispulaski

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Toni, the original paper was debunked.

The problem is always, correlation is not causation. If all nearly all kids get shots, and if kids are generally not able to be diagnosed with autism at birth (which they are not), then quite a few kids with autism will be diagnosed after they have their shots, whether there is any causal relationship between the shots and the autism.

But it is true that all shots have some side effects for some people. In fact, any medication can have side effects.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
 
C

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I've heard about families refusing vaccination and seeing it as some Western influence and the "liberalism" of science and modern medicine. They think they can pray away whatever ails their kids and it will be left in God's hands instead of actually getting medical help. This sets up the age old debate as to whether asking the parents to seek medical help for them or their kids is infringing on their traditional ways or religious freedom, when I'm sure many of us would agree that it's irresponsible to not vaccinate your kid (especially when we live in countries where vaccines are so readily available!). It's like getting a cut and refusing to disinfect it as that would be unnatural healing or trying to play God by giving a cancer patient chemo. It's pretty insane that these parents are allowed to keep their kids, as it is tantamount to child abuse.
 
Tonichelle

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
dorispulaski said:
Toni, the original paper was debunked.

The problem is always, correlation is not causation. If all nearly all kids get shots, and if kids are generally not able to be diagnosed with autism at birth (which they are not), then quite a few kids with autism will be diagnosed after they have their shots, whether there is any causal relationship between the shots and the autism.

But it is true that all shots have some side effects for some people. In fact, any medication can have side effects.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
Click to expand...

I don't know what paper you are referring to?
 
O

Olympia

Joined
Aug 16, 2009
There are all sorts of environmental depredations that could be responsible, and no one seems to worry about them. There are several lines of inquiry I hope people are pursuing right now or already know:

1. Is the rate of autism similar in societies with fewer vaccinations?
2. Is it similar in other developed countries?
3. How do the averages break down among regions or in other groupings in this country?
4. Is there some test we can give newborns, as we give the Apgar Test, to determine whether there are brain anomalies that indicate autism, so it doesn't look like a mysterious onset later on? (I believe progress has been made on this recently.)
5. And, most important, is there a way to prevent autism?

The stakes are high. Withholding vaccines from one's own children endangers other children.
 
spikydurian

spikydurian

Medalist
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Interesting to find a discussion on vaccination in the midst of Putin’s anti gay thread. :laugh:

Olympia said:
The stakes are high. Withholding vaccines from one's own children endangers other children.
Click to expand...

Here’s a link to an article on anti and pro vaccination discussion.

It is interesting that a conversation regarding anti-vaccination I had with a doctor decades ago :biggrin:, sounds prophetic now. . He lamented how some parents due to non-medical reasons were opting out of vaccinating their children. He explained how this minority risks not only endangering their own children but also those who had been vaccinated. It is not a question of wanting to infringe on individual rights but the health of a population at stake in the event of an epidemic particularly the sick, old and very young. People are so mobile these days that the spread of diseases become more likely (think avian flu).

There were outbreaks of whooping cough and measles in Australia recently. There were deaths. My colleague caught the disease too. Interestingly, he didn’t even know he had whooping cough until the cough became too persistent and he was sent for medical tests.

This article indicates that the outbreak was partly contributed by ‘low levels of protective antibodies in the community’ as a result of anti-vaccination attitudes and non-vaccinations.

In the Autism and Vaccination-The Current Evidence, Journal for Specialists in Pediatric Nursing, Vol. 14, Issue 3, 2009, a research was conducted to "review relevant background literature regarding the evidence linking thimerosal-containing vaccine and the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine to autism” and the findings:

As a result of public concern about autism and vaccines, thousands of claims have been submitted to the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. On February 12, 2009, the U.S. Court of Federal Claims published decisions about these claims, which were considered as a group under the Omnibus Autism Proceeding. The Court found, after reviewing 5,000 pages of transcripts, 939 medical articles, 50 expert reports, and hearing testimony from 28 experts, that the MMR and thimerosal-containing vaccines, independently or together, were not causal factors in the development of autism or ASD (U.S. Court of Federal Claims, n.d.).”
Click to expand...
 
Tonichelle

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
C

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Tonichelle said:
:sheesh: Just what Russia needs - more children screwed up by their "social services" system.
Click to expand...

Well, the crazy thing is, any LGBT person would not even be allowed to make kids in Russia, because their kid would be taken by the government on the basis of them being gay. If I'm gay, not only can I not adopt kids, I can't even have my own kid with a woman (in vitro or the classic way) and still have custody of my own kid, because of my sexuality. I think their assumption is that if they prevent LGBT people from having kids and prevent LGBT people from being who they are in public, then they can suppress LGBT people altogether in Russia. They're messing with biology though, and LGBT people will grow up that way regardless of what their government does... the Russian gov't is almost as delusional as Ahmedinejad saying "there are no gay people in Iran".
 
C

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Bluebonnet said:
Exactly who are messing with biology here?!:rolleye:
Click to expand...

They are thinking that if they suppress the ability of gay people to have children, and for gay people to be accepted in society, it will somehow prevent children from becoming gay. Because, to them, being gay isn't something biological, but something that relies on social influence. Which is pretty naive on their part.

Sexuality is biological. There are hundreds of instances of homosexuality in other species, not just humans. It's something that nature intended and something that is prevalent in nature - even if it is counter-intuitive to reproductive success (and there are many many instances of animals being born a certain way, in spite of it not being considered biologically advantageous).

And if you're going the religious route, if God didn't intend to have homosexuals exist, then why do they still exist?
Jesus had 2 dads, so I don't see why it's a problem. :biggrin:
 
Tonichelle

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
CanadianSkaterGuy said:
And if you're going the religious route, if God didn't intend to have homosexuals exist, then why do they still exist?
Jesus had 2 dads, so I don't see why it's a problem. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

I could actually give you a fair go with that debate - but I don't want to create hurt feelings. Needless to say this part of the argument you and I will not agree. :laugh:
 
C

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Tonichelle said:
I could actually give you a fair go with that debate - but I don't want to create hurt feelings. Needless to say this part of the argument you and I will not agree. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Hah, well feel free to PM me and hurt just my feelings. ;)

You can't deny that Jesus had 2 dads, though. :p
 
O

Olympia

Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Tonichelle said:
This makes me happy - not because she's protesting but I just cant stand listening to her sing. :laugh:

I don't understand why celebs from other nations are involved in Olympic Ceremonies anyway.
Click to expand...

I don't generally love Cher's singing, with one notable exception, "Song for the Lonely." That video of buildings springing up got me through a lot in 2001 after Sept. 11.

And I enjoy and admire her as a person. If she wants to protest Russian laws, she certainly has the cred to do it.

Cher (born Cherilyn Sarkisian) actually has a connection to that part of the world. Her father's family was from Armenia, now a separate country but long part of the U.S.S.R., and one of her charitable endeavors was to help rebuild Armenia after an earthquake. She has since supported humanitarian aid to Armenia at various times. Not that that matters; national Olympic committees should be able to invite whomever they want to their Games. Didn't we have Kurt skating in either the opening or closing ceremonies in Salt Lake City, was that wishful thinking on my part?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

GS Forum Staff
  • Sticky
Kamila Valieva anti-doping rule violation: Timeline
287 288 289
Replies
6K
Views
398K
Skating91
S
Top