Will Ando make the Olympic Team? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Will Ando make the Olympic Team?

thinspread

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
It doesn't make difference whether their scoring capacities are 170 or 185. They need 195 or higher outside of Japan (where the JSF can influence the judges in favor of Japanese skaters). Suzuki has no future and Miyahara has it. That should be the deciding factor. Of course, a skater of 185 is highly useful at worlds, than one of 170.

So-called "effort" or "wish" don't matter at all. The values of Olympic candidates should be judged by usefulness for the whole skating community in Japan. After all, the Olympics is a quasi-war between nation states.

That sounds scary. I hope we don't get to see spying, sniping, behind-the-door tactics, or covert propaganda. :laugh: The world of sports doesn't need any of that.

If as you said they judge it's unlikely anyway for either Suzuki or Miyahara medalling, why not send a better skater of the two to Olympics? Wouldn't it be sufficient to send Miyahara to 4CC or Worlds for her exposure/experience in major championships? Are Japanese skating fans going to be silent to see its fedration yield such power and a higher achieving athlete buried in federation politics?
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
It's almost certain that Miyahara skates batter than Suzuki (or Ando) at Japanese nationals. Most of the viewers and audiences will agree that Miyahara is the better skater and she should go to the Olympics. What the judges need to do is just producing the score sheet to fit the impression of ordinary people.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
It's almost certain that Miyahara skates batter than Suzuki (or Ando) at Japanese nationals. Most of the viewers and audiences will agree that Miyahara is the better skater and she should go to the Olympics. What the judges need to do is just producing the score sheet to fit the impression of ordinary people.

That is outrageous! Judges need to ignore tiny jumps, blatant underrotations and wrong edges? How fair is that to skaters who skate with correct technique and great amplitude? Maybe the Japanese judges do that at home for the ordinary people of Japan, but the ISU judges will not do that at Olympics and Worlds.

Miyahara is a pretty skater, but she visibly underrotates her tiny jumps. She does that even at a young age, so what will happen when she matures? It may not be so correct to say that she is the future.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
It's almost certain that Miyahara skates batter than Suzuki (or Ando) at Japanese nationals. Most of the viewers and audiences will agree that Miyahara is the better skater and she should go to the Olympics. What the judges need to do is just producing the score sheet to fit the impression of ordinary people.

Better skater? Excuse me, where are Miyahara's senior world medals/titles? How many times has Miyahara qualified for and medalled at the Senior GPF compared to Ando/Suzuki? Heck, where are her Grand Prix medals? :sarcasm:
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Better skater? Excuse me, where are Miyahara's senior world medals/titles? How many times has Miyahara qualified for and medalled at the Senior GPF compared to Ando/Suzuki? Heck, where are her Grand Prix medals? :sarcasm:

The JSF is not accountable for someone like you (foreign skating fan/maniac/otaku). They just need to be seen by ordinary Japanese people that the better skater was chosen for the Olympics. It's almost certain that Miyahara skates better with more difficult contents and less errors than a veteran 13 years older.
 

inskate

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
If I recall correctly, selection of the team involves quite a bit of politics and is a decision made by the federation. Thinking back to Miki's own experience back in 2006 when she finished like 5th or 6th at Japanese Nationals, but was still chosen for the team over medalist Yukari Nakano.

Actually, the selection process in Japan involves establishing strict rules and then sticking to them, even if they are likely to backfire.

Ando was sent to Olympics 2006 because back then in order to make the Olympic team the skaters had to collect the highest possible amount of points by winning medals in international cometitions and Nationals. Miki had very succesful seasons leading to the Olympics, and even if she came dead last in the Nationals, she still would make the team. In fact, Shizuka was in the greatest danger of being dropped from the team. Yukari, who started peaking at that time (and whom many fans would like to see skate at Torino) had less points than Yoshie Onda.

After that JSF decided that their qualification process was faulty and subsequently changed it. Since then, the spots are distributed between:
1. The skater who placed the highest at GPF. (Note: the skater has to compete at Japanese Nationals. Their placement is not important, but if they fail to attend Nats, they are dropped from the team).
2. The winner of the Japanese Nationals.
3. Whoever places the highest at Japanese Nationals (aside from the 2 already qualified) - but the international standing is taken into consideration.

The JSF already stated that according to the rules the only way for Miki to make the Olympic team is to win Nationals (she doesn't have GP assignments and her international standing is low due to the missed seasons) and that they plan to stick to the rules: http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/p-sp-tp0-20130929-1196855.html
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
The JSF already stated that according to the rules the only way for Miki to make the Olympic team is to win Nationals (she doesn't have GP assignments and her international standing is low due to the missed seasons) and that they plan to stick to the rules: http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/p-sp-tp0-20130929-1196855.html

I think your interpretation is too strict. The only way for Ando to make the Olympic team unconditionally is to win Nationals. In the cases of 2nd or 3rd, other considerations will be involved. Ando would be chosen if the nationals podium was consisted of the trio of Asada-Murakami-Ando. Basically, the 3rd spot should go with the highest TES. In order to make the podium, Ando must beat Suzuki and Miyahara by technical merits.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
seems Miyahara's UR' ome have magically disappear
let the promotion begin, but let's wait and see how the international judges will score her this season

I still say Miki has a higher chance than Suzuki
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The JSF is not accountable for someone like you (foreign skating fan/maniac/otaku). They just need to be seen by ordinary Japanese people that the better skater was chosen for the Olympics. It's almost certain that Miyahara skates better with more difficult contents and less errors than a veteran 13 years older.

What I was referring to is that most of the skating community certainly does NOT view Miyahara as a better skater than Suzuki. Unless you got your skaters switched around. I'm not even going to compare the PCS scores of Miyahara and Suzuki as an example, as it would just be way too unfair, and people shouldn't expect a junior skater like Miyahara to be a better skater than a veteran like Suzuki.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
seems Miyahara's UR' ome have magically disappear

Miyahara has not received many UR calls except in Milan, Italy. In most cases, 2 or 3, regardless of domestic or international competitions. Don't expect too much in favor of Suzuki. Looking at the protocols of Kinki regionals, national judges seem to be very eager to prop up her.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
What I was referring to is that most of the skating community certainly does NOT view Miyahara as a better skater than Suzuki. Unless you got your skaters switched around. I'm not even going to compare the PCS scores of Miyahara and Suzuki as an example, as it would just be way too unfair, and people shouldn't expect a junior skater like Miyahara to be a better skater than a veteran like Suzuki.

Suzuki's PCS by average has always been low except for those rare competitions where she skates lights out
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Suzuki's PCS by average has always been low except for those rare competitions where she skates lights out

Are your referring to her low PCS in the two Grand Prix events where she won silver and the Grand Prix final where she came 3rd? Or are you referring to the season before when she got GP gold and silver, 2nd at the GPF and World bronze?

She certainly is one of those skaters that if she does poorly she actually gets poor PCS and if she does well she gets good PCS (I kind of wish the judges treated all skaters as they do Suzuki). But compared to Miyahara, it's painfully obvious Suzuki is the better skater, in almost every way.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Satoko Miahara's FS at 2013 JW: 3ze+3t<, 3f<, 3lo<, 2a, 2a+3t<, 3ze<, 3s<+2t+2t
She rotated exactly one triple jump, and that was a flutz.

Japanese judges and techs at Nationals can pretend the jumps are rotated, but that won't help Satoko at international events.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Japanese judges and techs at Nationals can pretend the jumps are rotated, but that won't help Satoko at international events.

Actually the caller at JW was a Japanese. I believe he was given an indication from the JSF to hold Miyahara down in order to relieve pressure from Murakami at worlds. That competition could be considered an aberration.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Actually the caller at JW was a Japanese. I believe he was given an indication from the JSF to hold Miyahara down in order to relieve pressure from Murakami at worlds. That competition could be considered an aberration.

But she clearly under-rotated the jumps. And even if you're crying foul on the caller, you would think at least a few out of 6 UR'ed jumps were actually under-rotated. And I doubt Miyahara purposely under-rotated jumps to relieve pressure from Murakami (although I can't see this rationale either, how Miyahara's JW affected Murakami's SWorlds). Exactly how would calling out a skater on the UR jumps HELP a skater like Murakami who herself is prone to URs?

At Nationals, the tech callers cut the skaters slack, which is harmful because it makes them think they're actually executing jumps successfully. If there's any skater that first comes to mind when it comes to URs, it's Miyahara.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Actually the caller at JW was a Japanese. I believe he was given an indication from the JSF to hold Miyahara down in order to relieve pressure from Murakami at worlds. That competition could be considered an aberration.

Don't think that was very successful, as Murakami URd both loops at Worlds anyway.

And since when does the JSF dictate what a Technical Specialist in the employ of the ISU does on the job?
If that is true, it is an extreme conflict of interest.
Makoto Okazaki should be banned for life from working as a technical specialist for the ISU, and the JSF should be fined for interference.
 

NMURA

Medalist
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
As far as Murakami is concerned, London worlds was a huge success. She has established her #2 position and became a virtual lock for Sochi Olympics. Murakami was not chosen for WTT because they didn't want to risk her status in a tough field (she skated very poorly at last year's WTT).

In short, Murakami is always the JSF's pet. She will never miss the Olympics. And Asada is the only realistic medal hope. It's not a game that 5 skaters vying for 3 spots, but 3 skaters vying for one spot.
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
In fact, Miki performed better than I expected, considering the fact she just had a baby, plus she stayed out of the competition for so long. Her techniques are still there, but she lacks stamina, which can be recovered given more time (similar to Yuna's first competition last year). Even you may think Miyahara is the future, but I just don't like her uber knee bend, and overall tiny figure (4 ft 8 1⁄2 in). I prefer to see Miki than Miyahara. But between Miki and Akiku, I think it depends on who is in a better condition. Miki is still younger than Akiku, right?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
As far as Murakami is concerned, London worlds was a huge success. She has established her #2 position and became a virtual lock for Sochi Olympics. Murakami was not chosen for WTT because they didn't want to risk her status in a tough field (she skated very poorly at last year's WTT).

In short, Murakami is always the JSF's pet. She will never miss the Olympics. And Asada is the only realistic medal hope. It's not a game that 5 skaters vying for 3 spots, but 3 skaters vying for one spot.

She's established her #2 position on the Japanese team as much as Denis Ten established himself as the undisputed #2 man in the world. It's one competition, and if you took the whole season, Suzuki had much better results. And you just admitted that WTT was a tough field, and Suzuki won that competition, while Murakami wasn't sent for risk of a bad result... doesn't that mean Suzuki should be regarded higher than Murakami? At this point, Murakami and Suzuki are rather neck-in-neck for me. Yes, federations always love their younger pets, but never underestimate favouritism of veterans or those who produce World medals (hell, it got Leonova on the Russian world team).
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Murakami's record for 2012-2013:

Skate Canada bronze
4th SP 2a, 3t+3t<, 3f<<-df
4th FS 3ze, 3lo, 3f, 3lo<+2lo, 3f^1a, 3s<+2t+2lo, 3t<
Cup of Russia 4th
6th SP 2a, 3t+3t<, 3f<↓
3rd FS 3ze, 3lo, 3f, 3lo<+2lo, 3f, 3s+2lo+2lo, 3t*
DID NOT MAKE GPF
4CC
3rd SP 2a, 3t+3t, 3f
3rd FS 3ze, 3lo+2t, 3f<, 3lo<, 3f^1a, 3s+2lo+2lo<, 3t
Worlds 4th
3rd SP 2a, 3t+3t, 3f
7th FS 3ze, 3lo<+2t, 3f, 3lo<, 3f^1a, 3s+2lo+2lo, 3t
Did not skate at WTT


Suzuki record for 2012-2013
Skate Canada silver
5th SP 5th 3t+3t<<, 3ze, 2a
1st SP 3ze+2t+2lo, 2a+3t, 3f+1lo, 3f, 3lo, 3s, 2a
NHK silver
5th SP 3t+3t, 1z, 2a
1st FS 3ze+2t+2lo, 2a+3t, 3f, 3ze, 3lo+2t, 3s, 3lo<
GPF bronze
3rd SP 3t+3t, 3f, 2a
3rd FS 3f+2t+2lo, 2а+3t, 1ze, 3f↓, 3lo+2t, 3s, 3lo<<↓
4CC silver
2nd SP 3t+3t, 3f, 2a
2nd FS 3f+2t+2lo, 1a-df, 3ze, 3f, 3lo+2t, 3s, 3lo
Worlds 12th
7th SP 3t+3t<-fo, 3f, 2a
13th FS 3f<<-hd, 2a↓, 3ze-df, 3f, 3lo<+2t<, 3s, 2lo
WTT 1st
2nd SP 3t+2t, 3f, 2a
1st FS 3f+2t+2Lo, 2a+3t, 3ze-fwd, 3f, 3lo, 3s, 3s+2t

Clearly, Murakami had the better showing at Worlds, but Suzuki had a far better season, with a better GP, making the GPF and medaling in the GPF, beating Murakami head to heat at 4CC, and winning the WTT.

Murakami's results are marred by her continuing habit of underrotating jumps.
 
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