Damned German spelling will be the death of me yetAlso guys, Nietzsche. Mini pet-peeve of mine.
. Thanks for the correction, prettykeys. Accuracy never goes out of style. 
. Thanks for the correction, prettykeys. Accuracy never goes out of style. 
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Os meant that she was right in thinking that the video posted in post #1 was not the actual music from the arena, which is why Mao's motions were not well matched to the (dubbed-in) music.
Never!
Enantiosis. (Is this the word?) I think she meant what you meant.
This is the single most hilarious turn of events I have witnessed on a figure skating forum as of yet.
Also guys, Nietzsche. Mini pet-peeve of mine.
I suddenly remembered a line of graffiti I read once: Nietzsche is pietzsche.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Wait...I think I meant what she meant, too, if "she" refers to Os168.
If "she" is Prettykeys, then I don't think she (Prettykeys) meant what I meant...I think.
I think Prettykeys was making fun of Os168 for being so certain that she was right about something, while at the same time arguing (that is, Os168 was, in Prettykeys' view) that most everything in the evaluation of figure skating is subjective.
But the question of what cut of music is playing is an objective fact.
I think.
I love this board! Nietzsche was a master of enantiosis. :yes:
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2011
Yes, and kudos to os168 to be the first one to point it out.
Makes about half of this thread pretty pointless (all of it since 5? 6?).Yeah, but Sartre is smarter!
(Actually, I don't think he was, but that's another dorky t-shirt manifesto
)And I thought to myself, dang, times must be really tough in the loan-sharking business if they're trying to collect from an ant! (Bada bing)
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
I don't understand what you think I meant, but I was just laughing at the fact that os168 was correct to say that Mao's movements in the originally posted video were not well-matched with the music and thus it wasn't good interpretation, and then she added it was probably not even the correct cut of music.
This completely "shuts down" those who wanted to protest her criticism (among others') and argued that the criticism is subjective and thus not more valid than those who liked the incorrect music clip matched to the skate.
Stating that someone's interpretation is fine (or even good because it matches "every note") is objectively wrong when discussing the wrong music being played with a particular performance.
I don't understand what you think I meant, but I was just laughing at the fact that os168 was correct to say that Mao's movements in the originally posted video were not well-matched with the music and thus it wasn't good interpretation, and then she added it was probably not even the correct cut of music.
This completely "shuts down" those who wanted to protest her criticism (among others') and argued that the criticism is subjective and thus not more valid than those who liked the incorrect music clip matched to the skate.
Stating that someone's interpretation is fine (or even good because it matches "every note") is objectively wrong when discussing the wrong music being played with a particular performance.
Except that not everyone was referring to that particular clip when speaking of Mao's performance to Nocturne.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
Yeah...that's one way to spin it.
It only took several pages superimposed with anti-intellectual, anti-critique arguments for someone to point out that the original clip that was being discussed and dissected wasn't even set to the correct music.Because hey, if someone set Mao's skating to the opening theme of Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers and people were criticizing how it was a bad interpretation, no one who had the correct music in mind would pipe up and say "wait a minute..."
Just goes to show, just because someone's natural style matches a piece of music, doesn't automatically make it good interpretation or choreography. At least to anyone with a decent sense of musicality and art.
[And I can't believe someone actually brought up Takahashi in defense against the people doing the critiquing. That man, at his best, is not merely a masterful interpreter...he elevates the intersection of skating and music to a whole different artform.]
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2012
This thread has become a place where people are trying to one up each other on who is more intellectual, musical expert and knowledgeable. And do people actually think that real Mao fans have not been to the YouTube channel and watched different versions of her performance? The OP put this particular clip on this thread, but for your info there has been several versions of her performances.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
Minze2001 said:
No, no, no!! As you see, that's just an excuse! Of course, some others know better what you did, isn't that completly logical?
Then again, I didn't even read all of the posts here when they went into ubertheory-mode, and especially the 'no, art is never subjective'-stuff, duh. Plus, this was just for a show, maybe the competition program will still be tweaked... Maybe it's better not to start any theards with Mao's name in the title until the Olympic season is over.
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
Just a quick note on those who've been saying that the original music was the wrong music-
I think it needs to be borne in mind that the two skating performances are of different length, and that the music may have been recut at the time that the program was tweaked. If you watch both performances at the same time, you'll note that the music is very similar and the choreography mostly the same for the first half of the program, but that at some point she cut out a piece of the middle (I'd have to go back and watch both more carefully to find the exact point of the cut). In the newer video, there is about 8-10 seconds less skating, and thus 8-10 seconds less music. I don't think you can deduce what the original cut of music was from the newer video. It could be that the dubbed music was nonetheless the correct music for that particular incarnation of this program.
It's also worth noting that the choreography's correspondence with the music is very similar in the first part of each video, so much so that you can mute one version and/or the other and hop back and forth between the two videos and follow it. I don't think the dubbed music did much to alter the synchronicity of the performance because this little experiment seems to show that it did not. (Starting the two videos at the same point of music is a pain in the backside, incidentally, but do-able when you realize that one starts exactly on the music and the other has a second before the music starts. It takes a few tries.)
Mao's level of expressivity seems to have improved in the week interim, but that's not surprising. I thought she was lovely in the original, but more comfortable for the second one. Her performance is very nuanced and subtle in each, though, and I wonder if some people here prefer programs that demand the "volume be turned up," so to speak, on the expression. I think subtle fits this music perfectly.
I think it needs to be borne in mind that the two skating performances are of different length, and that the music may have been recut at the time that the program was tweaked. If you watch both performances at the same time, you'll note that the music is very similar and the choreography mostly the same for the first half of the program, but that at some point she cut out a piece of the middle (I'd have to go back and watch both more carefully to find the exact point of the cut). In the newer video, there is about 8-10 seconds less skating, and thus 8-10 seconds less music. I don't think you can deduce what the original cut of music was from the newer video. It could be that the dubbed music was nonetheless the correct music for that particular incarnation of this program.
It's also worth noting that the choreography's correspondence with the music is very similar in the first part of each video, so much so that you can mute one version and/or the other and hop back and forth between the two videos and follow it. I don't think the dubbed music did much to alter the synchronicity of the performance because this little experiment seems to show that it did not. (Starting the two videos at the same point of music is a pain in the backside, incidentally, but do-able when you realize that one starts exactly on the music and the other has a second before the music starts. It takes a few tries.)
Mao's level of expressivity seems to have improved in the week interim, but that's not surprising. I thought she was lovely in the original, but more comfortable for the second one. Her performance is very nuanced and subtle in each, though, and I wonder if some people here prefer programs that demand the "volume be turned up," so to speak, on the expression. I think subtle fits this music perfectly.
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
I don't think it's changed.... It's the same as I remembered it the first time I looked. Perhaps you had a delay between your computer and your speakers?
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
:sarcasm: No it isn't.
The original clip was clearly to a different pianist recording, slower, more emotional and expressive and the piano tone was sharper and crisper, almost to a studio quality with little static noise in the background, Mao's performance were off timing below her/Lori standard were all the reasons why I suspected what might have happened. This was proved correct and verified again when I compared the clips side by side BEFORE I posted my confirmation post less than 24 hours ago. Surely I am not the only who have done this to check for themselves? Now the music went back to the correct piano recording for the choreography ... mid pace, less expressive and more flow. Geez I wonder why
Except surely I am not the only one who witnessed the original and knows the REAL truth. I'd like to believe in the best of people, and hope this is nothing more than an innocent youtuber who just decided to correct piano recording, or that original poster might just decide to link to the correct clip to present the SP in better light. Otherwise I'd hate to imagine the alternative. It wouldn't do this sport, the skater or the fandom any good. 18.5k+ viewing and counting, witnesses aplenty. My conscious is clear, are yours?
Oh my God, OS you are right. I watched the OP link again and I found that weird music cut now is actually in 1:22s. But the original weird music cut was in 1:20s as I posted in page 12. Somebody has changed the background music.
:sarcasm: No it isn't.
The original clip was clearly to a different pianist recording, slower, more emotional and expressive and the piano tone was sharper and crisper, almost to a studio quality with little static noise in the background, Mao's performance were off timing below her/Lori standard were all the reasons why I suspected what might have happened. This was proved correct and verified again when I compared the clips side by side BEFORE I posted my confirmation post less than 24 hours ago. Surely I am not the only who have done this to check for themselves? Now the music went back to the correct piano recording for the choreography ... mid pace, less expressive and more flow. Geez I wonder why
I'd like to believe in the best of people, and hope this is nothing more than an innocent youtuber who just decided to correct piano recording, or that original poster might just decide to link to the correct clip to present the SP in better light. Otherwise I'd hate to imagine the alternative. It wouldn't do this sport, the skater or the fandom any good. 18.5k+ viewing and counting, witnesses aplenty. My conscious is clear, are yours?
Oh, please....are you forreal?
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
Oh, how I love Daisuke Takahashi. He makes an average program look artistically excellent (re: any of his Morozov'd programs). It's like watching a movie on a widescreen TV (most everyone) vs. in theatres (him).
Reading through what I've missed in this thread makes me want the GP series to come much sooner. Goodness gracious.
If we are all talking about the link in the OP's post (and not the second one with the purple and pink dress), I downloaded it with a program on August 29th. And because I was curious, I also downloaded it today, September 5th. Comparing these two files side by side, they are, in my opinion, the same clip. This is also what my internet history also suggests.
Also, both have annoying static sounds when played at high volume--but, I admit, it may just be my speakers.
Can people really re-upload a clip on YouTube under the same link? I would actually like to know the question because I'd like to reupload one of my videos and it would be interesting if I could do so.
Guys, really, it's just a video. Though, I'm sure that most of you in this thread would be such excellent witnesses should a crime ever occur in front of you.
(Have a nice day, everyone.
)
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
:sarcasm: No it isn't.
The original clip was clearly to a different pianist recording, slower, more emotional and expressive and the piano tone was sharper and crisper, almost to a studio quality with little static noise in the background, Mao's performance were off timing below her/Lori standard were all the reasons why I suspected what might have happened. This was proved correct and verified again when I compared the clips side by side BEFORE I posted my confirmation post less than 24 hours ago. Surely I am not the only who have done this to check for themselves? Now the music went back to the correct piano recording for the choreography ... mid pace, less expressive and more flow. Geez I wonder why
I'd like to believe in the best of people, and hope this is nothing more than an innocent youtuber who just decided to correct piano recording, or that original poster might just decide to link to the correct clip to present the SP in better light. Otherwise I'd hate to imagine the alternative. It wouldn't do this sport, the skater or the fandom any good. 18.5k+ viewing and counting, witnesses aplenty. My conscious is clear, are yours?
Completely clear, my dear, though it might explain our very opposite original reactions to the program if you'd somehow seen, or heard, something different than I had.
