Putin's anti-gay laws and Sochi Olympics
- Thread starter Big Deal
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That much disapproval for something that people are born with?
Think the problem here is propaganda AGAINST homosexuals...
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The law is awful. Let me make that clear.
But the Games went to China and they're going to Rio, so no boycott of Sochi is warranted.
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maybe, but around year 2006 it was around 75-78% disapproval for gays
Russia historically until now is an illiberal country, while many feel the aggressive actions by liberals it is considered a threat gays lying flowers to tomb of the unknown soldiers with the rainbow flag some kissing looks more like a political statement you will get into trouble, it is considered hooliganism marching and chanting for gay rights and flags in family/national holidays like ww2 commoration, navy or paratroopers day
the problem is majority you will be in trouble because average russians, cossacks and caucasus muslims find that "not normal"
go outside Moscow and St.Petersburg is where the real Russia you will see it still holds very conservative mindset
I would say even more than your typical Southern or Midwest American states
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Who can explain it. Not me.
I do, in this context. The whole premise of that bolded sentence is that homosexuality is a choice--a notion that has been debunked by researchers over and over again (although religious conservatives in the US and elsewhere still refuse to accept it). Since a person's sexual orientation is innate, you cannot "influence" children's or adolescent's sexual orientation. If they turn out to be gay, it's because they were born that way--not because they saw two men or two women kissing, or images of a gay pride parade on TV.
Many young gays and lesbians try to conform to the norms of heteronormative societies, however, since the society keeps telling them that their innate sexual orientation is wrong or "unnatural". The consequences are often self-hatred, depression, academic problems at school, and, in alarming numbers, suicide. The laws under discussion here will further tell gay, lesbian, and transgender children and adolescents that they are an anomaly and unaccepted by the society in which they live. Therefore, these laws will only lead to more heartache for those children and their families--more lives destroyed due to constricting norms of gender and sexuality.
This is precisely why I think it is important NOT to boycott the Olympics. The Russian LGBT community, and especially the LGBT youth, need to see LGBT athletes compete as equals, and to see them and the Russian LGBT community respected and supported by straight athletes as well as the spectators. Let the LGBT athletes go to Sochi and shine--they are precisely the kind of positive role models that LGBT youth in Russia and around the world need to see.
If it were a choice, what person would choose to become gay in a place where they will be so deeply hated and so endangered? What kind of recruiting would possibly make such a choice attractive? A documentary? A billboard on the side of a building? Not even possible.
Besides all the outcomes that Matilda mentions, there's one more. Gays who feel they must blend in will marry. If they still conduct their true lives in secret, many of them will betray their spouses in a profound way. Would you want your son or daughter to enter, probably unknowingly, into such a marriage?
I know that many of the Russians on this board feel that their culture is being criticized. But that's not the case. Russian culture is a wide, deep ocean, carrying many beautiful streams in it. The variety of ethnic traditions. The devotion to the arts that has outlasted the Mongols, the Second World War, and the worst excesses of Stalin. The soulful literature that has enlightened and sustained readers and theatergoers throughout the world. The creative mastery that has enriched concert halls, ballet stages, and ice rinks everywhere. For people to protest about this law does not reflect feelings about the essence of what Russia is. Look, we went through this in America too. How can a country founded on the idea of freedom and equality allow the existence of legally enforced segregation--even of slavery? It was a terrible blot on our history and our honor, and thank God we have grown beyond it (though we're not perfect yet). I hope and pray that Russia will do the same here. But until that time, people who are distressed by the law will speak against it.
Besides all the outcomes that Matilda mentions, there's one more. Gays who feel they must blend in will marry. If they still conduct their true lives in secret, many of them will betray their spouses in a profound way. Would you want your son or daughter to enter, probably unknowingly, into such a marriage?
I know that many of the Russians on this board feel that their culture is being criticized. But that's not the case. Russian culture is a wide, deep ocean, carrying many beautiful streams in it. The variety of ethnic traditions. The devotion to the arts that has outlasted the Mongols, the Second World War, and the worst excesses of Stalin. The soulful literature that has enlightened and sustained readers and theatergoers throughout the world. The creative mastery that has enriched concert halls, ballet stages, and ice rinks everywhere. For people to protest about this law does not reflect feelings about the essence of what Russia is. Look, we went through this in America too. How can a country founded on the idea of freedom and equality allow the existence of legally enforced segregation--even of slavery? It was a terrible blot on our history and our honor, and thank God we have grown beyond it (though we're not perfect yet). I hope and pray that Russia will do the same here. But until that time, people who are distressed by the law will speak against it.
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- Nov 20, 2011
Exactly. Nobody in their right mind would choose to be oppressed. Also excellent point about marriage as a cover-up.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I'm sorry, but I am really having a hard time wrapping my mind around the stupidity of this sentence.
Suppose that you are a straight teenaged boy. Being a straight teenaged boy, quite naturally you obsess all day long about getting in the pants of all the teenaged girls that you know.
Now comes the "gay propagandist." He says, stop feeling sexual attraction for girls, and start feeling sexual attraction to boys."
You say to yourself, that sounds like good advice. I will change my ways. From now on I will not go ape every time I see a hot chick.
I can personally attest to the absurdity of this scenario -- I was once a straight teenaged boy myself.
On the other hand, consider a gay teenaged boy. He does not need a "gay propagandist" to "recruit" him. What he needs is for someone to tell him that he is not crazy, he is not a wicked, sinful, and worthless person deserving to be ostracize by all "decent" folk, he is not alone.
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Again you just take one part and apply it to the whole. Can you say that there is absolutely no recruiting in US? I remember once an actress said that her being lesbian is because she chose to be lesbian. Of course, it is politically incorrect. She was forced to apologize afterwards.
In many situations, restricting one group is the price to pay to protect the other. To strip smokers' freedom to smoke in public buildings is to protect the secondhand smoking hazard to non-smokers (by the way, I absolutely applause for this restriction). Is it unfair to have smokers go into designated areas or standing in the outside of the building?
This reminds me of Anne Heche? She was lesbian for a while.
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- Jul 26, 2003
Believe it or not, there have been movements to legalize pedophilia. A facebook friend posted a link and commented 'unbelievable!' as she was incredulous that it would ever be thought to be ok. I couldn't find the post, but I did find several references when entering 'legalize pedophilia' in a search engine. I avoided clicking on any of them though.
Sexuality is a continuum, and while most people fit in one or the other end of this continuum, many are somewhere in between. For example, a person who has long identified as heterosexual may at some point fall in love with a person of the same sex. Some people are romantically attracted to men AND women--one attraction may be dominant, but not always. We as human beings like to categorize and tend to think in binary terms--we prefer things to be "either/or" instead of "yes/and". Most things are not clear-cut, however, and sexuality is one of those. According to research very few homosexuals feel they had any choice in terms of their sexuality.
Here's what American Psychological Association has to say about sexual orientation: http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx
And although I'm linking you to the major US psychological organization, please note that they specifically point out that homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder. Instead, "Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding."
Here's what American Psychological Association has to say about sexual orientation: http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx
And although I'm linking you to the major US psychological organization, please note that they specifically point out that homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder. Instead, "Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding."
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- Aug 18, 2010
Thanks. The link you gave said that "many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles."
You just gave this new Russian law a reason to exist.
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- Mar 17, 2013
I remember reading a few years back about a high-school boy who wore pink sweaters to class getting harassed by some neanderthals in that Nova Scotia school. Some seniors noticing the harassment decided to do something about it and so they all wore pink sweaters. It was brilliant, effective and noble. I don't think anything will happen in Sochi but could you imagine reaction from the world's press if the Olympic athletes in solidarity with their gay brothers and sisters did something similar in the streets of Sochi? It would be scary but beautiful.
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Pedophiles are not preferentially gay.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
http://individual.utoronto.ca/james_cantor/blog1.html
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
http://individual.utoronto.ca/james_cantor/blog1.html
No I didn't. There is nothing in that sentence that suggests that you can turn a person gay by letting them see positive images of gay people. Besides, you are focusing on one tiny bit--read the whole thing. For example, the paragraph where that is from reads in its entirety:
"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.
The highlighted part refers specifically to the idea of choice, which is what we were talking about earlier. But seriously, please read the whole piece, especially considering the impact that homophobia and discrimination has on LGBT youth.
What a lovely story, RABID. That kind of solidarity is rare but stunning when it happens.
Bluebonnet, I'm not sure what you mean by "nurture." (Surely a TV ad extolling the joys of gay life wouldn't do the trick.) I know that in the past few decades, the percentage of autistic children and children with life-threatening food allergies has increased, but the percentage of gay people in society has remained about the same. One would think that a "nurturing" society such as ours in America, where gays even adopt children, would have had a huge increase in the gay populatioin...but no. So if there's a recruiting effort going on, it's failed abjectly.
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http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/gay-bullying-statistics.html
Gay teens are 2 to 3 times as likely to commit suicide as straight teens.
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