Courtney Hicks GP season?! | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Courtney Hicks GP season?!

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Cesario still should have won a medal. The underrotation call on her first Loop was bullcrap and she shouldn't have received -GOE on her other jumps that were underrotated but otherwise clean and had good height. The even bigger problem with the judging was the PCS, where Cesario's maturity and musicality wasn't given any credit in comparison to the little Russian girls.

Also, Anna Pogorilaya's 3T's were underrotated but she didn't get called on it. No way should that girl have been on the podium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyrYVAvCliE . Watch starting at 4:34, he 3ts WERE rotated. They weren't cleanly landed but they were all the way around. I agree that the -GOE on Sam's jumps were not necessary but it's unlikely that alone cost her 6 points. Anna got -GOE on most of her jumps, which was correct because a lot of them were not landed well, but she didn't have any rotation issues, Samantha did, that is the difference.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
The one in combination with 2A was rotated, must have remembered it wrong, but look at where her toepick leaves the ice on the one in combination with the Lutz. She's pulling around on the ice with her toepick and not actually "jumping" until she's nearly sideways, and then she lands just a little bit past the point of being sideways.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
The one in combination with 2A was rotated, must have remembered it wrong, but look at where her toepick leaves the ice on the one in combination with the Lutz. She's pulling around on the ice with her toepick and not actually "jumping" until she's nearly sideways, and then she lands just a little bit past the point of being sideways.

I mean I guess but it was closer to being rotated than Samantha's jumps which were visibly UR in real time except for the first 3lo. The caller at JW was pretty strict but skaters are supposed to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to URs so I think it was fine Pogorilaya got credit for both 3ts, most of the ladies weren't hit too hard with the UR/DG except for Miyahara and Cesario, who have a history of cheating their jumps. Unfortunate as it is it seems that once you have a reputation for cheating your triples, the technical callers tend to scrutinize your jumps extra carefully compared to the skaters who don't have that kind of record. We see this with Mirai, Mao, Alissa, etc.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Sep 14, 2008
Country
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I mean I guess but it was closer to being rotated than Samantha's jumps.

Not really. Her first 3Loop is clearly complete. Totally bogus call.

For the second 3Loop, you can see the hook on the landing in real-time, but that's mostly just the allowed 1/4 turn she is making. She's perhaps ever so slightly short past the allowed amount, but that call may be dependent on saying "oh look, the very tippy top of her toepick has begun to touch the ice, so that's where the jump should be considered landed". Calling jumps like that really isn't good practice, because it means you're actually punishing a skater for having proper form (completely pointing their toes down during the jump). If another skater achieved the exact same height, rotational speed, and takeoff point as the first skater, but didn't extend their toes as fully, they would actually "land" the jump slightly further around than the first skater, simply because their toepick is taking an extra millisecond to hit the ice as a result of not being completely extended.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
IMO, Cesario was held down for being an unknown and not having a 3-3.
:confused::unsure: (As you can see in the BV thread) with this IJS, for example, a 7-triples program without a 3-3 has a higher BV than a 6-triples program with a 3-3, so the judges can't "hold down" someone for not having a 3-3 in the FS (unless they hold down the PCS for not having a 3-3, which would be absurd)... The 3-3 is important for the SP now (which is exactly the opposite of what used to be, funnily: ten years ago, in order to be the best a girl needed a 3Lz+2T/2Lo in the SP and a 3-3 in the FS!)
For the second 3Loop, you can see the hook on the landing in real-time, but that's mostly just the allowed 1/4 turn she is making. She's perhaps ever so slightly short past the allowed amount, but that call may be dependent on saying "oh look, the very tippy top of her toepick has begun to touch the ice, so that's where the jump should be considered landed". Calling jumps like that really isn't good practice, because it means you're actually punishing a skater for having proper form (completely pointing their toes down during the jump). If another skater achieved the exact same height, rotational speed, and takeoff point as the first skater, but didn't extend their toes as fully, they would actually "land" the jump slightly further around than the first skater, simply because their toepick is taking an extra millisecond to hit the ice as a result of not being completely extended.
Well, that's an interesting point: you may be right, but, if you're correct, their strategy should just be "don't point your toes and fully rotated your jumps" (honestly, it doesn't make all that difference, aesthetically)! ;)
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
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Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
the judges can't "hold down" someone for not having a 3-3

Being an unknown always hurts someone, because a lot of the judging is still reputation based. Therefore, if you're not well known, you need to have strong technical content to make the judges take notice of you quicker. Without a 3-3, the judges at Nationals cared even less about Cesario because they just assume she's a random middle-of-the-pack skater who won't ever be on the podium.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Being an unknown always hurts someone, because a lot of the judging is still reputation based. Therefore, if you're not well known, you need to have strong technical content to make the judges take notice of you quicker. Without a 3-3, the judges at Nationals cared even less about Cesario because they just assume she's a random middle-of-the-pack skater who won't ever be on the podium.

I agree with this too. Even skaters who don't have a 3-3, like Ashley, did have a 3-3 in the past (or at least attempted them regularly). Aside from the very top skaters, competitors need solid technical content to get the PCS marks.
 

LuisRollerArg

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
courtney win SLC by a wide margin in FS.. she definitivelly needs a GP at least (2 would be ideal).. she can get best places than zawadzki!
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
courtney win SLC by a wide margin in FS.. she definitivelly needs a GP at least (2 would be ideal).. she can get best places than zawadzki!

Yes Courtney did deserve at least one GP event this year. Cesario really didn't do enough last season to get 2 GP events as far as i'm concerned. Parts of Courtney's skating still bugs me with how she moves on the ice but her jumps are insane and i like how she actually has some personality on the ice. She's not trying to be the pwetty princess type skater and embraces being a power skater.
 

MoonlightSkater

On the Ice
Joined
May 17, 2011
The one in combination with 2A was rotated, must have remembered it wrong, but look at where her toepick leaves the ice on the one in combination with the Lutz. She's pulling around on the ice with her toepick and not actually "jumping" until she's nearly sideways, and then she lands just a little bit past the point of being sideways.

It's actually considered proper technique to take off after having drawn the blade almost around the outside of the toe pick, thus having the first quarter turn of the rotation on the ice. Taking off totally squared to the back would result in something that wasn't really a toe loop.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Yes Courtney did deserve at least one GP event this year. Cesario really didn't do enough last season to get 2 GP events as far as i'm concerned. Parts of Courtney's skating still bugs me with how she moves on the ice but her jumps are insane and i like how she actually has some personality on the ice. She's not trying to be the pwetty princess type skater and embraces being a power skater.

I think Cesario got two events by chance. She got SA first and TEB when someone withdrew. Someone else pointed out that Hicks didn't that well last season (internationally) to get a GP event unless it was an invitation to SA--but Cesario was extended that invitation instead.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I think Cesario got two events by chance. She got SA first and TEB when someone withdrew. Someone else pointed out that Hicks didn't that well last season (internationally) to get a GP event unless it was an invitation to SA--but Cesario was extended that invitation instead.

Given that the USFSA places so much weight on Nationals results when deciding who goes to Worlds, I wish they would have rewarded Courtney's high placement with the invitation spot at SA.
 

samba

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
I don't mind Samantha got SA but why Zhang? Why USFS awarded Zhang so much, SA year after year, based on what criteria? Courtney should have got SA,not Zhang. Courtney has so much more potential than Zhang. The stupidity of USFS committee is unbearable.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Now the USFSA is really in a good situation: the skater who they gave the SA host pick to (they don't have anything to do with TEB, obviously) placed 3rd, the skater who didn't receive any GP assignement won :biggrin:
 

Matilda

Medalist
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
I find that Courtney's LP suits her skating a lot better than the SP. She is not a musical skater, but she has clearly worked on her presentation--she sold her Evita pretty well. Jumps aside, Sammi is still a more skilled and elegant performer than Courtney. Not to mention superior in style... How Courtney's team lets her skate in those horrid half-over-the-skates tights (too dark a shade for her fair skin as well) is a mystery to me. I hope she switches to the classic white boots look asap, and that she gets a WD spot in a GP. She deserves it.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I just love watching Courtney. Something about her jumps make me so excited. They are big, Midori Ito big, Tonya Harding big.

She said this is her favorite program ever, and you know she meant it. That's how oblivious she is and I find that very endearing. :)
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Thanks for the link. Can someone explain why Courtney is generally rated below Gracie Gold?

While very put together, she doesn't look conventionally like Miss America. Her last name is not something that you can run away with and do cheesy champion-type analogies with. She does not have a Junior World medal.

(The first two were said in jest. The last one wasn't.)
 
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