Olympic judges draw held in Oberstdorf | Golden Skate

Olympic judges draw held in Oberstdorf

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
"In Oberstdorf, after the last Olympic spot had been decided at the Nebelhorn Trophy, another selection took place: the judges' draw for the 2014 Olympic Winter Games in Sochi, Russia.

Countries that qualified entrants to the four events, based on finishes at the 2013 World Figure Skating Championships and Nebelhorn, were entered into the draw. Thirteen countries were drawn for each of the four individual figure skating events. Nine of those judges will be seated on the short program panel, which is drawn 45 minutes before the start of the event. The remaining four judges are swapped onto the panel after another draw 45 minutes before the free skates and free dance..."

Article Written by Klaus-Reinhold Kany and Lynn Rutherford for Ice Network
Published September 30, 2013

Link to Article Below
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2013/09/30/62218608/olympic-judges-draw-held-in-oberstdorf
 

Celine

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
So I would assume insiders know WHO the Olympic judges are from each country. So then, now that the countries have been chosen, the wheeling and dealing, and wining and dining and whatever el$$s usually goes on ... does. Let the Games ... BEGIN!
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Hmm, no Canadian judge for the Men's event. I wonder how that affects Patrick Chan's chances...
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Hmm, no Canadian judge for the Men's event. I wonder how that affects Patrick Chan's chances...

Well, hopefully haters will shut up at least should he win and all non-Canadian judges are responsible for that.

It shouldn't affect his chances if the judges score fairly. One judge isn't going to make a huge difference, and it'll be really obvious if they try to skew his marks. One would hope that the crackdown on sketchy judging is more enforced at the Olympics.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Well, hopefully haters will shut up at least should he win and all non-Canadian judges are responsible for that.

It shouldn't affect his chances if the judges score fairly. One judge isn't going to make a huge difference, and it'll be really obvious if they try to skew his marks. One would hope that the crackdown on sketchy judging is more enforced at the Olympics.

inflation is an inherent feature of CoP, not an external influence by the Canadian federation. They even named the marks after him: PCS = "Patrick Chan Scores." ;)
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
It's nice to have a judge on the panel, but where the rubber meets the road is the tech panel. Those positions have not yet been announced.
 

lcd

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
It's nice to have a judge on the panel, but where the rubber meets the road is the tech panel. Those positions have not yet been announced.

Totally agree. Levels in the footwork sequences in dance for instance will define relative placements amongst the top 10
 

GF2445

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
The biggest question for me is who is going to be on the technical panel- especially in dance- those levels are going to be vital. There either has to be both an American and a Canadian on that panel or neither of them if this event is going to be fair.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
inflation is an inherent feature of CoP, not an external influence by the Canadian federation. They even named the marks after him: PCS = "Patrick Chan Scores." ;)

This is true. CoP gives higher marks for better quality skating (I know, outrageous! :sarcasm:), and Chan has one of the highest if not the highest levels of quality skating, so it's only expected that his marks will be higher than others under this system.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
This is true. CoP gives higher marks for better quality skating (I know, outrageous! :sarcasm:), and Chan has one of the highest if not the highest levels of quality skating, so it's only expected that his marks will be higher than others under this system.

Yes. Oddly, though, it doesn't compensate for when the "skating" is done on one's butt and not on one's blade. Guess they're equivalent! :p
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Yes. Oddly, though, it doesn't compensate for when the "skating" is done on one's butt and not on one's blade. Guess they're equivalent! :p[/QUOTe

This is probably useless wtih this gang of people but remember if you fall you lose points and it will cut int the flow or performance marks.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Yes. Oddly, though, it doesn't compensate for when the "skating" is done on one's butt and not on one's blade. Guess they're equivalent! :p

Yes, those deductions are taken elsewhere. Judges don't take away GOE on jump for a poorly interpreted program, so why would they deduct from PCS for a technical error?
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Yes, those deductions are taken elsewhere. Judges don't take away GOE on jump for a poorly interpreted program, so why would they deduct from PCS for a technical error?

Technical errors like falls do considerably affect interpretation, especially when the jump is timed and positioned well with the music. I supposed falling and butt-gliding on the ice can "go" along with certain musical phrases, but that's not typically how musical interpretation is done. ;)
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Technical errors like falls do considerably affect interpretation, especially when the jump is timed and positioned well with the music. I supposed falling and butt-gliding on the ice can "go" along with certain musical phrases, but that's not typically how musical interpretation is done. ;)

Which totally explains why Kostner got 9.04 for interpretation in her Bolero in spite of a fall at the very end, and V/T got 9.43 for interpretation when he fell in their Worlds freeskate. Plushenko had the 3rd highest PCS at Euros 2013 SP with a fall and the technical content of a mid-tier junior skater (he got 40.36 PCS, just 2 points less than his personal best of 42.50... he scored 8.75/9.00's for interpretation). Takahashi and Chan both fell at last year's GPF and scored 9.11 and 9.18, respectively, for interpretation.

Point being, when the favourites fall, they still manage to get high scores because the rest of their program is good, because of reputation, or some combination of the two. It seems people only tend to go after Chan for benefiting from it. It's not right when he gets overscored, but the reality is it happens to everyone else, too.

But haters are just itching for Chan to make mistakes so that they can go after him exclusively. The Chanbashers would still complain even if he did a clean SP/FS, and whine that he's a terrible skater with soulless artistry and is overscored, blah blah blah. Look at the rest of the field -- everyone is making errors (hello, it's ice) and not half of them attempt the same difficulty of Chan in terms of program composition and jump layout, and several still get high PCS scores in spite of errors.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Technical errors like falls do considerably affect interpretation, especially when the jump is timed and positioned well with the music. I supposed falling and butt-gliding on the ice can "go" along with certain musical phrases, but that's not typically how musical interpretation is done. ;)

Timing jumps exactly with the music is actually pretty rare. A fall mars maybe 2 seconds of a 4:30 minute program, so if 268 of 270 seconds of a program are skated beautifully why would you mark that below 270 seconds of mediocre skating?
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
The judging panel does give lower PCS than usual (lol, might not be the right word) when skaters make major errors that interrupt the performance. Compare PChan's 13 Worlds free skate and 12 COR free skate.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Timing jumps exactly with the music is actually pretty rare. A fall mars maybe 2 seconds of a 4:30 minute program, so if 268 of 270 seconds of a program are skated beautifully why would you mark that below 270 seconds of mediocre skating?

Precisely. Most falls are visually disruptive but they do not mess up the overall make up of the program if the skater quickly recovers. Generally, the skater will lose about 0.25-0.5 in PE scores per major error (since the performance and execution of said performance was marred), but it shouldn't affect skating skills, transitions (unless the fall was on a transition leading to a jump or out of a jump), choreography (assuming the fall or botched lift or whatever doesn't result in a "break" with usual choreo not being performed), or even interpretation, IMO... especially when there is essentially a double deduction in GOE and -1 points for a fall on an element.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Timing jumps exactly with the music is actually pretty rare. A fall mars maybe 2 seconds of a 4:30 minute program, so if 268 of 270 seconds of a program are skated beautifully why would you mark that below 270 seconds of mediocre skating?

But those two seconds cannot be fully isolated from the other 268. A program is a whole. Once a big mistake like a fall is made, the impression and mood can be adversely affected beyond the actual fraction of a second the skater falls and gets back up.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
But those two seconds cannot be fully isolated from the other 268. A program is a whole. Once a big mistake like a fall is made, the impression and mood can be adversely affected beyond the actual fraction of a second the skater falls and gets back up.

As much as an entire 270 seconds of subpar skating?
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Even if a skater fell on every jump, every spin, every footwork sequence, heck, let's add in some falls while stroking, it still wouldn't add up to more than 15 or 20 seconds of a 270 second program.
 
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