Madison Hubbell & Zachary Donohue | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Madison Hubbell & Zachary Donohue

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
I think they are in better shape this year than last, but there is no waltz feel at all in their waltz section of their SD to k.d. lang's Hallelujah. The judges are inconsistent about giving out SD music penalties, but when they do, it is an utter disaster, as it was for Agafonova and Ucar when they picked Rybak's Fairytale as a polka in the 2012-13 season and were just pounded for it by the judges. at Worlds so that they did not qualify for the FD.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/SEG007.HTM
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

It is not just the -1 for the music deduction, both pattern dance segments cannot earn higher than level 1, because every step is considered to be a timing error, T, if it is done correctly, and of course N if it is not, and the overall Timing PCS component takes a hit as well The kids scored only 43.98 at Worlds and finished second to last. At Europeans, their SD score was 50.79 and they were 12th in the SD.

At Europeans, and, indeed, the rest of the season, the error was not called, but the penalty is so severe that it is not worth risking.

I would rather see their SD turned into an FD. It has some very nice moments, but it does not conform to the program requirements very well. IMO.

As to the butterfly FD to Adagio for TRON by Daft Punk, it is way too reminiscent of Faiella and Scali's Butterflies/Yentl soundtrack FD (2007-2008). If you recognize the soundtrack, you sit there puzzled, thinking what has this got to do with TRON. And if you don't recognize it, it is somewhat better, but it still looks gimmicky with the costume playing such a large role in the dance, and worse, a costume gimmick previously used by Faiella/Scali.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilAMFDiZj4M

Gilles and Poirier's overly gimmicky SD cape dress got mixed reviews last season for similar reasons. Too gimmicky, and the costume gimmick too like Torvill & Dean's 1984 OSP.
 
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robredo40

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Hubbel and Donahue FD is just not good , nothing really stands out in this program, it looks like they are just going through the motions, really dissapointed expected much more from Marie France.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Hubbel and Donahue FD is just not good , nothing really stands out in this program, it looks like they are just going through the motions, really dissapointed expected much more from Marie France.

Why? Go back and look at the programs she's choreographed the last few years. She has absolutely zero range as a choreographer.
 

moon

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Come on guys. H/D just moved to Quebec and started training there in early June. It would have taken a couple of weeks at least before they chose music, had it cut and then choreographed the program. So, you are looking at a very new SD and FD. The team that beat them in the FD didnt have a competition after Canadian Nationals so they have had months longer to practice the waltz pattern and their FD. P/I moved to Quebec at the same time as H/D so their program has the same amount of mileage on it as H/D. As I wrote regarding G/P I am impressed they are even presenting their programs at this time of year.
 

wishonastar

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
ie Madi and Zach's FD costume-Madi's costume was never intended to be worn in competition, it is a sample of a leotard concept to see if it was possible to skate the elements with these details. Hence, it is not the final dye concept, nor is it a complete dress. The skirt is just a practice skirt she put on over the leotard because the coaches wanted to see it in competition. Costumes for both programs are still in discussion.
 

Barb

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
I think they are in better shape this year than last, but there is no waltz feel at all in their waltz section of their SD to k.d. lang's Hallelujah. The judges are inconsistent about giving out SD music penalties, but when they do, it is an utter disaster, as it was for Agafonova and Ucar when they picked Rybak's Fairytale as a polka in the 2012-13 season and were just pounded for it by the judges. at Worlds so that they did not qualify for the FD.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/SEG007.HTM
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/wc2013_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

It is not just the -1 for the music deduction, both pattern dance segments cannot earn higher than level 1, because every step is considered to be a timing error, T, if it is done correctly, and of course N if it is not, and the overall Timing PCS component takes a hit as well The kids scored only 43.98 at Worlds and finished second to last. At Europeans, their SD score was 50.79 and they were 12th in the SD.

At Europeans, and, indeed, the rest of the season, the error was not called, but the penalty is so severe that it is not worth risking.

I would rather see their SD turned into an FD. It has some very nice moments, but it does not conform to the program requirements very well. IMO.

As to the butterfly FD to Adagio for TRON by Daft Punk, it is way too reminiscent of Faiella and Scali's Butterflies/Yentl soundtrack FD (2007-2008). If you recognize the soundtrack, you sit there puzzled, thinking what has this got to do with TRON. And if you don't recognize it, it is somewhat better, but it still looks gimmicky with the costume playing such a large role in the dance, and worse, a costume gimmick previously used by Faiella/Scali.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilAMFDiZj4M

Gilles and Poirier's overly gimmicky SD cape dress got mixed reviews last season for similar reasons. Too gimmicky, and the costume gimmick too like Torvill & Dean's 1984 OSP.

Interesting and I understand you but I hope they don´t get penalized because it is a nice program and I got bored with the typical waltzes so I think it is great the teams can choose other type of music.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
;) I would like to see the SD as an FD, and the SD replaced.

I am the other way. I want the Ravensburger Waltz to actually be danced to a waltz. You can be creative with the rest of the program.

The SD is like a school assignment. If the assignment is to write a poem, you do not write a political op-ed or a novella and claim it is a poem. If you don't, there should be penalties.
 
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WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Interesting and I understand you but I hope they don´t get penalized because it is a nice program and I got bored with the typical waltzes so I think it is great the teams can choose other type of music.

I don't think any of us who are objecting the SD are demanding they break out the Strauss and ball gowns and tuxedos. But it would be nice if the Ravensburger Waltz was actually skated to, you know, a waltz beat. And that they incorporate a full stop--not a momentary pause--before the partial step sequence. If everyone else is expected to follow the rules, then why shouldn't they? Fair's fair (what can I say? I'm a very Libran Libra!).
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
http://www.ice-dance.com/main/technical-reference/dance-patterns-descriptions/ravensburger-waltz

The Ravensburger is supposed to be skated to 3/4 time at 198 beats per minute.

3672 RAVENSBURGER WALTZ (DIAMOND DANCE TEST) Music Tempo Pattern Duration - Waltz 3/4 - 66 measures of 3 beats per minute - 198 beats per minute - Optional - The time required to skate 2 sequences is 58 sec. The Ravensburger Waltz should be skated with the character of a Viennese Waltz.


A strong waltz feeling is achieved by a continuous, lilting knee action accenting counts 1 and 4, and by stressing the 2 + 1 count of many of the steps.

Even if an SD music penalty is not called, choosing 6/8 time is just asking for timing errors to occur.

Plus there is no extra 'space/time' for accents to show well, so that the characteristic Viennese Waltz lilting character can be easily achieved.


Plus the important event for Hubbell and Donohue is US championships, and US Dance has always tried to be more sticklers for traditional dance timing and character of the dance considerations than the European federations.

If they go this way, they are likely to be beaten in the Nats SD by Hawayek and Baker and perhaps Cannuscio & McManus as well.
 
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blancanieves

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
Come on guys. H/D just moved to Quebec and started training there in early June. It would have taken a couple of weeks at least before they chose music, had it cut and then choreographed the program. So, you are looking at a very new SD and FD. The team that beat them in the FD didnt have a competition after Canadian Nationals so they have had months longer to practice the waltz pattern and their FD. P/I moved to Quebec at the same time as H/D so their program has the same amount of mileage on it as H/D. As I wrote regarding G/P I am impressed they are even presenting their programs at this time of year.

You are being way too rational ;) For teams who competed into late March and beyond, of course the programs in early August are to be works in progress. In fact, the D/L teams were being monitored by an ISU technical advisor at this competition. This competition was in effect a working session, not a quest for medals. Champs Camp, in a couple of weeks, will continue to give direction to help shape the programs. Let's you and I relax and enjoy the process. I think both programs are extremely promising.
 

blancanieves

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 3, 2012
ie Madi and Zach's FD costume-Madi's costume was never intended to be worn in competition, it is a sample of a leotard concept to see if it was possible to skate the elements with these details. Hence, it is not the final dye concept, nor is it a complete dress. The skirt is just a practice skirt she put on over the leotard because the coaches wanted to see it in competition. Costumes for both programs are still in discussion.

It is an interesting idea, but I'm glad they're still debating it. The poncho-like cut on the back and the light color of the fabric obstructed the view of any articulation of the upper body. If she needs to remain a winged creature, maybe they could have the wings run the length of the arms, from wrist to shoulder, without covering the back. It's a thought.

Thank for the insight.
 

beebee51

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Country
United-States
I agree with what WeakAnkles and Doris said just up thread. I thought the ISU's directive last season, to do a traditional paso, made for increasingly more boring SD competitions as the season progressed. I don't want to see every couple dancing the Ravensburger as if they are at a grand ball--that would also be tedious. But come on now, it is important for the pattern dance to be in the proper character. Hubbell and Donohue's SD did not come close imo. Also, nobody is mentioning the team (Fenero and Robledo IIRC) who had a Latin SD. It sounded like they somehow achieved a waltz beat, but it was just as wrong as H/D, maybe worse.

There were many teams at LPIDC who had interesting non-traditional choices of music, but the waltz character was unmistakeable. I actually found myself favoring these programs. Bottom line, I want to clearly see a waltz, not have to rationalize why it is one. I wish the ISU would agree with me.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Watching the FD a number of times I've got to say its grown on me. I get what they're going for; I like it, very zen. As to how they'll stack up against everyone else we'll find out soon enough when everyone reveals their material, however they should be very proud of the strides they have made. Why couldn't this be achieved with Krylova and Co?

OTOH, IMHO, the SD still feels like a beautiful exhibition. It is beautiful to watch as a piece of art but I expect there will be changes. To my untrained eye there wasn't a waltz pulsation and there wasn't a change of rhythm. Are they allowed to sandwich the twizzles between the step sequences, I'm not sure about that. They also didn't have a clear pause. That score they received now seems completely bogus, PI seemed to follow the guidelines more carefully and IMHO it made for a more engaging dance even if it was a little rough around the edges. I hope H/D address these issues soon, otherwise they may be heavily penalized on the GP circuit.

Now I am really excited to see the other elite teams :biggrin:
 
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semosk8tfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Country
United-States
I found their SD to be hauntingly beautiful but now I am concerned with all the talk upthread about the 6/8 signature being an issue. I hope that if it is an issue with officials that is noted early in the season and not allowed to slide until a major competition later in the year. (The fact that a team can perform elements or skate to music all season and be fine and then suddenly be told NO drives me crazy and is fodder for a different thread)
 
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