What does Suzuki lack? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

What does Suzuki lack?

Cherryy

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
The only thing that I can say about her jumps that I noticed is she usually needs a long preparation before them, especially the 3L. But you know, maybe that doesn't hurt her much since Carolina does this even more yet her jumps are thought to be one of the best. Aside from the long preparation I don't think Akiko's jumps are small or cover too little distance.

I never wanted to believe that being Japan's, US', Canada's or whatever first lady makes a huge role but after trying to find an answer why Suzuki seems to be getting underscored it seems there's something in it.

Or maybe we should look at it from a different perspective? Why do we think she's underscored? What if she's actually judged properly and these are the fans that overscore her in their eyes?
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
To me, Suzuki doesn't have a "wow" factor like Adelina (spins) or Gracie and Liza (jumps). When Akiko nails a program, you look back at it and none of the technical elements stand out.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I love Akiko's skating, but she lacks consistency. She usually skates well in the Grand Prix, but at Japanese Nationals, her results have been uneven over the past few years: 2nd in 2010 and 2012, but 4th in 2009, 2011 and 2013. Since 2009, she's skated in four 4CCs, finishing 2nd in 2010 and 2013, but 7th in 2011. She was 8th at the 2010 Olympics, and at Worlds she was 11th in 2010, 3rd in 2012 and 12th in 2013.

It's nearly impossible to predict how she is going to skate at a major event.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
I love Akiko's skating, but she lacks consistency. She usually skates well in the Grand Prix, but at Japanese Nationals, her results have been uneven over the past few years: 2nd in 2010 and 2012, but 4th in 2009, 2011 and 2013. Since 2009, she's skated in four 4CCs, finishing 2nd in 2010 and 2013, but 7th in 2011. She was 8th at the 2010 Olympics, and at Worlds she was 11th in 2010, 3rd in 2012 and 12th in 2013.

It's nearly impossible to predict how she is going to skate at a major event.

Oh my goodness. It's like she's the new Carolina (in terms of flip-flop placements) now that Carolina's more consistent ...
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I dont think she is undermarked in general. Yes she should have won NHK but other than that I cant think of a time she was robbed. When she skates well she always gets pretty good scores and results, but she often doesnt perform well (eg- Worlds and Japanese Nationals this year, short program of many events). Then even when she does skate well she is still going to be marked below Kim, Asada, and Kostner who are simply better skaters with much stronger jumps in both difficulty and quality, stronger spins, and who skate with more speed and power.
 

mateusp1

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
I love Akiko.

For me(please, read, FOR ME), she is complete.

Also, she is my second favorite now(behing Caro, who is my favorite skater ever). I prefer Akiko over Yuna and Mao. Akiko has very interesting music choices. She skates unique programs. She shows her personality. Her step sequences are sooooooo difficult. Did you forget the Choreo Sequence of the "O"? Perfect.

The only thing that some people can consider a disadvantage is that her skating style is understated. She goes there, quiet, and does her job. She doesn't skate in a "big style" (like Caro, Yuna). But, for me, skating subtly is not a fault, it is her style. She seems very tidy to watch. And, honestly, I have to say that I like that. I like different skating styles. Sometimes, she me reminds me of Gao, who has a more "understated" skating style.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Suzuki became a "top skater only in Japan" at the time of 2011 NHK trophy. In that season, Ando was taking a season off and Murakami (apparent #2) bombed badly at Cup of China (one week before NHK). Suzuki skated fairly well at Skate Canada. So they decided to "push" Suzuki to save the three spots, with the help of some home advantages. Before then, she was never considered a top skater even in Japan. She was blessed with another luck at GPF. Asada was forced to withdraw due to the well-known reason. Suzuki was given a silver medal with the help of Japanese corporate sponsors. If Asada was competing there, Suzuki's treatment would be far from favorable. It surely influenced her chance of a world medal.

Now Murakami is the clear #2 Japanese. Ando is said to be coming back. Miyahara is making a senior debut. Suzuki (3 years older than Ando, 13 years older than Miyahara) is losing her place in the Japanese team... I expect Suzuki's status will be back to the level of spring 2011. If she skated poorly at Skate Canada, it would be the end of her Olympic challenge.
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Suzuki was given a silver medal with the help of Japanese corporate sponsors.

Or maybe she won because she skated well in the SP and decent in the LP while the other ladies except Carolina bombed badly either in the SP or Lp. At worlds she skated a very good LP, second on the night (and probably should have been second all around) with Mao competing there.
Also I can't understand the Miyahara hype. She may have been lucky to beat a disastrous Akiko at nationals but she failed to crack top 5 at Jr worlds thanks to her major Ur problems. I would rather see Imai making the team before Satoko. But seriously, that is not going to happen. Akiko redeemed herself at World Team trophy where she once again beat Mao even on PCS (and while Mao was not at her best, it was way better than her 2012 Worlds performance). Baring a disaster, she is on the team.
And Miki will have to land all triples, including the flip, to stand a chance, as I understand. I don't see it happening.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Japanese nationals is kind of a ceremony rather than a real sport competiton. The winner and the top 3 are basically decided beforehand. If the national judges (=JSF) want to give Miyahara the Olympic experiences (I believe so), there is no problem for that. She was not just "lucky" last year. The national judges just considered her the 3rd skater after Asada and Murakami. As long as the #3 lady has no chance of an Olympic medal, "future" should be the keyword. In this sense, Ando is in the same boat with Suzuki. Suppose Suzuki's "expected score" is around 185 and Miyahara's is 175. Suzuki would have a definite edge at international competitions but not at Japanese nationals.

Miyahara's real challenge is to win a recognition as the most promising young skater. Well, Miyahara's PCS will rise suddenly and underrotations will decrease once she gets the recognition. She is lucky to have NHK trophy for her debut. If my understanding is right, they are planning to promote Miyahara at the cost of Suzuki, with the help of home advantages. Otherwise, there's no plausible reason to choose Suzuki over Murakami for NHK trophy.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
A "top skater only in Japan" has no chance of an Olympic medal but can place ahead of Asada if she makes an error in the SP. If Asada gets dropped out of the final group because of that, it could be a disaster for the JSF and the general public (including media) in Japan. Miyahara is the "better" choice in this respect.
 

jennyanydots

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Akiko's style is subtle so I think that makes people, including judges, take less notice of her. She's a little weak on spins and has limited back flexibility. She has inconsistency and flutz issues. As far as I've heard the Japanese federation doesn't support her but so far she's been too good for them to pass over. Her body line does make it harder to look elegant and gives off less wow factor but for the most part I thinks she does okay with it.

With that said, I love Akiko and really do hope she finishes up her career with a great Olympic run. I don't really care for Miki Ando's comeback. I consider her a complete skater, that is she does most everything competently although maybe not the best. But what I really love about her is her expression and performance quality. The choreographic segment of her O program just makes feel like I'm flying across the ice with her. The fact that's she's 28 and has overcome an eating disorder makes me want her to succeed even more.
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
A "top skater only in Japan" has no chance of an Olympic medal but can place ahead of Asada if she makes an error in the SP. If Asada gets dropped out of the final group because of that, it could be a disaster for the JSF and the general public (including media) in Japan. Miyahara is the "better" choice in this respect.

Are you implying Akiko would get dropped so she won't "dare" to beat Mao at Sochi? If Mao misses her 3A she can be out of the final group with or without Akiko skating better. I think things are more simple. In every country there is a slight disadvantage for the skater number 2. As long as Akiko beat Mao several times this last couple of seasons, I don't buy this hole conspiracy theory. And for the love of God, she is not a top skater only in Japan. She won medals in almost all the competitions out there, including Worlds, GPF and 4Continents.
If the world didn't collapse when Mao missed top 5 at worlds twice in a row, it won't collapse if she misses the podium at Sochi. She is already an accomplished skaters with a huge arsenal of medals.
People seem to forget that while she lost 2012 NHK trophy to a very flawed Mao, 2011 NHK trophy was the other way around: a flawed Akiko won in front of an almost clean Mao in the LP because Akiko recently had won Skate Canada and Mao was coming from a disastrous season. This shows that J. Federation is willing to support whatever skater which shows good, consistent skating
Akiko doesn't lacks in anything IMO. The problem is that she doesn't have something which stands out. Her musicality maybe, but this doesn't seem to be getting many points with COP. Consistency is another issue for her.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
I believe the 3rd skater should be selected on the basis of "usefulness for Japan", not current scoring abilities. Miyahara is expected to make contributions (along with Murakami) at least until Marin moves up to the senior rank. It probably means that Miyahara is responsible for obtaining the spots for 2018. They shouldn't waste a valuable Olympic spot to a veteran who has no chance of a medal and future expectations.
 

Reginald

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
I think that Jenny Kirk nailed it on the head with Akiko when she said, "Her biggest strength is her lack of weakness."

Akiko does not have problems with under rotations.

She does not have wonky spins, shakey spirals, or horrendous costumes.

She does not flutz or lip.

However, she does not have the base value or components to regularly surpass Kostner, Asada, or Kim.
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Akiko does not have problems with under rotations.

She does not have wonky spins, shakey spirals, or horrendous costumes.

She does not flutz or lip.

I would hate to be insulted in such a 100% sarcastic manner (except the costume bit, I generally like hers). Poor Akiko.
 

clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
I feel like the two biggest things Akiko lacks are 1) consistency and 2) political support/reputation.

The consistency problem hurts her the most, I think. Whenever she starts building momentum, in results and reputation, she then has one or more competitions where she just doesn't land enough jumps. And then her momentum disappears, and she's back to fighting for recognition. She tends to back off her jumps in the exact situations when she needs to go for everything (like in the 2012 Worlds LP). The lack of consistency gives the judges an easy out to mark her down, which then hurts her overall reputation.

She lacks political/judging support. In Japan, it feels like she's seen as behind Mao and Kanako, and this despite the fact that she's beaten both of them several times. For some reason, she never seems to get full credit for her victories over Mao. It's like, instead of saying, "Akiko won that competition," people are thinking, "Well, Akiko did win, but only because Mao didn't do this, or that."

Personally I love her expressiveness and exuberance and wonderful performance quality. I just think she's such a pleasure to watch. And I find the debate about her looks rather odd. Facially, I think she's a very pretty girl, with a most charming smile. It's true she doesn't have the current most-favored skating physique--long-legged, reed-thin, and slightly taller. But so what? I have no personal preference for that kind of physique, nor is there much historical precedent in skating to overtly favor that type of physique. As others have pointed out, some of the greatest skaters in history have also been short and long-torsoed. Among this group: Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Kristi Yamaguchi, Katarina Witt!! And many others, I'm sure. Personally I find the current leggy, hyperextended look unattractive and a bit awkward at times. Just my opinion.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
A "top skater only in Japan" has no chance of an Olympic medal but can place ahead of Asada if she makes an error in the SP. If Asada gets dropped out of the final group because of that, it could be a disaster for the JSF and the general public (including media) in Japan. Miyahara is the "better" choice in this respect.

Miyahara's jumps are tiny and drastically underrotated, much worse than Murakami's---at JW 2013, Miyahara landed exactly one triple, and that was her opening flutz; all of her other triples were UR. JSF can push Miyahara, but they can't get the technical panel to validate her jumps. Because Satoko was beaten at JW by 3 Russians, 2 US skaters and 1 Canadian skater, Japan doesn't get two ladies per JGP event this season.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
She can't receive the GOE bonus because her jumps and spins are of mediocre quality to put it nicely.

She can't receive the PCS because she doesn't have many transitions..."

I think she deserved the NHK.
I agree with all of the above. She may have no obvious weaknesses, but she has nothing that truly stands out, either (including her occasional Level-4 step sequences.) Also, I find her choreography simpler in a way that would be better if made more complex. "O" was beautiful and very well skated by her several times the past season, but I felt it was too empty in places where more intricacy would have added to its beauty (unlike the standard CoP-overload.) She does sometimes have issues with consistency, and, I don't find her repertoire to be all that diverse, either.

She is musical, charming, and lovely. I don't think a Top-8 contendership is anything to be disappointed about. I do believe she should have won NHK 2012.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
For the people saying poor Akiko, or feeling sorry for her wonder why
The woman has accomplished things in the sport most ladies will die for

World Championship podium
Grand Prix Finals
4cc medals
And she is an Olympian

How many people can say that

And the most important, she has persevere in a sport that values youth and new things. She survived a horrible disease and came back better than ever. There is no poor Akiko.
Sometimes I wonder, if the fans of the sport who don't visit the message boards and are not as vocal are as harsh and unforgiving as the vocal ones, because some people are discussing this woman as if she has not accomplished anything.
 

iluvtodd

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Country
United-States
For the people saying poor Akiko, or feeling sorry for her wonder why
The woman has accomplished things in the sport most ladies will die for

World Championship podium
Grand Prix Finals
4cc medals
And she is an Olympian

How many people can say that

And the most important, she has persevere in a sport that values youth and new things. She survived a horrible disease and came back better than ever. There is no poor Akiko.
Sometimes I wonder, if the fans of the sport who don't visit the message boards and are not as vocal are as harsh and unforgiving as the vocal ones, because some people are discussing this woman as if she has not accomplished anything.

I admire your perspective on Akiko. I'm no "techie," but I suspect she doesn't get the support of her federation partly due to her age & that she'll retire after this season. At any rate, I hope she does make Japan's Olympic/World team, that she skates lights out & gets credit for what she does beautifully. She's a joy to watch, & I'm certainly pulling for her.
 
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