6.0 in scoring

berthes ghost said:

On the web however, one would think that the lutz entry edge was THE most important thing in all of skating by the way people go on and on about it. It's not called "Figure Lutzing" after all.

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Indeed, Berthes Ghost. It is but one element in a program of many elements which together make up the repertoire of the contestant. It is the 'whole program' of that contestant which in the 6.0 system is the principal method of deciding a winner.

(How the 'whole program' plays out in the CoP, we will see eventually.)

The discussions of any element in Forums are full of them: e.g., Who has the best whatever? So when we single out the Lutz it is kinda like nitpicking. There is a definition. Whether a skater fulfils that definition is the subject of the nitpicking. IMO, the Lutz is a very difficult jump by definition, and to execute the jump without regard to the definition, is making the jump much easier.

I don't think a Lutz ever decided a competition, and I do sympathize with your feelings about how troublesome it can be for some skaters.

Joe

To go back to the original question about 6.0:

The presentation 6.0 given to Sasha Cohen was questionable. Marks are placeholders, and giving such a high mark for a skate with a clumsy fall and a second error when she was the first skater in the final group seems way out of line.

That judge had to give Kwan 5.9/6.0 to place her higher than Cohen's 5.7/6.0, even though Kwan's technical content did not warrant a 6.0. I can't even begin to think what marks would have been given to Kirk had SHE followed Kwan with a faultless skate.

mzheng said:

Do we measure all Senior Ladies who competed at Worlds elite level should have all FIVE Different Triples (3A excluded). So if for someone who never has in her life has actually landed a true Lutz should be considered as lacking of Senior Ladies Skill? So automatically deduct the base points?

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There is no requirement as to which jumps a senior lady must do in the long program, and only the double axel is required in the short (and two different triples in the short, although which ones are not specified).

It is not true that all senior ladies attempt triple lutzes.

If you look at some of the skaters who don't get past the qualifying rounds at Worlds, who even some who squeak past the short program into the long at Europeans or Four Continents, it's not surprising even now for some of them to be attempting only two or three different triples.

This year Jenny Don won a senior international and placed in the top half at 4Cs with only two. Five years ago Mikkeline Kierkegaard and Lucinda Ruh placed in the top half at Worlds with only three, and in '98 Lenka Kulovana placed respectably with two.

Overall skating quality counts for at least as much as jump content in determining whether a skater is "senior" or not. (Also, of course, age, and the strength of the field in the skater's home country.)

In the mid-90s, it often seemed that many low- to mid-ranked senior ladies would have three triples in their repertoire, and the third (after salchow and toe loop) would often be the lutz, because they could get a higher base mark in the short program by trying it instead of the loop or flip, even if they had little chance of successfully completing any of those three triples.

In the early '90s, skaters with five different triples were rare indeed, and in the '80s, having even one of the harder triples (loop, flip, lutz) was a big deal.

It's now gotten to the point that enough ladies around the world are trying five different triples that in any given year all or almost all of those who make the final round at Worlds will have all five in their repertoire.

But of course they won't necessarily complete all or even any of them successfully in their long programs, and they might pop and not rotate more than a single or double when it counts. Some of them may never have landed a particular triple cleanly in competition ever but continue to include it in hopes of getting partial credit for a reasonable attempt. There are all sorts of things that skaters might do wrong on these attempts, and changing edge on the lutz takeoff, whether severely or just slightly at the last second, is only one of many possible errors.